Alternator issue
06-24-2017, 05:02 PM
#1
Alternator issue
So having an issue with my charging system. I always keep the battery hooked up to a charger when the car isnt being driven. When driving the voltage drops at times to 10.8 or so on the gauge and then EVERY system light pops on. Service charging system, service ABS, service traction system, etc.
Tested the voltage right at the alternator and got 12.2 and below with fluctuations.
Time for a new alternator? and if so any recommendations?
Tested the voltage right at the alternator and got 12.2 and below with fluctuations.
Time for a new alternator? and if so any recommendations?
06-24-2017, 08:28 PM
#2
Team Owner
Quite possible.
If your voltage is doing massive swings on your gauge, like 14 to 11 or so, then back to 14, the cause may be your alternator. Double check it. If the alternator is bad, I would suggest swapping it out yourself, it is easy to do takes about 5 min, you need a 15mm socket wrench and a 1/2 inch open ended wrench. Suggest looking into the Billet Tech 170 amp. Quite a few members here have gone with this alternator and all reviews have been good. Dealer will probably charge about $700-$800 for this fix with a stock unit.
If the alternator is good, check the starter solenoid, don't just visually inspect it, reach up and wiggle the top terminal. If it is lose or moves, there is your problem. You don't have to buy a whole new starter. Just replace to solenoid. Approx $15 and about 15 minutes of your time.
Old Billet Tech post but with info:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ternators.html
Edit:
Example pics of bad solenoid lug to look for:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...and-sport.html
If your voltage is doing massive swings on your gauge, like 14 to 11 or so, then back to 14, the cause may be your alternator. Double check it. If the alternator is bad, I would suggest swapping it out yourself, it is easy to do takes about 5 min, you need a 15mm socket wrench and a 1/2 inch open ended wrench. Suggest looking into the Billet Tech 170 amp. Quite a few members here have gone with this alternator and all reviews have been good. Dealer will probably charge about $700-$800 for this fix with a stock unit.
If the alternator is good, check the starter solenoid, don't just visually inspect it, reach up and wiggle the top terminal. If it is lose or moves, there is your problem. You don't have to buy a whole new starter. Just replace to solenoid. Approx $15 and about 15 minutes of your time.
Old Billet Tech post but with info:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ternators.html
Edit:
Example pics of bad solenoid lug to look for:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...and-sport.html
Last edited by RicK T; 06-24-2017 at 08:31 PM. Reason: add info and link
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Vette_Beach (09-24-2022)
06-25-2017, 12:49 AM
#3
Starter starter solenoid if you need one, hence lug connector starting to crack off.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1592849217
As for the alternator, Should be at 14.7 volts with the car idling and it checked via it's back lug under the rubber boot as positive, and the body of it as ground.
If you are sure that you are using OEM spark plugs and OEM spark plug wires, and not some after market plugs and wires with a lower resistance that can cause RF noise in the system to cause the alternator to put out lower voltage, then a write up I did on pulling the alternator apart to clean it and check the brushes.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...nator-fix.html
As for the OEM alternator valeo unit, they do not like to be over spun. When over spun, it will crack the coil basket winding cage apart, and this causes major problems with the unit (major problems as in you not going to be able to fix it, and the entire alternator has to be replaced instead).
So quick run down with the car idling, should have 14.7 at the alternator.
If 14.7 at the alternator, should have 14.5 volts at both the battery terminals, and the engine fuse box terminal itself back to the battery ground terminal. If you come up low at the battery/fuse box terminal but fine at the alternator, then use the alternator body to double check the ground cable bolted to the engine right above the starter. If still low, then suspect that the starter solenoid connector terminal is the problem.
As for the DIC, with 14.7 at the alternator, 14.5 at the battery or better, should have 14.3 or better on the DIC. dash gauge voltage dial.
Note the DIC.dash gauge voltage dial is telling you the voltage at the ECM, and not the dash gauge voltage itself.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1592849217
As for the alternator, Should be at 14.7 volts with the car idling and it checked via it's back lug under the rubber boot as positive, and the body of it as ground.
