cai improvement
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
I have stated many times comparison within 10 ft DA almost 5 mph and 5/10s in the 1/4 mile, and how many of the top cars on the fast list have Vararam, just about all of them
$400 dollars for that big of a gain
and look how much faster you can pass
$400 dollars for that big of a gain and look how much faster you can pass
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 968
Likes: 8
The gains from RAM AIR are more from the air being "Cooler" than the actual ramming effect.
So the gains you get will be from the fact that the air is COOLER... not because its "RAMMING"
The intakes that flow the largest amount of unrestricted cool air with the least amount of turbulence will aid in making the most HP!
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
So the gains you get will be from the fact that the air is COOLER... not because its "RAMMING"
The intakes that flow the largest amount of unrestricted cool air with the least amount of turbulence will aid in making the most HP!
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
On a Suzuki M109 the 2 stock filters flowed in the 40's CFM combined if I recall correctly, it's been too long since so I don't recall my numbers exactly. Cool air, even when tuned for it, makes a slight to negligible difference. Increase the CFM of the filters/un-restrict the air flow, and up the HP went. Max (increased) CFM/air flow for a filter which topped out the HP gains on a tuned stock M109 engine was in the mid-700's CFM filter. That was a huge filter sizing change over OEM, along with very large change in the intake system airbox. That large of a CFM change also topped out the f.i.'s. to the mid 90's (percent). Beyond the mid-700's CFM/airbox mod/no airbox, there was no more gain, as the engine had topped out for that type of intake mod.
Same for ZX14's, blown 14's, etc.
I suspect it a general rough 'rule'.
Last edited by J Christensen; Nov 3, 2013 at 12:28 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 823
Likes: 7
From: Rosewood Heights IL
I largely agree. After 100's if custom bike tunes when testing and experimenting with air filters, intakes and exhausts, the more free the filter/unrestricted intake/higher CFM the more the HP. Cooler air helped a very small portion.. = about nill.
On a Suzuki M109 the 2 stock filters flowed in the 40's CFM combined if I recall correctly, it's been too long since so I don't recall my numbers exactly. Cool air, even when tuned for it, makes a slight to negligible difference. Increase the CFM of the filters/un-restrict the air flow, and up the HP went. Max (increased) CFM/air flow for a filter which topped out the HP gains on a tuned stock M109 engine was in the mid-700's CFM filter. That was a huge filter sizing change over OEM, along with very large change in the intake system airbox. That large of a CFM change also topped out the f.i.'s. to the mid 90's (percent). Beyond the mid-700's CFM/airbox mod/no airbox, there was no more gain, as the engine had topped out for that type of intake mod.
Same for ZX14's, blown 14's, etc.
I suspect it a general rough 'rule'.
Cool air in=lower IATs=more timing=more power.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
I largely agree. After 100's if custom bike tunes when testing and experimenting with air filters, intakes and exhausts, the more free the filter/unrestricted intake/higher CFM the more the HP. Cooler air helped a very small portion.. = about nill.
On a Suzuki M109 the 2 stock filters flowed in the 40's CFM combined if I recall correctly, it's been too long since so I don't recall my numbers exactly. Cool air, even when tuned for it, makes a slight to negligible difference. Increase the CFM of the filters/un-restrict the air flow, and up the HP went. Max (increased) CFM/air flow for a filter which topped out the HP gains on a tuned stock M109 engine was in the mid-700's CFM filter. That was a huge filter sizing change over OEM, along with very large change in the intake system airbox. That large of a CFM change also topped out the f.i.'s. to the mid 90's (percent). Beyond the mid-700's CFM/airbox mod/no airbox, there was no more gain, as the engine had topped out for that type of intake mod.
Same for ZX14's, blown 14's, etc.
I suspect it a general rough 'rule'.
On a Suzuki M109 the 2 stock filters flowed in the 40's CFM combined if I recall correctly, it's been too long since so I don't recall my numbers exactly. Cool air, even when tuned for it, makes a slight to negligible difference. Increase the CFM of the filters/un-restrict the air flow, and up the HP went. Max (increased) CFM/air flow for a filter which topped out the HP gains on a tuned stock M109 engine was in the mid-700's CFM filter. That was a huge filter sizing change over OEM, along with very large change in the intake system airbox. That large of a CFM change also topped out the f.i.'s. to the mid 90's (percent). Beyond the mid-700's CFM/airbox mod/no airbox, there was no more gain, as the engine had topped out for that type of intake mod.
Same for ZX14's, blown 14's, etc.
I suspect it a general rough 'rule'.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 11
From: Newport, RI
Yep, that's it. If you do back to back tests, I would suggest you do something more like 20-80 so you don't involve traction issues. I did controlled tests on a friend's '07 A6. He made 2 passes at 12.38 and then propped the shroud and he made 2 more at 12.20 & 12.21. He ran better with a Vararam, but it wasn't the same day.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,108
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
I believe it was IIRC. He is (and his car) very consistent. He had a few mods, but was hesitant to try a CAI until I showed him the benefit of colder air. He's currently running 11.4's with a Vararam and a few more mods.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,049
Likes: 330
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
[QUOTE=J Christensen;1585333359]I largely agree. After 100's if custom bike tunes when testing and experimenting with air filters, intakes and exhausts, the more free the filter/unrestricted intake/higher CFM the more the HP. Cooler air helped a very small portion.. = about nill.
