how about the c7 clone of the California Ferrari not exact but close

 

Not to take away from your main thought, but there are several things you mentioned that all header manufacturers have in common. For a C6 the logic is to have a collector finish to either 2.5" or 3" to match all the muffler systems on the market. You also want the tube wall thickness to be correct for forming the bends without kinks or size reductions. The primary tube diameters are going to be either 1.75" or 1.875" for the best flow according to the engine size and mods. The O2 sensor location is partly dependent on the available space and distance from the head, so that won't vary much on a C6. On a 4 tube design, there is some room for location of bends, but since the overall space is fairly restricted, they're not going to be radically different from brand to brand.
I do agree with the thought about a 100% copy, but other than the method of coupling, all 4-tube C6 headers are about 90% the same and they all produce relatively close to the same power.

 

you can purchase reasonably priced stainless headers and catted x-pipes for $750. that have excellent fit and finish with perfect welds that make as much hp as anything out there.if you dont like hp of cat-backs dont buy them.you and I in agreement there about cat-backs being a waste of money.

 

Well if I want premium headers I would buy from a reputable vendor/company...If I want cheap azz I would buy from Ebay/

 

The issue here is whether or not ARH has some type of IP infringement or patent claim to the design of the headers.

IP fraud is typically cloning the look and feel of something and putting someone else's name on it and selling it because the name of it sells. Like making a golf club that looks exactly like a brand name expensive club, putting that name on it and selling it as if it were an original.

Patent infingement is typically copying someone's design and selling it because the design is a good one when that design has legal patent protection. Patent's typically have a fairly short life in the overall scheme of things. When the patent protection expires ANYONE can make the same item using the same processes if they want to or some other way to arrive at a product that does the same thing. That's why generic drug manufacturers are in business. When patent protection expires they make drugs using the same ingredients. What they can not do and is highly illegal is USE THE SAME WELL KNOWN BRAND NAME on the generic drug they have created.

That's the issue at hand. I certainly understand the frustration. It's very real. The problem you have is that as I understand it the company is not stamping ARH on their headers? That activity would most likely fall under IP infringement. Instead it sounds like they have a well known name and they are having products made and putting their name on them and going to market with those products. They then make any claims they want to regarding power output etc. and face whatever false advertising consequences there may be afterwards. If you have no enforceable design patent protection more than likely they haven't broken any laws. It may be perceived as copying everything you do but in actuality they probably aren't. What they are doing is making something with a very similar or exact shape out of what you believe to be inferior materials and putting their name on it. That in and of itself makes them quite different. If I have the choice of yours and theirs and know yours are a better quality and that's important to me then I will use yours. If I like the fact that their name is stamped on the headers because they have a cool marketing program and I am not an expert on material quality I will use theirs.

Here is the other problem that I see. Calling them out even when not naming names on a public forum if they haven't done anything legally wrong can have it's own ramifications. Defamation of personal character, loss of revenue, brand defamation etc. Case in point with some searching it took me two minutes to figure out who they are. I have had to change the name of my company because it sounded similar to the name of a multi-billion dollar corporation in a similar industry. Their concern was their brand and it's image explained in a 70 page legal document. I hated the first name we had chosen anyway so I was happy to change it. My point is that branding and image is very important in today's business climate and can be legally defended.

Here is my suggestion to anyone that ever finds themselves in this situation. Contact an IP/Patent firm and ask them for guidance. I have some great friends who are partners at a firm such as that and anyone may send me a PM at any time and I will be happy to provide them with their information.

I am not an attorney. I do have a tremendous amount of experience regarding issues such as this because I am in the process of doing my own branding of products that I sell everyday. They are EXACTLY the same products as you would receive from an OEM manufacturer. Interestingly it's the manufacturers and their distributors who are helping me with the branding of those products. Oil and paper manufacturers have been doing it for years. They sell their products to sales and marketing companies who put their name all over it and take the products to market. Those brand name manufacturing companies are competing side by side on retail store shelves with their own products with different labels on them being sold for less.

That's all I have. Sorry if it makes some forum members upset and I understand exactly how you feel.

 

Racingswh, I'm glad you figured out who the culprit is but you're missing the point of this thread. This well known company on this site took my product and sent to china where it was knocked off to the letter. I can take these parts and place them directly into my fixtures. I am informing forum members that there 's, once again or for the 4th time to be exact, a direct copy of our C6 system. I firmly believe that forum members would like to know when these things occur based on what we've learned from the past. It's that simple.
When you see the damage we've seen when this inferior crap falls apart, melted harnesses, massive exhaust leaks, burned ingition wires etc... I prefer to forwarn forum members and potential customers.

Nick

 

I guess that I am not as smart as others because I still don't know who the culprit is.

 

Ok, now I have no stake in this matter at all, don't know who the offending party is & have no personal beef with you or your products AT ALL. I will be in the market soon for some parts for my C6, and would like to know what is out there though.

However, if you're saying that these cheap parts are basically exact/direct copies, and fit directly in your fixtures, what are you saying is inferior? The metal itself? The welds? If it's an exact copy are you saying that your product will also cause melted harnesses, & burned ignition wires? (I left out exhaust leaks & falling apart in case the material of construction & weld quality are your findings of their inferior quality as opposed to your product, which are causing these failures).

Thanks for any light you can shed on this.

