--Important read-- Engine Oil Tech
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2008
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Sharing here as I caught this thread late.
Concur with both the thoughts above that higher ZDDP is needed in some applications and that modern oils have better fluid film strength than historic oil (though synthetics have been around for decades now).
But, you can get both:
AMSOIL Z-ROD 10w30 Synthetic Motor Oil (Product Code ZRTQT)
(zinc – 1440 ppm, phosphorus 1320 ppm)
This oil was designed for flat tappet cam engine which require higher ZDDP than allowed by the API for current spec oils (800 ppm max phosphorus). Though desiged for flat tappet cam engines, the good basestock and extra ZDDP helps in high demand applications such as those discussed in this thread. The Z-ROD is very similar to AMSOIL's Dominator Racing 10w30 I use at the track, but it has enough detergents for 3-5k miles (or one year whichever first) whereas I change the race oil about every 500 miles.
Jeff was concerned about the cats. My thoughts:
I personally think the concern about phosphorus damaging cats is a little overblown. The cats don't actually get "damaged", rather the catalytic conversion they are supposed to do is inhibited. Essentially the phosphorus "poisons" the cats. The EPA mandates emissions systems last 120k plus miles these days, so the current limit of 800 ppm impacts the cats over significantly more miles than most Vette owners will ever see. Another consideration is that the volatility of oils varies. Oils with low volatility (like AMSOIL) will lose less oil through the exhaust, thus less phosphorus will get carried to the cats. API SN spec allows up to 15% loss in a 1 hour test per ASTM D5800. In a 2008 test, AMSOIL's API spec 10w30 had 5.7% loss, well below the limit (Mobil 1 Extended Peformance 8.2% and Chevron Supreme 14.75% as comparison points from the same test). Additionally, though cats are not cheap, they are less expensive than engines. I'd use the appropriate oil for the engine and deal with the cats when (if) they didn't meet a state mandated test. Personally, if I had a modded street/track car, I'd use the Z-ROD. For strictly track, I use the Dominator Racing 10w30. Both independent of whether I had cats or not (and noting that SCCA T1 required cats until a few years ago).
Jeff
Last edited by Justasheet; Nov 11, 2012 at 09:30 AM.
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From: King George VA
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C66 Racing #66 NASA ST2, SCCA T2
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C66 Racing #66 NASA ST2, SCCA T2
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AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (Members buy at Wholesale - a savings of about 25%)
Team Owner
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From: Far NW 'burbs of Chicago
St. Jude Donor '13
Racer
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From: Brownsville Texas
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: S.D. CA
I think the belief is most of the the Mobil line up is PAO based with added Esters and the 0W-40 has some POE in its base. Key word is "base"...I can't back this up...this is just my opinion based on the limited searches I've done.
On the Mobil website they tell you that Ester is in their Oil...but they will not say that it is an Ester Oil (which agrees with what Anthony is saying).
The botom line is most of the current oil out there is designed for stock engines driven at the speed limit and rarely seeing high revs.
If you drive hard, drag race, autocross, hpde race or have modified your engine internally, look for a higher performance oil to help protect your engine.
The cam I purchased from Schneider Racing came with an "Extreme Pressure Cam Lube"...its thick like a paste...solid at room temp.
Last edited by sallen619; Nov 12, 2012 at 12:33 AM. Reason: add
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,347
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From: Apache Junction AZ
You are correct...
I think the belief is most of the the Mobil line up is PAO based with added Esters and the 0W-40 has some POE in its base. Key word is "base"...I can't back this up...this is just my opinion based on the limited searches I've done.
On the Mobil website they tell you that Ester is in their Oil...but they will not say that it is an Ester Oil (which agrees with what Anthony is saying).
The botom line is most of the current oil out there is designed for stock engines driven at the speed limit and rarely seeing high revs.
If you drive hard, drag race, autocross, hpde race or have modified your engine internally, look for a higher performance oil to help protect your engine.
The cam I purchased from Schneider Racing came with an "Extreme Pressure Cam Lube"...its thick like a paste...solid at room temp.
I think the belief is most of the the Mobil line up is PAO based with added Esters and the 0W-40 has some POE in its base. Key word is "base"...I can't back this up...this is just my opinion based on the limited searches I've done.
On the Mobil website they tell you that Ester is in their Oil...but they will not say that it is an Ester Oil (which agrees with what Anthony is saying).
The botom line is most of the current oil out there is designed for stock engines driven at the speed limit and rarely seeing high revs.
If you drive hard, drag race, autocross, hpde race or have modified your engine internally, look for a higher performance oil to help protect your engine.
The cam I purchased from Schneider Racing came with an "Extreme Pressure Cam Lube"...its thick like a paste...solid at room temp.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...Ester_Oil.aspx
I ask them if Mobil 0W-40 was a group 5 Ester based oil and they responded: "Mobil does not discuss motor oil formulation information as it is considered proprietary and not available to the general public.
--
Thank you for choosing ExxonMobil products.