If you are sure that you are using OEM spark plugs and OEM spark plug wires, and not some after market plugs and wires with a lower resistance that can cause RF noise in the system to cause the alternator to put out lower voltage, then a write up I did on pulling the alternator apart to clean it and check the brushes.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...nator-fix.html
As for the OEM alternator valeo unit, they do not like to be over spun. When over spun, it will crack the coil basket winding cage apart, and this causes major problems with the unit (major problems as in you not going to be able to fix it, and the entire alternator has to be replaced instead).
So quick run down with the car idling, should have 14.7 at the alternator.
If 14.7 at the alternator, should have 14.5 volts at both the battery terminals, and the engine fuse box terminal itself back to the battery ground terminal. If you come up low at the battery/fuse box terminal but fine at the alternator, then use the alternator body to double check the ground cable bolted to the engine right above the starter. If still low, then suspect that the starter solenoid connector terminal is the problem.
As for the DIC, with 14.7 at the alternator, 14.5 at the battery or better, should have 14.3 or better on the DIC. dash gauge voltage dial.
Note the DIC.dash gauge voltage dial is telling you the voltage at the ECM, and not the dash gauge voltage itself.
Last edited by Dano523; 06-25-2017 at 01:00 AM.
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anchito27 (09-01-2022),
tommyc6z06 (09-01-2022)
06-25-2017, 11:45 AM
#4
Starter starter solenoid if you need one, hence lug connector starting to crack off.
https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Quali...iglink20400-20
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1592849217
As for the alternator, Should be at 14.7 volts with the car idling and it checked via it's back lug under the rubber boot as positive, and the body of it as ground.
If you are sure that you are using OEM spark plugs and OEM spark plug wires, and not some after market plugs and wires with a lower resistance that can cause RF noise in the system to cause the alternator to put out lower voltage, then a write up I did on pulling the alternator apart to clean it and check the brushes.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...nator-fix.html
As for the OEM alternator valeo unit, they do not like to be over spun. When over spun, it will crack the coil basket winding cage apart, and this causes major problems with the unit (major problems as in you not going to be able to fix it, and the entire alternator has to be replaced instead).
So quick run down with the car idling, should have 14.7 at the alternator.
If 14.7 at the alternator, should have 14.5 volts at both the battery terminals, and the engine fuse box terminal itself back to the battery ground terminal. If you come up low at the battery/fuse box terminal but fine at the alternator, then use the alternator body to double check the ground cable bolted to the engine right above the starter. If still low, then suspect that the starter solenoid connector terminal is the problem.
As for the DIC, with 14.7 at the alternator, 14.5 at the battery or better, should have 14.3 or better on the DIC. dash gauge voltage dial.
Note the DIC.dash gauge voltage dial is telling you the voltage at the ECM, and not the dash gauge voltage itself.
https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Quali...iglink20400-20
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1592849217
As for the alternator, Should be at 14.7 volts with the car idling and it checked via it's back lug under the rubber boot as positive, and the body of it as ground.
If you are sure that you are using OEM spark plugs and OEM spark plug wires, and not some after market plugs and wires with a lower resistance that can cause RF noise in the system to cause the alternator to put out lower voltage, then a write up I did on pulling the alternator apart to clean it and check the brushes.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...nator-fix.html
As for the OEM alternator valeo unit, they do not like to be over spun. When over spun, it will crack the coil basket winding cage apart, and this causes major problems with the unit (major problems as in you not going to be able to fix it, and the entire alternator has to be replaced instead).
So quick run down with the car idling, should have 14.7 at the alternator.
If 14.7 at the alternator, should have 14.5 volts at both the battery terminals, and the engine fuse box terminal itself back to the battery ground terminal. If you come up low at the battery/fuse box terminal but fine at the alternator, then use the alternator body to double check the ground cable bolted to the engine right above the starter. If still low, then suspect that the starter solenoid connector terminal is the problem.
As for the DIC, with 14.7 at the alternator, 14.5 at the battery or better, should have 14.3 or better on the DIC. dash gauge voltage dial.
Note the DIC.dash gauge voltage dial is telling you the voltage at the ECM, and not the dash gauge voltage itself.