 

Irrespective of all the other facets previously discussed, your post has mixed messages. It says on one hand that your product is so good that 4 times it has been copied to the letter. On the other hand, you say the copies are inferior and will cause damage. Exact copies don't fall apart if the welding is good. This type of welding is nothing special. Unless there is some independent testing of the weld integrity, I see no difference between a Chinese welder and an American one.
I'm assuming you, nor anyone else has a current patent for headers, so no header companies have any IP protection.
While it may be an irritation, pointing out the competitor's copy doesn't advance your product. You may be better served by advertising your's as the highly copied originals.

 

Dam this ^^^guy and Tom are smart, and common sense, you will go far pilgrim!!!! what a great thanksgiving refrence

 

Inferior materials is exactly the problem. Plain and simple it falls apart more often than you'd expect and it's usually what does these companies in over time. And to clarify, they are direct copies. When they eventually do have fitment issues it's because of horrible quality control. There's probably 100's of forum members that can attest to poor fitment of Chinese made headers.

Nick

 

Situations like this are common in the aftermarket automotive industry. You have to change so little to be in the clear legally. On the other hand I would venture to say that every manufacturer of C6 headers that was not the first has used a set of competitor's headers during the design phase.
One good thing about that will eventually come of this is it will drive header costs down because I will tell you C6 headers are overpriced. Systems for other cars such as some of the mustangs are far more complex and fit in a tighter area are several hundred dollars cheaper. The manufacturers at this point are taking advantage of Corvette owners.
I just bought headers and if I had not been so interested in the tri-y design of the headers I purchased I would have taken a serious look at the knock offs even though I normally buy blue blooded American made. At some price point a fellow starts feeling like he is being made an *** of. Profit margin on these American made headers is through the roof. Remember some of us know. Hence the reason we see so many jumping in the game.

 

So what parts are inferior? The tubing material? Wall thickness? Flanges? Bolting & gasketing?

You say they fit exactly in your fixtures, but then you say the quality control is bad. Did you get the one good one they manufactured and fits in your fixture?

I see a lot of generalizations and contradictions in your statements. I haven't seen 100's of forum posts by members here about brand XYZ fitting like crap, leaking or burning harnesses & wires (and you can bet there would be if that were the case around here).

OK, I'm thru playing devil's advocate now. For the record, I like Dennis, have a garage full of American (GM) made cars, truck & motorcycle and don't mind spending good money for top quality stuff. I know I would also be pissed if someone copied my stuff too, but like Tom (HOXXOH) said, you may get more mileage if you advertised yours are the original, best copied products out there. I also try to buy American and give local vendors the first shot at my purchases. I'm also a firm believer that you almost always get what you pay for, if it seems too good a deal, or costs much less that everyone else's product, that may be a red flag.

 

I think what Nick is saying yes they are copies yes they are exact fit but quality is not the same..Now as far as a business standpoint, I'm sure all and everyone would be upset if someone copied your exact design and sold it 500 cheaper. Now as far as saying the systems are overpriced, you should check out viper, Aston martin ECT... I'm sure in the future prices will drop if people are going to be copying original products. I'm sure Nick will have to change pricing just like everyone else will to compete with knock off designs. Yes it hurts other vendors who have done real R&D for our cars or any other.. It trickles down eventually and hurts everyone... Say for example I started copying intake systems from each manufacture but changed something slightly to get away with being original with say product A. I would be as a vendor upset....and that's where AR is at now....Im sure if you call AR deals can be made with purchases...

 

On a side note I believe by now the other vender has reviewed this thread and all posts. Wonder if they will show any details as to who designed their headers etc etc

 

I'm sure they will have to have proof other than saying they designed it here in US or ECT.. Also the c6 has been out so long and suddenly they come out with headers, they must have been doing a lot of R&D to make them look exactly like product A. For example look at the pfadt design different, and they just recently came out with there exhaust. The other company should of came up with something different also...like pfadt did because I guarantee you somebody would be telling pfadt you guys do suspension and now you copied my header design. That's why they did what they did with there R&D into there header.

 

Nbm I welcome you to come ARH to see just exactly what it takes to prototype, manufacture and bring to market any header system that's made entirely in the USA. Your tune will change dramatically. Maybe there are brands that charge more than they should, especially those that sell Chinese manufactured products within a couple hundred dollars of us. For the record, the average corvette system out of China bought in bulk is $200.00. They sell them to naive consumers for $1200.00. How's that for profit margin and the product is still far inferior in quality. These are rock solid facts that you can't run from. I shake my head every time I see someone buy one of these systems and thinks they did themselves a favor. They got ripped off. Period the end.

Nick.

 

Nick,

I appreciate the offer of a visit to ARH but that visit is not necessary. I have a good understanding of prototyping and manufacturing. I have been a mechanical designer for years. I have been the primary designer for 30+ products currently being produced and marketed by a well known company in the 4x4 industry. I even had a product of my own well on it's way to the market when I realized I don't have the personality to deal with customers everyday. That design is currently being manufactured by another company that got their hands on pics of my product from a photographer.

I am very familiar with tooling costs for prototyping and manufacturing. I am also sad to say I am familiar with the language barriers and runs of lost product due to overseas errors when the final design is sent out of the country.

You are only trying to protect what is yours and I understand more than you know. At the end of the day the designer, labor, mandrel bender, plate cutter (water, laser or plasma), tubing and plate required to make headers for a corvette, viper or Aston Martin does not cost any more than those same materials used on less expensive cars. And yes I do understand the volume differences.

 

Well, apparently Nick doesn't want to address my questions, so when the time comes to vote with my wallet, that will certainly figure into my purchase decision.

 

Don't worry brother its Thanksgiving I'm sure he will just give it time. But you don't have to ask him a lot as you can do research on AR products I have had them on my other cars you def will be satisfied..