See the part in Bold....... I don't know about bikes but I do know about cars. From that statement, You Sir need to get educated because that statement is as far away from being correct as you can get.
See the part in Bold....... I don't know about bikes but I do know about cars. From that statement, You Sir need to get educated because that statement is as far away from being correct as you can get.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,187
Likes: 239
From: Colorado
Yep, that's it. If you do back to back tests, I would suggest you do something more like 20-80 so you don't involve traction issues. I did controlled tests on a friend's '07 A6. He made 2 passes at 12.38 and then propped the shroud and he made 2 more at 12.20 & 12.21. He ran better with a Vararam, but it wasn't the same day.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,108
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
That sounds just about right. 18 hp for a free mod. Add in Bullets, and you have the ~ 460hp the C7 claims--if not more, on an otherwise stock C6. Another reason the '14 didn't interest me at all. Go for the Z51 '14, and you add the advantage of being 250 pounds lighter in a C6. Not saying it isn't better on the track, but it certainly isn't in a straight line.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,187
Likes: 239
From: Colorado
That's not 18 HP, it's .18 seconds quicker for the 1/4 mile. Mufflers are primarily for sound and rarely will add 4-6 HP. So don't expect a 430 HP C6 to match a C7 with just a couple small mods. Bone stock C7's have already posted better 1/4 mi times than the quickest C6 ever.
Where did you get your info? I've seen no test anywhere that shows the C7 to be faster than 12.2, other than wishful thinking on some magazines' part and Chevy's unsubstantiated claim. It is also 5mph slower top end, and a tenth slower 0-100 even being a tenth or so quicker 0-60, depending on what you read. Just look at the times on the Forum for quick--lightly modded C6s, and they eat the C7 like a grape. And they run on all 8 cylinders, another thing that turns me off on the C7--aside from its being butt ugly.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 15,678
Likes: 1,097
From: birmingham Alabama
St. Jude Donor '09 and '13
I have owned 18 Corvette's and I have had almost every air intake made to date. My 2006 C6 that I just bought has a VR. So I take it apart yesterday to check the filter and it is truly a ram air intake. And water is not an issue. I have not and will not run my C6 at the strip, but the car does seem to pull a little harder on the top end at freeway speeds. And you can buy one new for way under 400 bucks!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 968
Likes: 8
[QUOTE=ls1121;1585336324]
Well, those statement were in reference those bikes. I was posting it up here for part of the discussion to see how it related, or not. As it appears there is a difference between the two, those bikes -vs- C6's, as in the PCU pulling timing
in relation to the C6's... then it obviously does not apply. It's great to learn something new. That is what forums, discussions and discovery are all about = more education.
woohoo to you as well.
I largely agree. After 100's if custom bike tunes when testing and experimenting with air filters, intakes and exhausts, the more free the filter/unrestricted intake/higher CFM the more the HP. Cooler air helped a very small portion.. = about nill.
See the part in Bold....... I don't know about bikes but I do know about cars. From that statement, You Sir need to get educated because that statement is as far away from being correct as you can get.
See the part in Bold....... I don't know about bikes but I do know about cars. From that statement, You Sir need to get educated because that statement is as far away from being correct as you can get.
in relation to the C6's... then it obviously does not apply. It's great to learn something new. That is what forums, discussions and discovery are all about = more education.
woohoo to you as well.
Last edited by J Christensen; Nov 4, 2013 at 03:59 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 876
Likes: 116
From: HOMESTEAD FL
If you where to take the scoop and stick it out from the vehicle and plumb it directly to the throttle body it would only make the intake a true "COLD AIR INTAKE" there would be ZERO significant "RAMMING" effect to conclude "RAM AIR" is creating any gains what so ever.
HOWEVER, gains would still be made due to the COOLER AIR being drawn through the intake... The snake oil sales just get tiring, and the few who have no idea about air flow are easily swayed.
I'm in no way suggesting the VR is a bad intake... It may indeed be the best "COLD AIR INTAKE"... but its gains would 100% be due from COLD AIR and not RAM AIR. Suggesting its a "RAM AIR" intake is misleading and untrue/Unfounded.
If you want to call it ram air, please measure the boost created from the "RAM AIR" and post that number up for all to see... Please post your means of measurement as well.
Without posting the BOOST amount created by the "RAM AIR" all you have is a good cold air intake!
Sorry, It takes more then a sales pitch to mislead some of us.
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
HOWEVER, gains would still be made due to the COOLER AIR being drawn through the intake... The snake oil sales just get tiring, and the few who have no idea about air flow are easily swayed.