06-25-2017, 02:06 PM
#5
Does the alternator have a clutch pulley? My first one did not and would only charge above 2500rpms. Also these Alternators just suck they don't put out 14.7 at all my gets down into the 11's. Couple tricks one is to run a new 1/0 wire from alternator straight to the fuse block second is get a billet alternator lol
06-25-2017, 04:52 PM
#6
Jim, need you to turn the AC off for the above voltage tests.
When the AC kicks on , it turns the radiator fan on as well, and this is going to be a major draw on a alternator.
So lets start with a base line voltage readings across the board to begin with, and maybe even a quick clean up of the alternator contact points as well.
From here with the alternator putting out 14.7V, may be just a quick clean up of the main charging wire points from the alternator to battery and engine fuse box, and then battery to engine ground point that may be the last of the problem.
As for when I did the write up on cleaning up the alternator, went through the entire system to clean all the contact points, including inside the engine fuse box, the BCM, and even the ECM connector.
Bluntly, the OEM alternator only puts out about 15amps at idle, and this is just enough to car the battery in a neutral state of charge at idle. Sitting at a stop light with the A/C on, the battery is starting to be drained down from is normal 13.7 volt max charge, and if the charging system can not get the battery charged back up (bad connector points across the system hobbling such) before you get to the next stop light, this is going to cause problems.
I didn't check your location, but if you are in a state where you will have to be blasting the AC and in a lot of stop and go traffic as well, then you really should upgrade the alternator to one of the billet units. The billet units are only a 170amp units, but since they are a 6 pole design (over the 3 pole of the OEM unit), at idle the billet design puts out 50+ amps instead.
When the AC kicks on , it turns the radiator fan on as well, and this is going to be a major draw on a alternator.
So lets start with a base line voltage readings across the board to begin with, and maybe even a quick clean up of the alternator contact points as well.
From here with the alternator putting out 14.7V, may be just a quick clean up of the main charging wire points from the alternator to battery and engine fuse box, and then battery to engine ground point that may be the last of the problem.
As for when I did the write up on cleaning up the alternator, went through the entire system to clean all the contact points, including inside the engine fuse box, the BCM, and even the ECM connector.
Bluntly, the OEM alternator only puts out about 15amps at idle, and this is just enough to car the battery in a neutral state of charge at idle. Sitting at a stop light with the A/C on, the battery is starting to be drained down from is normal 13.7 volt max charge, and if the charging system can not get the battery charged back up (bad connector points across the system hobbling such) before you get to the next stop light, this is going to cause problems.
I didn't check your location, but if you are in a state where you will have to be blasting the AC and in a lot of stop and go traffic as well, then you really should upgrade the alternator to one of the billet units. The billet units are only a 170amp units, but since they are a 6 pole design (over the 3 pole of the OEM unit), at idle the billet design puts out 50+ amps instead.
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anchito27 (09-01-2022)
06-25-2017, 05:09 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2014
Location: lake havasu city arizona
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Jim, need you to turn the AC off for the above voltage tests.
When the AC kicks on , it turns the radiator fan on as well, and this is going to be a major draw on a alternator.
So lets start with a base line voltage readings across the board to begin with, and maybe even a quick clean up of the alternator contact points as well.
From here with the alternator putting out 14.7V, may be just a quick clean up of the main charging wire points from the alternator to battery and engine fuse box, and then battery to engine ground point that may be the last of the problem.
As for when I did the write up on cleaning up the alternator, went through the entire system to clean all the contact points, including inside the engine fuse box, the BCM, and even the ECM connector.
Bluntly, the OEM alternator only puts out about 15amps at idle, and this is just enough to car the battery in a neutral state of charge at idle. Sitting at a stop light with the A/C on, the battery is starting to be drained down from is normal 13.7 volt max charge, and if the charging system can not get the battery charged back up (bad connector points across the system hobbling such) before you get to the next stop light, this is going to cause problems.
I didn't check your location, but if you are in a state where you will have to be blasting the AC and in a lot of stop and go traffic as well, then you really should upgrade the alternator to one of the billet units. The billet units are only a 170amp units, but since they are a 6 pole design (over the 3 pole of the OEM unit), at idle the billet design puts out 50+ amps instead.
