Being from St James, get your car to Vette Docs right up the road in Amityville.

The A&A s/c will make waaaaay more power than an E-force. As you are already saying that big power isnt in the cards, there isnt going to be a reason to pay more for less power.

Its quiet and lights up tires at any RPM.

 

The ZR1 cam is designed for a supercharged engine.You don't put a a cam with a profile designed for a supercharged engine in,unless you plan on adding a supercharger. IMHO

 

The FI world has done a good job convincing the world that ALL cams drive like crap other than the ZR1 cam. I was in a car today that has LG's 228/232 cam (which LG got 493rwhp on an LS3) and I couldnt believe it was cammed. There was hardly any lope and not a hint of driveability issues. His mods list was headers, cam, UD pulley, and a vararam. The total cost was 4k and it had no downside. It has no belt issues or added weight to the front of the car.

An LS3 at 500rwhp or less will drive great. It takes a 4 degree overlap cam to hit that. Thats not going to drive poorly or even marginal. The LG cam in question is 2 degrees overlap and drives perfect. Get a ride in a cammed car before you buy into the cam opinions you read all the time.

Here is a 228/232 cam. Please tell me the downside after watching. The mileage BS and driveability woes are 100% false. This cam makes 490 in an LS3. skip to 1 min 20 seconds for a quiet exhaust note on a warmed up car after a minute on. The car gets 30mpg through 4.10 gears:

 

If you choose the cam route I highly suggest you drive a car with the same or similar cam profile to the one you are thinking of purchasing to make sure it fits your driving style. One man's mild is another man's wild.

As for the posted video with the "Instant Fuel Mileage" testimonial of 30mpg... I think all of us know we can get phenomenal "Instant Fuel Mileage" numbers...it means nothing. I think I can probably show you a video of my car (cam, headers, tune and supercharger) getting an Instant Fuel Mileage number of 99mpg...coming down the interstate off ramp.

 

Thanks for the props Jason Bob give us a call Monday, we will set you up with the right combo for drivability and performance.

Ed M

 

Ok -- decision made. I am going with the cam setup as the sc is over the top for what I want (sorry FI guys). I understand that the ZR1 cam is too mild for this so what should I go with that is mild with great driveability/longevity? Thanks for the advise again.

 

I just did this alst week with my 08 LS3.

There was a lot of suggestions coming to me but I knew what I wanted. I enen considered a ZO6 or ZR1 cam... But went a more fun route.

I neeed a long lasting cam upgrade, not too wild but enough to make me like it.

I went with a comp cam from Texas Speed. After speaking to the guy down there he advised me to get a mild cam, new springs and rods.

my specs are 225/230 with a 113 LSA

First off the power if amazing and makes me feel like I have a new car.

the Lope is not overwhelming but enough for people to know it is not stock.

With the tune I should net 60 RWHP from this upgrade.

Keep us posted

 

As a further explanation of the efficiency of N/A cars over FI, it stands to reason that if FI burns 10% more fuel at WOT, it isnt nearly as efficient.

I got 29.8 mpg dividing miles driven by gallons purchased on my 11.4:1 compression H/C C6 on a 1075 mile one way road trip to Phenix City AL from Franklin Square NY. That was head/cam/4.10's. Due to parasitic losses, S/C cant come close.

H/C cars mileage are always going to be higher than stock economy as is usually the case with higher compression properly tuned cars. In over 100 cam installs, I have never once seen mileage drop. The vast majority increased fuel economy due to compression bumps if heads were swaped. Better flowing heads and higher compression always raises fuel economy. A compression bump is 6 hours labor and 200 bucks for gaskets and bolts. When Powrlabs did his engine build and dropped compression for more boost, his fuel economy dropped like a rock. He then raised it back up because it was so overdone.

For the rest that actually get a ride in a car that isnt overcammed, you will see that mild is definitely how you would describe a 228 cam making 490rwhp on an LS3. Since it doesnt lose boost pressure on shifts a 490rwhp M6 car will produce better 1/4 mile track results than a similar powered FI car. Paying 7000 bucks for an overpriced E-force if you plan on only 500 to 550rwhp, will produce a slower car. Cammed LS3s are in the 10.6 to 10.8 range for 1/2 the price.

Go for a ride in a cammed car instead of listening to FI car owners looking to bash everything they dont own to justify. Only the biggest nastiest 16 degree overlap cams will drive with some hiccups. A small 228 or 230ish cam has zero downsides and I have one in my FI car and not a single person has said it drives anything but perfect. Soooooo many guys have heard the BS only to say there is no downside once they get the facts straight with first hand experience.

If the money is taken into account, I charge 2k for a shortblock swap. If you buy a 416 or 427 LS3 based stroker from Hinson for 5k, with install its under 8k total (springs, cam, and better timing chain) and will make 525/500 to the wheels with a 224 cam and the 700rpm idle, economy, and driveability are indistiguishable from stock.

