LS7 manifolds better than headers?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,049
Likes: 330
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Lets try and keep in on the Green. 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,475
Likes: 332
From: Port Arthur, Texas 77642
Before I make a purchase I calculate the value or ROI of any part or service to see how much money I'm paying for every horsepower and/or every ft lb of torque. In my opinion a tune always comes first as it usually shows good increases on dyno, on track and butt dyno giving better off idle throttle response and snappier through the revs. Say you pay $500 for tune and see 20rwhp gain that is $25/rwhp (Spend / rwhp = $/rwhp. If headers cost $2000 installed and retuned with 25rwhp gain your cost is $80/rwhp. Say you install centri-supercharger from A&A/ECS/ProCharger for $8000 and yield 160rwhp that is $50/rwhp (I factored in $6200 advertised installed/tuned price by forum vendor along with another $1800 twin disc clutch installed). 160rwhp is attainable by centri unit on pump gas only with plenty of clutch to spare. Obviously my numbers are estimates but pretty close to real world dollars and values. Qualify you ROI (return on investment) instead of impulse buying and you'll decrease your risk of disappointment and buyers remorse.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,897
Likes: 412
From: Lewisville TX
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
The fact of the matter is though, in most supercharged applications a change in back pressure will result in a change of measured boost. Same thing with changing down pipes and post turbo pipes on a turbo car.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,049
Likes: 330
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Before I make a purchase I calculate the value or ROI of any part or service to see how much money I'm paying for every horsepower and/or every ft lb of torque. In my opinion a tune always comes first as it usually shows good increases on dyno, on track and butt dyno giving better off idle throttle response and snappier through the revs. Say you pay $500 for tune and see 20rwhp gain that is $25/rwhp (Spend / rwhp = $/rwhp. If headers cost $2000 installed and retuned with 25rwhp gain your cost is $80/rwhp. Say you install centri-supercharger from A&A/ECS/ProCharger for $8000 and yield 160rwhp that is $50/rwhp (I factored in $6200 advertised installed/tuned price by forum vendor along with another $1800 twin disc clutch installed). 160rwhp is attainable by centri unit on pump gas only with plenty of clutch to spare. Obviously my numbers are estimates but pretty close to real world dollars and values. Qualify you ROI (return on investment) instead of impulse buying and you'll decrease your risk of disappointment and buyers remorse.
i like the way you think.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,049
Likes: 330
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
It just Impresses me when people actually back up what they say with thought and facts. many people just believe things because other people say it. Kinda like if someone says some BS and says it over and over, they think if they say it enough times that it will suddenly become true.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 13,298
Likes: 14
From: Somers NY
In one or two of the above posts it was mentioned how much $$ you spend "per HP" ....
I'd bet my house WJ or any top shelf Pro Stock driver would pay $1000 "PER HP"
I'm dead serious...if you were able to GAR-UN-TEE a Pro Stock owner/Driver.. you could add 30 more HP to his 500 ci motor he would gladly pay you $30,000 ...
I made 396 HP with my LS2 with a CAI, Kooks Headers, and a tune.. & I blew up that motor.. I'm picking my new motor in a week or two, it will be a stroker (403 ci) with a FAST Intake, ported and polished 243 heads, and a cam (Not crazy aggressive) something I can drive on the streets ...I expect to make close to 500 RWHP..
I'm going to the shop tomorrow as they are going to dyno another car that just had the "EXACT SAME ENGINE" installed.. so I should see how close to 500 I'll be.. but everyone I've spoken to agreed that Long Tube Headers are the way to go if your looking to make as much HP as you can...
I'd bet my house WJ or any top shelf Pro Stock driver would pay $1000 "PER HP"
I'm dead serious...if you were able to GAR-UN-TEE a Pro Stock owner/Driver.. you could add 30 more HP to his 500 ci motor he would gladly pay you $30,000 ...
I made 396 HP with my LS2 with a CAI, Kooks Headers, and a tune.. & I blew up that motor.. I'm picking my new motor in a week or two, it will be a stroker (403 ci) with a FAST Intake, ported and polished 243 heads, and a cam (Not crazy aggressive) something I can drive on the streets ...I expect to make close to 500 RWHP..
I'm going to the shop tomorrow as they are going to dyno another car that just had the "EXACT SAME ENGINE" installed.. so I should see how close to 500 I'll be.. but everyone I've spoken to agreed that Long Tube Headers are the way to go if your looking to make as much HP as you can...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,259
Likes: 16
From: Monroe Township New Jersey
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
St. Jude donor in memory of jpee '14
Ah I am cheap ..... I lusted after a set of LG long tubes but being a cheap skate I went with a complete Z06 Exhaust for approximately $ 900.00. I added a cold air intake, fast 90, bilstein shocks, 2800 stall, converter, tune, line lock, and a set of MT drag radials.