I'm in no way suggesting the VR is a bad intake... It may indeed be the best "COLD AIR INTAKE"... but its gains would 100% be due from COLD AIR and not RAM AIR. Suggesting its a "RAM AIR" intake is misleading and untrue/Unfounded.
If you want to call it ram air, please measure the boost created from the "RAM AIR" and post that number up for all to see... Please post your means of measurement as well.
Without posting the BOOST amount created by the "RAM AIR" all you have is a good cold air intake!
Sorry, It takes more then a sales pitch to mislead some of us.
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Last edited by AIR_RAM; Nov 4, 2013 at 06:02 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
If you where to take the scoop and stick it out from the vehicle and plumb it directly to the throttle body it would only make the intake a true "COLD AIR INTAKE" there would be ZERO significant "RAMMING" effect to conclude "RAM AIR" is creating any gains what so ever.
HOWEVER, gains would still be made due to the COOLER AIR being drawn through the intake... The snake oil sales just get tiring, and the few who have no idea about air flow are easily swayed.
I'm in no way suggesting the VR is a bad intake... It may indeed be the best "COLD AIR INTAKE"... but its gains would 100% be due from COLD AIR and not RAM AIR. Suggesting its a "RAM AIR" intake is misleading and untrue/Unfounded.
If you want to call it ram air, please measure the boost created from the "RAM AIR" and post that number up for all to see... Please post your means of measurement as well.
Without posting the BOOST amount created by the "RAM AIR" all you have is a good cold air intake!
Sorry, It takes more then a sales pitch to mislead some of us.
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
HOWEVER, gains would still be made due to the COOLER AIR being drawn through the intake... The snake oil sales just get tiring, and the few who have no idea about air flow are easily swayed.
I'm in no way suggesting the VR is a bad intake... It may indeed be the best "COLD AIR INTAKE"... but its gains would 100% be due from COLD AIR and not RAM AIR. Suggesting its a "RAM AIR" intake is misleading and untrue/Unfounded.
If you want to call it ram air, please measure the boost created from the "RAM AIR" and post that number up for all to see... Please post your means of measurement as well.
Without posting the BOOST amount created by the "RAM AIR" all you have is a good cold air intake!
Sorry, It takes more then a sales pitch to mislead some of us.
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 876
Likes: 116
From: HOMESTEAD FL
There are more variables that effect ET than air temp and DA... Perhaps you had less fuel in the tank, perhaps the engine temp was cooler... Perhaps the tires gripped better... Perhaps the track prep was better, perhaps perhaps perhaps...
The bottom line is that its impossible for you to have created ANY boost from the ramming effect... So, your gains where due to a better flowing intake providing more Non turbulent cool air than the previous... but not RAM AIR... Calling it RAM AIR is misleading... You clearly have a true "Cold Air Intake".
I had a 2002 Dodge Ram with a 4.7L engine... It would run 2MPH and .2 quicker ET by simply removing the air filter. So your gains are not so hard to believe with the intake swap...
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
The bottom line is that its impossible for you to have created ANY boost from the ramming effect... So, your gains where due to a better flowing intake providing more Non turbulent cool air than the previous... but not RAM AIR... Calling it RAM AIR is misleading... You clearly have a true "Cold Air Intake".
I had a 2002 Dodge Ram with a 4.7L engine... It would run 2MPH and .2 quicker ET by simply removing the air filter. So your gains are not so hard to believe with the intake swap...
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Last edited by AIR_RAM; Nov 4, 2013 at 06:42 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
There are more variables that effect ET than air temp and DA... Perhaps you had less fuel in the tank, perhaps the engine temp was cooler... Perhaps the tires gripped better... Perhaps the track prep was better, perhaps perhaps perhaps...
The bottom line is that its impossible for you to have created ANY boost from the ramming effect... So, your gains where due to a better flowing intake providing more Non turbulent cool air than the previous... but not RAM AIR... Calling it RAM AIR is misleading... You clearly have a true "Cold Air Intake".
I had a 2002 Dodge Ram with a 4.7L engine... It would run 2MPH and .2 quicker ET by simply removing the air filter. So your gains are not so hard to believe with the intake swap...
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
The bottom line is that its impossible for you to have created ANY boost from the ramming effect... So, your gains where due to a better flowing intake providing more Non turbulent cool air than the previous... but not RAM AIR... Calling it RAM AIR is misleading... You clearly have a true "Cold Air Intake".
I had a 2002 Dodge Ram with a 4.7L engine... It would run 2MPH and .2 quicker ET by simply removing the air filter. So your gains are not so hard to believe with the intake swap...
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 876
Likes: 116
From: HOMESTEAD FL
That was a first... It made me spit my drink out!
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 823
Likes: 7
From: Rosewood Heights IL
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
I hope to gain the Max with each mod, I ran 10.62 with bolt/ons then only 10.59 with cam, traction problems, and yes I believe you were, all the fast c6s have vararam