When the AC kicks on , it turns the radiator fan on as well, and this is going to be a major draw on a alternator.
So lets start with a base line voltage readings across the board to begin with, and maybe even a quick clean up of the alternator contact points as well.
From here with the alternator putting out 14.7V, may be just a quick clean up of the main charging wire points from the alternator to battery and engine fuse box, and then battery to engine ground point that may be the last of the problem.
As for when I did the write up on cleaning up the alternator, went through the entire system to clean all the contact points, including inside the engine fuse box, the BCM, and even the ECM connector.
Bluntly, the OEM alternator only puts out about 15amps at idle, and this is just enough to car the battery in a neutral state of charge at idle. Sitting at a stop light with the A/C on, the battery is starting to be drained down from is normal 13.7 volt max charge, and if the charging system can not get the battery charged back up (bad connector points across the system hobbling such) before you get to the next stop light, this is going to cause problems.
I didn't check your location, but if you are in a state where you will have to be blasting the AC and in a lot of stop and go traffic as well, then you really should upgrade the alternator to one of the billet units. The billet units are only a 170amp units, but since they are a 6 pole design (over the 3 pole of the OEM unit), at idle the billet design puts out 50+ amps instead.
Just thinking out loud
NSF
06-25-2017, 11:14 PM
#9
Hence the ECM is only going to put the alternator into a charge start until the battery reaches the 13.7 Volt state, then will stop charging the system/battery until the battery drops again below it fully charged 13.7 volt state.
The car is pulling about 10 amps without the A/C/radiator fan running, but when the radiator and AC fan is running full blast, it alone is pulling down something like 25 amps instead (could be higher either of the fan are on the way out and the fan bushing are binding up), so the alternator really needs to be putting out at least 30 amps at idle to keep up with the car in hot weather.
So stoplight and the ac /radiator running, the OEM alternator is not keeping up with the battery drain, and the ecm has the alternator charging full blast (the 10-15 amps it will put out then) not only when sitting at the stop light, but when you dive away and now ramps up rev's to increase the alternator output amperage (will get up to 140 amps at full revs) to get the battery fully charged again.
With the billet, same happens sort of, but since the alternator has more than the needed amps at idle, ECM will kick it in and out of charge state siting at the stop light; instead of say the 10 plus mins that the OEM needs you driving at higher than idle rpms (when it final catches up and exceeds to the needed output amperage) before it fully charges the battery again.
So what have we learned,
Battery does not want to be charged at more than 15 volts, or it cause the battery to boil. Amperage wise, we need the alternator to be able to keep up with the cars demand to keep the battery fully charged at it normal 13.7 volt state (more amperage just means that the battery can be charged faster, but not so much faster with too high of a voltage that it will boil the battery).
If the alternator is not keeping up with the cars demands (14.7 volts and the needed amperage of the load), then this cause more drain cycles in the battery, and the battery to wear out faster.
As for the charging cables/ wires in the vet, then are rated about 200 amps between the alternator to battery to engine fuse box and engine ground point, so no fear of burning the charging cables or wires up. Hence it not what the alternator is putting out, but what the car is demanding down line on the wires for the draw instead. Hence if you are tapping into the power line in the car and not changing out the fuse sizes, the fuse will blow long before the wire burns up. Same goes for the alternator charging cable to the starter terminal, since there is a slow blow fuse in line there as well.
Last edited by Dano523; 06-25-2017 at 11:20 PM.
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06-26-2017, 09:57 AM
#10
So last night I rechecked the alternator under the boot and got the same reading, slightly more at idle with everything off. The battery was at full charge as I just took it off the charger. I went under the car and checked the solinoid and it is snug as can be. No play in either of the terminials to speak of. At this point is it safe to say I should go ahead and order the billet? If so what vendor will be quickest as I am going on a trip this weekend with the car.
Thank you all for the help, very insightful.
Thank you all for the help, very insightful.
06-26-2017, 03:38 PM
#12
Race Director
Member Since: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 16,664
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St. Jude Donor '15
Bret is your guy for these. What's his name on here? Blownbluez06 I think?