The car went a best of 11.3X with out any weight reduction and went 11.17 with GTO spares on the front, no pass side seat, almost no gas and all my stuff removed from the car. I race at Atco so I usually have the benefit of a decent DA.
For those of you who do not need every bit of horse power and rather not be hassled at state inspection a Z06 exhaust is an option. If you want that extra HP then go with the headers.
The car went a best of 11.3X with out any weight reduction and went 11.17 with GTO spares on the front, no pass side seat, almost no gas and all my stuff removed from the car. I race at Atco so I usually have the benefit of a decent DA.
For those of you who do not need every bit of horse power and rather not be hassled at state inspection a Z06 exhaust is an option. If you want that extra HP then go with the headers.
Last edited by Tommy D; Nov 19, 2013 at 11:32 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,049
Likes: 330
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
In one or two of the above posts it was mentioned how much $$ you spend "per HP" ....
I'd bet my house WJ or any top shelf Pro Stock driver would pay $1000 "PER HP"
I'm dead serious...if you were able to GAR-UN-TEE a Pro Stock owner/Driver.. you could add 30 more HP to his 500 ci motor he would gladly pay you $30,000 ...
I made 396 HP with my LS2 with a CAI, Kooks Headers, and a tune.. & I blew up that motor.. I'm picking my new motor in a week or two, it will be a stroker (403 ci) with a FAST Intake, ported and polished 243 heads, and a cam (Not crazy aggressive) something I can drive on the streets ...I expect to make close to 500 RWHP..
I'm going to the shop tomorrow as they are going to dyno another car that just had the "EXACT SAME ENGINE" installed.. so I should see how close to 500 I'll be.. but everyone I've spoken to agreed that Long Tube Headers are the way to go if your looking to make as much HP as you can...
I'd bet my house WJ or any top shelf Pro Stock driver would pay $1000 "PER HP"
I'm dead serious...if you were able to GAR-UN-TEE a Pro Stock owner/Driver.. you could add 30 more HP to his 500 ci motor he would gladly pay you $30,000 ...
I made 396 HP with my LS2 with a CAI, Kooks Headers, and a tune.. & I blew up that motor.. I'm picking my new motor in a week or two, it will be a stroker (403 ci) with a FAST Intake, ported and polished 243 heads, and a cam (Not crazy aggressive) something I can drive on the streets ...I expect to make close to 500 RWHP..
I'm going to the shop tomorrow as they are going to dyno another car that just had the "EXACT SAME ENGINE" installed.. so I should see how close to 500 I'll be.. but everyone I've spoken to agreed that Long Tube Headers are the way to go if your looking to make as much HP as you can...
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,599
Likes: 1,225
From: Providing the most proven supercharger kits for your C5/6/7 609-752-0321
In my experience using LS7 manifolds over a full length header produces roughly 40-45% of the power gain.
Not a bad $ per HP increase!
That said, long tube headers are hands down better HP per HP.
All depends on your goals, financial placement, or simply what you wish to spend your money on.
Not a bad $ per HP increase!
That said, long tube headers are hands down better HP per HP.
All depends on your goals, financial placement, or simply what you wish to spend your money on.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,389
Likes: 2,910
From: Fort Worth, Texas
In my experience using LS7 manifolds over a full length header produces roughly 40-45% of the power gain.
Not a bad $ per HP increase!
That said, long tube headers are hands down better HP per HP.
All depends on your goals, financial placement, or simply what you wish to spend your money on.
Not a bad $ per HP increase!
That said, long tube headers are hands down better HP per HP.
All depends on your goals, financial placement, or simply what you wish to spend your money on.
only the purchaser can decide that for themselves, but they shouldn't ignore the facts believing that a LS7 manifold will make as much or more power than a well designed long tube header. I have yet to see a C7, Z06 or ZR1 not gain power when they get headers installed as efficient as the factory "shorty" headers are. Same can be used in a comparison to the aftermarket shorty headers vs full length designs. You get half the gains, but are still leaving some power on the table. I definitely recommend them for guys on a budget, sleeper status or to pass visual smog inspection.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,108
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
who the HELL is talking about pro stock here, we are talking about the average Joe and his DD. Why is it some people always try to change or confuse the subject. OK $ per $ I think the stock ZR1 exhaust system puts any of those $2000 header systems to shame. That's what the man was suggesting. Is that simple enough for you to understand?
I can take a stock LS3 car and make it run 3 mph faster in the 1/4 mile for a couple hours of my labor and $0. Try calculating out that HP and value gained.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,475
Likes: 332
From: Port Arthur, Texas 77642
Thanks, I was merely referring to the "power returned per dollar invested". Everything ties back to almighty dollar so make those mods count 
Yes and the results of that install proved without question that on a basically stock setup you will not achieve a good power increase per dollar invested. At that time I had factory manifolds with $160 off road x-pipe welded in. Spending that $2k+ on cam install would have yielded more power.