If you need further assistance, please contact ExxonMobil at 1-800-ASK-MOBIL"
-MJ
BJK
Last edited by 07MontRedcp; Nov 13, 2012 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Clarification
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From: King George VA
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...g-hype-19.html
You'd have to read the first 12 pages to get the background, but the summary is that Lubrecon who worked in the industry had been claiming Mobil 1 to be PAO (Group IV) basestock until post 222.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2007
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so whats a good street oil for a cammed car?
Was thinking of going with AMSOlL. The shop that built my motor recommended I run 20w-50. Was looking at this one AMSOIL Z-ROD 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRF)
Was thinking of going with AMSOlL. The shop that built my motor recommended I run 20w-50. Was looking at this one AMSOIL Z-ROD 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRF)
Last edited by keevo54; Nov 12, 2012 at 12:52 PM.
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From: King George VA
That said, 50 grade seems high - did they mod the bearings? If the bearings are stock, I'd personally consider the Z-ROD 10w30 which has a viscosity more suited to the stock bearing clearances. FYI, I use 10w30 at the track in my stock internal LS6 (but run with modified PCU, headers, no cats/ mufflers and with higher than stock rev limit).
Either way, more than happy to get AMSOIL products for forum members at dealer wholesale pricing, about 25% below retail, via the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program. Drop me a PM if interested.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2012
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Hey guys,
Great read. I always enjoy a good oil debate
One question that has occurred to me. How many of you with a Z06 or GS are seeing really cool oil temps in the winter time with street driving? Wouldn't that have an effect on which winter oil weight you select? I'm seeing ~140-~160 on the highway.
Has anyone seen any issues with the oil running really "cold" all winter?
Thoughts?
Jason
Great read. I always enjoy a good oil debate
One question that has occurred to me. How many of you with a Z06 or GS are seeing really cool oil temps in the winter time with street driving? Wouldn't that have an effect on which winter oil weight you select? I'm seeing ~140-~160 on the highway.
Has anyone seen any issues with the oil running really "cold" all winter?
Thoughts?
Jason
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,912
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From: S.D. CA
Post 222 (page 12) of this early 2012 thread would indicate otherwise:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...g-hype-19.html
You'd have to read the first 12 pages to get the background, but the summary is that Lubrecon who worked in the industry had been claiming Mobil 1 to be PAO (Group IV) basestock until post 222.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...g-hype-19.html
You'd have to read the first 12 pages to get the background, but the summary is that Lubrecon who worked in the industry had been claiming Mobil 1 to be PAO (Group IV) basestock until post 222.
I believe that the Mobil 0W-40 is the "old school" formula (ie. better quality. I believe that the rest of the line up probably is the cheper base stock.
With that said, I will be looking for a higher performance oil the the factory fill.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
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From: Bristol raceway area
I run Mobil 1 0w-40 in our C6 and C5. I am very satisfied with it. This formula has all the protection i want and it is $6.47 per quart at walmart. Excellent oil.
I have several C5 and C6 friends. One C5 has 244,000 miles on it and he has always used Mobil1 5w-30 with no problems. Another car has 151,000 miles on it and he has only used Mobil1 5w-30.
I have always liked Mobil1. Won't use anything else.
I have several C5 and C6 friends. One C5 has 244,000 miles on it and he has always used Mobil1 5w-30 with no problems. Another car has 151,000 miles on it and he has only used Mobil1 5w-30.
I have always liked Mobil1. Won't use anything else.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2010
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From: South Central Kansas
I run Mobil 1 0w-40 in our C6 and C5. I am very satisfied with it. This formula has all the protection i want and it is $6.47 per quart at walmart. Excellent oil.
I have several C5 and C6 friends. One C5 has 244,000 miles on it and he has always used Mobil1 5w-30 with no problems. Another car has 151,000 miles on it and he has only used Mobil1 5w-30.
I have always liked Mobil1. Won't use anything else.
I have several C5 and C6 friends. One C5 has 244,000 miles on it and he has always used Mobil1 5w-30 with no problems. Another car has 151,000 miles on it and he has only used Mobil1 5w-30.
I have always liked Mobil1. Won't use anything else.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 4
I run Mobil 1 0w-40 in our C6 and C5. I am very satisfied with it. This formula has all the protection i want and it is $6.47 per quart at walmart. Excellent oil.
I have several C5 and C6 friends. One C5 has 244,000 miles on it and he has always used Mobil1 5w-30 with no problems. Another car has 151,000 miles on it and he has only used Mobil1 5w-30.
I have always liked Mobil1. Won't use anything else.
I have several C5 and C6 friends. One C5 has 244,000 miles on it and he has always used Mobil1 5w-30 with no problems. Another car has 151,000 miles on it and he has only used Mobil1 5w-30.
I have always liked Mobil1. Won't use anything else.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 7
From: Bristol raceway area
I don't buy oil not available on the shelves.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2008
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Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Bristol raceway area
Bob