06-27-2017, 06:18 PM
#13
Team Owner
BLOWNBLUEZ06@RKTPerformance
02-08-2020, 04:45 PM
#14
Marked
09-01-2022, 03:14 AM
#15
No, since since both are working under 15 volts, and not enough voltage to boil the battery during charging by over charging with too high of a voltage.
Hence the ECM is only going to put the alternator into a charge start until the battery reaches the 13.7 Volt state, then will stop charging the system/battery until the battery drops again below it fully charged 13.7 volt state.
The car is pulling about 10 amps without the A/C/radiator fan running, but when the radiator and AC fan is running full blast, it alone is pulling down something like 25 amps instead (could be higher either of the fan are on the way out and the fan bushing are binding up), so the alternator really needs to be putting out at least 30 amps at idle to keep up with the car in hot weather.
So stoplight and the ac /radiator running, the OEM alternator is not keeping up with the battery drain, and the ecm has the alternator charging full blast (the 10-15 amps it will put out then) not only when sitting at the stop light, but when you dive away and now ramps up rev's to increase the alternator output amperage (will get up to 140 amps at full revs) to get the battery fully charged again.
With the billet, same happens sort of, but since the alternator has more than the needed amps at idle, ECM will kick it in and out of charge state siting at the stop light; instead of say the 10 plus mins that the OEM needs you driving at higher than idle rpms (when it final catches up and exceeds to the needed output amperage) before it fully charges the battery again.
So what have we learned,
Battery does not want to be charged at more than 15 volts, or it cause the battery to boil. Amperage wise, we need the alternator to be able to keep up with the cars demand to keep the battery fully charged at it normal 13.7 volt state (more amperage just means that the battery can be charged faster, but not so much faster with too high of a voltage that it will boil the battery).
If the alternator is not keeping up with the cars demands (14.7 volts and the needed amperage of the load), then this cause more drain cycles in the battery, and the battery to wear out faster.
As for the charging cables/ wires in the vet, then are rated about 200 amps between the alternator to battery to engine fuse box and engine ground point, so no fear of burning the charging cables or wires up. Hence it not what the alternator is putting out, but what the car is demanding down line on the wires for the draw instead. Hence if you are tapping into the power line in the car and not changing out the fuse sizes, the fuse will blow long before the wire burns up. Same goes for the alternator charging cable to the starter terminal, since there is a slow blow fuse in line there as well.
Hence the ECM is only going to put the alternator into a charge start until the battery reaches the 13.7 Volt state, then will stop charging the system/battery until the battery drops again below it fully charged 13.7 volt state.
The car is pulling about 10 amps without the A/C/radiator fan running, but when the radiator and AC fan is running full blast, it alone is pulling down something like 25 amps instead (could be higher either of the fan are on the way out and the fan bushing are binding up), so the alternator really needs to be putting out at least 30 amps at idle to keep up with the car in hot weather.
So stoplight and the ac /radiator running, the OEM alternator is not keeping up with the battery drain, and the ecm has the alternator charging full blast (the 10-15 amps it will put out then) not only when sitting at the stop light, but when you dive away and now ramps up rev's to increase the alternator output amperage (will get up to 140 amps at full revs) to get the battery fully charged again.
With the billet, same happens sort of, but since the alternator has more than the needed amps at idle, ECM will kick it in and out of charge state siting at the stop light; instead of say the 10 plus mins that the OEM needs you driving at higher than idle rpms (when it final catches up and exceeds to the needed output amperage) before it fully charges the battery again.
So what have we learned,
Battery does not want to be charged at more than 15 volts, or it cause the battery to boil. Amperage wise, we need the alternator to be able to keep up with the cars demand to keep the battery fully charged at it normal 13.7 volt state (more amperage just means that the battery can be charged faster, but not so much faster with too high of a voltage that it will boil the battery).
If the alternator is not keeping up with the cars demands (14.7 volts and the needed amperage of the load), then this cause more drain cycles in the battery, and the battery to wear out faster.