The Pro Stock analogy is totally irrelevant but I agree with needing long tubes to make maximum power. Long tubes eventually work they way into every max effort build to squeeze out every last horsepower. I've made my point in preceding posts addressing dollar invested vs. power gained, it is valid, quantifiable and undisputable. All that said, spend your money how it makes YOU happy.
All depends on your goals, financial placement, or simply what you wish to spend your money on
only the purchaser can decide that for themselves, but they shouldn't ignore the facts believing that a LS7 manifold will make as much or more power than a well designed long tube header. I have yet to see a C7, Z06 or ZR1 not gain power when they get headers installed as efficient as the factory "shorty" headers are. Same can be used in a comparison to the aftermarket shorty headers vs full length designs. You get half the gains, but are still leaving some power on the table. I definitely recommend them for guys on a budget, sleeper status or to pass visual smog inspection.
Adding to this, it only takes a look at dyno graphs to illustrate where power is gained or lost by LT's compared to LS7 manifolds. Gains / losses depending on primary diameter of LT's and RPM of measurement.
Yes and the results of that install proved without question that on a basically stock setup you will not achieve a good power increase per dollar invested. At that time I had factory manifolds with $160 off road x-pipe welded in. Spending that $2k+ on cam install would have yielded more power.
In one or two of the above posts it was mentioned how much $$ you spend "per HP" ....
I'd bet my house WJ or any top shelf Pro Stock driver would pay $1000 "PER HP"
I'm dead serious...if you were able to GAR-UN-TEE a Pro Stock owner/Driver.. you could add 30 more HP to his 500 ci motor he would gladly pay you $30,000 ...
....I'm going to the shop tomorrow as they are going to dyno another car that just had the "EXACT SAME ENGINE" installed.. so I should see how close to 500 I'll be.. but everyone I've spoken to agreed that Long Tube Headers are the way to go if your looking to make as much HP as you can...
I'd bet my house WJ or any top shelf Pro Stock driver would pay $1000 "PER HP"
I'm dead serious...if you were able to GAR-UN-TEE a Pro Stock owner/Driver.. you could add 30 more HP to his 500 ci motor he would gladly pay you $30,000 ...
....I'm going to the shop tomorrow as they are going to dyno another car that just had the "EXACT SAME ENGINE" installed.. so I should see how close to 500 I'll be.. but everyone I've spoken to agreed that Long Tube Headers are the way to go if your looking to make as much HP as you can...
In my experience using LS7 manifolds over a full length header produces roughly 40-45% of the power gain.
Not a bad $ per HP increase!
That said, long tube headers are hands down better HP per HP.
All depends on your goals, financial placement, or simply what you wish to spend your money on.
Not a bad $ per HP increase!
That said, long tube headers are hands down better HP per HP.
All depends on your goals, financial placement, or simply what you wish to spend your money on.
All depends on your goals, financial placement, or simply what you wish to spend your money on only the purchaser can decide that for themselves, but they shouldn't ignore the facts believing that a LS7 manifold will make as much or more power than a well designed long tube header. I have yet to see a C7, Z06 or ZR1 not gain power when they get headers installed as efficient as the factory "shorty" headers are. Same can be used in a comparison to the aftermarket shorty headers vs full length designs. You get half the gains, but are still leaving some power on the table. I definitely recommend them for guys on a budget, sleeper status or to pass visual smog inspection. Adding to this, it only takes a look at dyno graphs to illustrate where power is gained or lost by LT's compared to LS7 manifolds. Gains / losses depending on primary diameter of LT's and RPM of measurement.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,049
Likes: 330
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Just exactly what type of comparison would be acceptable to you? Obviously you're hung up on money, not the relationships of what money can buy.
I can take a stock LS3 car and make it run 3 mph faster in the 1/4 mile for a couple hours of my labor and $0. Try calculating out that HP and value gained.
I can take a stock LS3 car and make it run 3 mph faster in the 1/4 mile for a couple hours of my labor and $0. Try calculating out that HP and value gained.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Cedar Lake Indiana
I was at 384rwhp with Cai and gutted cats. After upgrading to ls7 manifolds, cats, midpipes, Mild(seriously...mild) cam and tune Im at 443rwhp through stock non npp mufflers. I know headers will see more power, but for the cost its not worth it to me for what im doing with the car. Car is quiet, drives near stock...but much more power
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,049
Likes: 330
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
I was at 384rwhp with Cai and gutted cats. After upgrading to ls7 manifolds, cats, midpipes, Mild(seriously...mild) cam and tune Im at 443rwhp through stock non npp mufflers. I know headers will see more power, but for the cost its not worth it to me for what im doing with the car. Car is quiet, drives near stock...but much more power