 

A 224/230 114+2 (similar to an ECS blower cam) makes 480rwhp and has almost no lope to speak of. Drives stock-no bucking/surging. I had this as my first cam on my last 2 corvettes. Its tough to tell its cammed. I would bump compression to 11.4:1 for awesome economy too. Raising compression makes all cams drive better as they act like they're in a bigger displacement. Aside from the common sense info already posted it stands to reason that since FI burns 10% more fuel at WOT that it is grossly less efficient than N/A if average HP produced is the same.

This is an off the shelf cam from comp.

Its a XER273HR.

I cant see paying 7000 bucks for a S/C to make the same result performance wise. FI cars under 550rwhp will not be any faster due to boost pressure losses upon shifting as explained in the past so clearly by Max at Cartek and other shops. To justify FI costs, you need to run 600rwhp or higher.

Cammed cars add no weight for the extra power they make.

If its a DIY install, its 1200 bucks and that includes a UD pulley and a better timing chain as all high power cars should run. FI cars running stock chains are a downside. Use the HD chain from Katech. Add a set of headers and a CAI and you have a high 10 sec car.

 

Thanks for raising the performance bar for so many

 

Superchargers are fun, easy, and reversible.

 

Jason,
Thanks for the advise on the cam combo to use. I think your suggestion is right on. I don't want much of a lope and driveability/longevity are a must. I will look into the XER272HR from Pro Comp. Will I need to change the springs also with this cam?

Thanks,
Bob

 

You're talking about two VERY different price brackets.

Supercharger will give you more power, no doubt about it.

Cam will give a good power boost for about 1/3 the cost and you'll have a GREAT sounding car with a good lope (if desired).

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about the reversible aspect of a S/C. You can sell the kit off with minimal effort to remove it. This is important especially since many people wont even consider buying a modded car.

A very cost effective ECS kit that is 5200-5500 or so will fetch about 3800 used when you go to sell it. ECS kits that used a BAP are easily reversible.

If you buy the E-force with the Z06 pump, it wil not be cost effective to remove the pump so factor that in on selling the kit.

 

You need new springs.

 

As always good points Spin, and I agree heat soak and boost pressure losses during shifts are a big handicap for F/I set ups. As you said, a H/C and F/I car making the same or even similar HP will have the H/C car out on top. You need to run Meth on F/I to combat the heat soak and at least 30-50 hp for the boost pressure losses on a manual. Auto F/I will be faster as the minimal pressure losses during shifting.

This being said there are two distinct F/I advantages, one already covered is the ability to remove the equipment before sale. The other is the expandability of Centrifugals. The H/C set up will be close to a maxed out set up, with a Vortech/Paxton/Procharger you are just getting started. I've seen very few Centri base kits making only 500 whp.

 

thanks all for the replies

 

 

I guess I'm a little confused on the Boost lost during shift for supercharged applications. my magnuson boost up right away!! And the added low end Torque is great for the heavy 3800lb GTO that its in. With flat Torque curve of a Positive Displacement supercharger and instant boost ability I would find it hard to see a equally chassis/geared/RWHP N/A car run neck and neck with a postive displacement supercharged car.

Heres a little video proof to prove what im talking about:

EDIT: I can't post the link due to the rules but search youtube: "L99 supercharged vs LS3 Head Cam"
(The Cammed camaro should have a gearing advantage with the 3.73's and would probly dyno higher being an M6 vs A6.)


Point is: There plenty of different ways to make power. Nitrous is easy to install and remove and very cost effective if you want to consider that route. There is no waiting Turbo LAG, very little added weight, BUT youll have to watch you bottle pressure and keep the bottle full.
Superchargers are expensive but my GTO got the same Highway mileage BEFORE my M112H and After my M112H (on stock pulleys). Yes, Heat Soak is a major PITA but there are way to combat it.
Cams are great and the right setup will yeild some impressive numbers with decent drivability. I try to avoid most "SHOP CAR" numbers and some tend to be more of a marketing ploy and a bit inflated. See if you can find someone on a forum who has installed the same parts themselves and tuned the car else where. But a cam setup is not easily redone and put back to stock.

In my own Vette I would never consider putting a Positive Displacement blower on the car as it doesnt need GOBS of low end torque to get the car moving (weight factor as my GTO is a pretty heavy) and if you've ever drove a PD blower car they are VERY hard to hook up on street tires! I would rather opt for the Centri blower line of Superchargers for my own Vette.

But do some serious research before you pick your poison!! See if there are some local guys with LSx platforms boosted, sprayed, or cammed for you to go for a ride with.

Just my $0.02: The LS3 Heads perform AWESOME with a little boost!!

 

But the Yellow cammed car would have significant more weight since it is a Transformer unless it was made of Unobtaineum which is very light.