As for the charging cables/ wires in the vet, then are rated about 200 amps between the alternator to battery to engine fuse box and engine ground point, so no fear of burning the charging cables or wires up. Hence it not what the alternator is putting out, but what the car is demanding down line on the wires for the draw instead. Hence if you are tapping into the power line in the car and not changing out the fuse sizes, the fuse will blow long before the wire burns up. Same goes for the alternator charging cable to the starter terminal, since there is a slow blow fuse in line there as well.
According to AutoZone the alternator is failing, so I'm going to check the connection on the starter to see if that could be there problem or something else or the alternator itself. Could the voltage regulator be going out and how do you test for that?
I do use the AC when it's warm out and I would like to get a new head unit with front and rear cameras and maybe him up an amplifier to run a sub or 2, but nothing crazy. So if it is the alternator I would like to go to a 170 or 250 amp one or somewhere in between.. If I go under 200 amps, do I need to replace all the cables with bigger gauge ones? If I go with 220 or 250 amps would I need to replace the cables.
I live in northern Utah so it's around 95+ in the summer heat, it's usually not too humid, and the car has always been garage kept and covered most of the time. I'm going to check as many of the connections as I can find of course but I'm not sure if I can get to them all. I've had health issues over the last few years with really bad cases of Covid plus a couple others I had before that with my lungs and heart being affected by a really bad case of viral pneumonia and I don't think I can do the cables myself until I get a little better. I can't even imagine how much my local trusted shop would charge to do all that. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!
09-01-2022, 11:38 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
So driving my car today I got the traction control needs service light and then the charging system light and chimes in the DIC. The car also ran really rough (limp mode I guess?) but the alerts stopped and the car ran normal once or twice for several seconds when I got up to 45-50 mph which I'm guessing is normal when the alternator is going out.
According to AutoZone the alternator is failing, so I'm going to check the connection on the starter to see if that could be there problem or something else or the alternator itself. Could the voltage regulator be going out and how do you test for that?
I do use the AC when it's warm out and I would like to get a new head unit with front and rear cameras and maybe him up an amplifier to run a sub or 2, but nothing crazy. So if it is the alternator I would like to go to a 170 or 250 amp one or somewhere in between.. If I go under 200 amps, do I need to replace all the cables with bigger gauge ones? If I go with 220 or 250 amps would I need to replace the cables.
I live in northern Utah so it's around 95+ in the summer heat, it's usually not too humid, and the car has always been garage kept and covered most of the time. I'm going to check as many of the connections as I can find of course but I'm not sure if I can get to them all. I've had health issues over the last few years with really bad cases of Covid plus a couple others I had before that with my lungs and heart being affected by a really bad case of viral pneumonia and I don't think I can do the cables myself until I get a little better. I can't even imagine how much my local trusted shop would charge to do all that. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!
According to AutoZone the alternator is failing, so I'm going to check the connection on the starter to see if that could be there problem or something else or the alternator itself. Could the voltage regulator be going out and how do you test for that?
I do use the AC when it's warm out and I would like to get a new head unit with front and rear cameras and maybe him up an amplifier to run a sub or 2, but nothing crazy. So if it is the alternator I would like to go to a 170 or 250 amp one or somewhere in between.. If I go under 200 amps, do I need to replace all the cables with bigger gauge ones? If I go with 220 or 250 amps would I need to replace the cables.
I live in northern Utah so it's around 95+ in the summer heat, it's usually not too humid, and the car has always been garage kept and covered most of the time. I'm going to check as many of the connections as I can find of course but I'm not sure if I can get to them all. I've had health issues over the last few years with really bad cases of Covid plus a couple others I had before that with my lungs and heart being affected by a really bad case of viral pneumonia and I don't think I can do the cables myself until I get a little better. I can't even imagine how much my local trusted shop would charge to do all that. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!
You really would need a real code reader to know what set off the codes. I had a situation with all the conditions you had and was related to a wheel bearing speed sensor.
Use a battery terminal cleaner brush on the posts . Search all posts of dano523 for all things alternator / electrical troubleshooting
I added a mechman 170 amp
Consider adding a big 3 kit to fix a lot of ground / power issues
https://www.saccitycorvette.com/C6-Big3.html
Last edited by Got uid0; 09-01-2022 at 11:45 PM.
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