Realistic hp vs. traction?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 899
Likes: 209
From: Louisville KY
i am simply at full bolt on now w/ fast 102 and ported tb,on coilovers....it hooks well with my kuhmo xs tires. would love to boost to around 550 rwhp if It can be usable power (all this 650-1000hp) is silly,unless you are doing the texas mile or possibly drag racing,imho....ive seen many 500 hp cars take down some 600+ hp cars in a real world situation due to traction....im not interested in doing a smoke show at every press of the throttle.
I couldn't agree more. When I finished my modifications to my 08 LS3 it was at 499 HP & 455/TQ. It still had the stock Good Year run flats and the car was dangerous. I used Spin's traction monster formuls and had a set of 8.5" front rims widened to 11" and installed 305/35/18 Nitto 555R2"s on the rear. Great tire in warm weather that will hold at my HP level on the street. I really don't like the way the car looks with 18" rear rims. The bummer is I can't get a Nitto 555R2 in a 305/19 size. I have a set of LG rims which are 11/19 on the rear and I use 305 Nitto Invos on the car in colder weather or for longer milage trips and swap thr rears out for the 18's when I want to get serious. Would like to find a 305/19 or possibly a 315/19 tire that is equal in traction & wear to the Nitto 555R2. No drag radials and I don't like my tires sticking out past the wheelwells and can't afford to install a wide body so tire size is limited to 305 to 315 width.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Likes: 112
From: ocean springs mississippi
What cam are you running? Heads? Drivability?
I think TQ is a bigger issue than HP. I'm at 470hp and 420tq with a cam/bolt on GS. I run NItto NT05 street tire and she does fine when its warm out.
I think 500rwhp and 450tq would do fine on the street/tires. IMO any more would need a Drag Radial to stick at low MPH.
I agree with 68, Drag radials suck on the corners. Thats the biggest reason why I went with a cam instead of nitrous. I didn't want to run DRs.
I think 500rwhp and 450tq would do fine on the street/tires. IMO any more would need a Drag Radial to stick at low MPH.
I agree with 68, Drag radials suck on the corners. Thats the biggest reason why I went with a cam instead of nitrous. I didn't want to run DRs.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 899
Likes: 209
From: Louisville KY
The cam is a Spin Monster special. It is a Comp Cam part # 146-000-11, grind # LS2 3016R/3727R
230 int. duration, .613 lift, int. CL 112 deg.
234 exh. duration, .598 lift, exh. CL 116 deg.
114 LSA + 2 deg. advance
great cam for LS3 with stock ports, no driving issues.
Mods to the car:
230/234 Comp cam & Comp valve spring kit, Comp push rods
ported stock LS3 intake manifold (Jeremy Fomato)
ported stock TB (Jeremy Fomato)
Heads milled .022 & .040 Cometic head gaskets (11.5/1 comp.)
stock unmodified ports, good competition valve job
stock pistons fly cut for cam with milled heads & thinner head gaskets
rocker arm trunyon upgrade (comp Cams kit)
KWIS timing chain
kooks 1 3/4 headers with catted midpipe
mufflers, stock dual mode
CAI, Vararam with power wedge
160 deg. thermostat
ATI 10% under drive harmonic balancer
good dyno tune
The blueprint for this build is written up under a spin monster thread from 3 or so years ago. Lot of dyno results from various guys for this spin monster build along with opinions on how street friendly it is. I personally couldn't be more satisfied with Spin's formula for high HP LS3's using stock heads.
230 int. duration, .613 lift, int. CL 112 deg.
234 exh. duration, .598 lift, exh. CL 116 deg.
114 LSA + 2 deg. advance
great cam for LS3 with stock ports, no driving issues.
Mods to the car:
230/234 Comp cam & Comp valve spring kit, Comp push rods
ported stock LS3 intake manifold (Jeremy Fomato)
ported stock TB (Jeremy Fomato)
Heads milled .022 & .040 Cometic head gaskets (11.5/1 comp.)
stock unmodified ports, good competition valve job
stock pistons fly cut for cam with milled heads & thinner head gaskets
rocker arm trunyon upgrade (comp Cams kit)
KWIS timing chain
kooks 1 3/4 headers with catted midpipe
mufflers, stock dual mode
CAI, Vararam with power wedge
160 deg. thermostat
ATI 10% under drive harmonic balancer
good dyno tune
The blueprint for this build is written up under a spin monster thread from 3 or so years ago. Lot of dyno results from various guys for this spin monster build along with opinions on how street friendly it is. I personally couldn't be more satisfied with Spin's formula for high HP LS3's using stock heads.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
i have an 05 a4 don't have a real hp number but at 100 mph floor it and smoke the stock run flat z51 tire and fishtail hard loosing control cant pass
but with hoosier drs or mt drs its good
but with hoosier drs or mt drs its good
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,473
Likes: 297
From: Orange Park FL
Dont forget to factor in the gear you will be running. I have less than 500 but the 390 gear and MN12 tranny make first and second only usable at half throttle with Nitto 555's.
Great that you are planning ahead
Great that you are planning ahead
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,442
Likes: 228
From: Atlanta Ga
I have 495whp and 430 tq...Big Cam and 1 7/8 headers..
I have the Mich PS2's....they seem to hold fine from about 40-50 mph ...lower then that w/no help (traction control) ..requires me to lay off a little till I get a little higher in the MPH range...
I have the Mich PS2's....they seem to hold fine from about 40-50 mph ...lower then that w/no help (traction control) ..requires me to lay off a little till I get a little higher in the MPH range...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 899
Likes: 209
From: Louisville KY
On a warm day (80 & above with warm pavement) from a roll the 305 Nitto 555R2's will hold and the car just jumps, even in 1st gear.
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Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,436
Likes: 4
From: Everett Wa
With my car the whole approach has been to take the handling up to the point I need more power. At present with poly bushings, feather light coil overs and z51 sways running Toyo 888 I will bog the car on tight corners and launch. As much as I would like to run A6's it would be even worse. I am thinking right around 450-500 rwhp is the sweet spot. Of course a Z51 tranny would be a bit better than the base.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 899
Likes: 209
From: Louisville KY
With my car the whole approach has been to take the handling up to the point I need more power. At present with poly bushings, feather light coil overs and z51 sways running Toyo 888 I will bog the car on tight corners and launch. As much as I would like to run A6's it would be even worse. I am thinking right around 450-500 rwhp is the sweet spot. Of course a Z51 tranny would be a bit better than the base.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,331
Likes: 18
From: Missouri City Texas
LOTS of things are better than Invos, lol. The Toyo's are an R compound tire and will perform incredibly well in dry weather but will last probably 25-30% as long as the Invo's (I'd guess 7000-9000 miles doing 50/50 city/highway driving) and definitely will be scarier in wet weather.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 899
Likes: 209
From: Louisville KY
LOTS of things are better than Invos, lol. The Toyo's are an R compound tire and will perform incredibly well in dry weather but will last probably 25-30% as long as the Invo's (I'd guess 7000-9000 miles doing 50/50 city/highway driving) and definitely will be scarier in wet weather.
My problem isn't that the 305 Nitto 555R2's don't provide enough grip, it's that they are not made in a 19" rim size that fits my 11" wide rims. I don't like the 18" rims I have to use with the 555R2's. I wanted to know if the Toyo proxys are equivalent in grip to the Nitto 555R2's.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 4
From: Rockaway NJ
I had PS2's on mine at 550rwhp... from a stop it didn't stick that great on a normal day, but it was decent... Once I got 655rwhp/630rwtq forget about it... I will lose every time from a stop light (well until I got my DR's)
I would say stick with around 500 to the wheels if your not interested in a DR tire and want quicker launches
I would say stick with around 500 to the wheels if your not interested in a DR tire and want quicker launches
Pro
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 602
Likes: 32
From: Old Bridge, NJ
I've seen from a couple people in this thread that they don't like their 18s in the rear. I was planning to go this route and am now wondering if it is worth the investment. Is there anyone reading this thread who wants to sell a pair of widened 18" polished C6 five spokes? I'd rather buy a used set in case I don't end up liking the results. PM me if you have a set.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 899
Likes: 209
From: Louisville KY
I've seen from a couple people in this thread that they don't like their 18s in the rear. I was planning to go this route and am now wondering if it is worth the investment. Is there anyone reading this thread who wants to sell a pair of widened 18" polished C6 five spokes? I'd rather buy a used set in case I don't end up liking the results. PM me if you have a set.
There is nothing wrong with the 18" widened rims functionally. You will have far more choices for R rated competition tires with the 18" wheels than with 19" wheels. I just don't like the looks of the car with them. I will continue to use the 18" widened rims with the nitto 555R2's in the summer if I cannot get an equal 19" tire that will fit properly on my 19" rear rims. Just can't seem to be able to find anyone that knows for sure if the Toyo R888's are equal to the Nitto's for traction. Neither tire is good for more than 6000 to 7000 miles which I am fine with.
Last edited by jstewart; Apr 4, 2013 at 01:10 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Likes: 112
From: ocean springs mississippi
PM Spin Monster. I know he had a set at one time but not sure they were polished. He knows some guys that had their 18" front rims widened to 11" so may bee he can help you.
There is nothing wrong with the 18" widened rims functionally. You will have far more choices for R rated competition tires with the 18" wheels than with 19" wheels. I just don't like the looks of the car with them. I will continue to use the 18" widened rims with the nitto 555R2's in the summer if I cannot get an equal 19" tire that will fit properly on my 19" rear rims. Just can't seem to be able to find anyone that knows for sure if the Toyo R888's are equal to the Nitto's for traction. Neither tire is good for more than 6000 to 7000 miles which I am fine with.
There is nothing wrong with the 18" widened rims functionally. You will have far more choices for R rated competition tires with the 18" wheels than with 19" wheels. I just don't like the looks of the car with them. I will continue to use the 18" widened rims with the nitto 555R2's in the summer if I cannot get an equal 19" tire that will fit properly on my 19" rear rims. Just can't seem to be able to find anyone that knows for sure if the Toyo R888's are equal to the Nitto's for traction. Neither tire is good for more than 6000 to 7000 miles which I am fine with.