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Since purchasing my 12 GS, I have had no issues at all.
The past two weeks I noticed my clutch was getting soft. Well the clutch and brake fluid were dark, so I had the dealer flush clutch/brake. Turns out I fell into the TSB on needing the master cylinder replaced. Since the car has an extended warranty, they covered that work, and I paid for the brake flush/alignment/balancing just to get the car all set for the summer. I hate to say it now, but I didn't REALLY need to balance and align, I just felt since I was there, go for it as it had been about a year and had a special.
Now the fun begins...
I get the car back, the brakes feel like a sponge. I have to pump it twice to get enough pressure to feel comfortable braking. It takes twice the pedal distance to have close to the same braking pressure it had before.
Dealer claims they are fine...
As well, while the alignment paperwork shows it's in spec, it's pulling to the right. Doesn't matter what lane of the highway, but get above 50mph and you start to notice it.
And finally, I had the RR wheel replaced with a brand new one from GM (OEM GS wheel), along with a new an OEM GM TPMS sensor. I bent the wheel about a year ago, and just got to replacing it. (It had a slight vibration that wouldn't go away, but it was BY FAR not an issue.)
I get the car back, new wheel is on the LR and the dash is lit up about the RR sensor not working...if the new wheel and TPMS sensor on the the LR now, why would the RR sensor be complaining...???
Dealer claims there is something odd about the 2012 year, and my car happens to be one where they have to "lock" it overnight...whatever that means. (A few of their techs brought that up to the service advisor..???)
At the end of the day, I am going to have to pick it up from the dealer, and take it to a different shop. It's obvious they don't know what is going on after their tech screwed something up, and are not interested in trying to fix it.
Is there ANYONE that knows of a Corvette shop in Albuquerque, New Mexico? I know it's a huge ask as this is the middle of nowhere, and honestly a miserable place to live. I miss Boston...
I would look locally for some performance shops, ones familiar with working on cars that are tracked. Then I would give them some specific numbers to work with. The factory specs are very broad. It looks like the tech kind of tried to get the numbers in, but still too much variation...IMHO.
I found a shop called Bruce's Corvettes here in town that works with the local Rio Grande Corvette Club. He will be taking the car after picking it up from the dealer, which should hopefully end this. He also recommended an alignment shop he uses exclusively to take it to as well.
I spoke to the dealer about the FE1/FE2 vs FE3 suspension, and he confirmed that the build sheet he pulled up says FE3, and doesn't know why the printout shows otherwise. He is going to "talk to the tech" but he believes it makes no difference. They also moved the rear tires back to their original positions and said the TPMS sensor issue should be resolved.
He also said his shop foreman would like to have me drive the car with him. I said I would be happy to accommodate, but I still feel nervous about the whole thing now by just looking at my build sheet, and I want the car back. I get the feeling I will pick it up, it won't pull with the foreman, and I can't really explain the feeling of the brakes other than, any more than an inch of travel and I should be feeling it grab. I shouldn't have to double pump it. You can only bleed them, so it seems like a second pressure bleed would take care of it.
I don't know, just want it properly fixed and move on, i'm over being angry.
Sounds like you are moving in the right direction. Too bad the dealer doesn't have a more experienced tech on the payroll. Some dealers have techs trained specifically for the Corvette. I'm sure Bruce's Corvettes is familiar with the Pfadt Alignment spec. In case you are not, it's a spec sheet assembled by one of the vendors highlighting performance oriented alignment specs. For street use, Pfadts specs as listed were GM numbers, just much tighter tolerances.
Unfortunately, it sounds like someone introduced a lot of air in your braking system. That can be a challenge to remove, plus you'll need a special tool to open the abs to flush it too.
Funny you mention the Pfadt Alignment, I gave them that sheet of paper when I asked for it to be aligned...should have mentioned that at the start. I gave them "Performance Street"
As well since my tires are 5 years old, but have 90% tread, I should replace them. Man, they really want me to keep spending money with them.
They got air into the brakes when they flushed the fluids because they are incompetent. Now it needs a Tech2 connected and an automated brake bleed. On most vehicles, it will not require even jacking up the vehicle. Simply plug it in, follow the prompts, hold the pedal while it does the brake bleed / pumps out the system, and it's done. Might need to do it a few times if it's really bad.
The inexcusable part of that is the auto brake bleed has been done on every vehicle since eons before that car was built. I'm talking back to the mid 90s. Someone there is 100% clueless about what a tech 2 does or how to properly bleed abs brakes.
PS. I bought my own Tech2 because of the general incompetence out there. $300.
I should also add, on my C5, I believe it could sense when air was downstream of the ABS module and would require bleeding the old fashioned way out at the calipers. Once that was done, then it would do the rest of the system and basically burp the air back up into the MC reservoir.
So sometimes you can do it from the drivers seat. Sometimes, might need to remove wheels and do the rest. The Tech2 will tell you which it needs.
And finally, I had the RR wheel replaced with a brand new one from GM (OEM GS wheel), along with a new an OEM GM TPMS sensor. I bent the wheel about a year ago, and just got to replacing it. (It had a slight vibration that wouldn't go away, but it was BY FAR not an issue.)
I get the car back, new wheel is on the LR and the dash is lit up about the RR sensor not working...if the new wheel and TPMS sensor on the the LR now, why would the RR sensor be complaining...???
I can think of a couple of TPMS programming screwups made either by your dealer or whoever serviced the car before them that could account for this. The first thing to do is to do a TPMS re-learn with the wheels where they are now. If one won't program, it likely has a bad sensor.
After calling the general manager for the dealership, he had the shop foreman take over yesterday afternoon.
I got a call right before closing giving me the following update. (Everything should be prefaced with "supposedly" I haven't picked the car up yet.)
The TPMS is fixed. They reset everything Tuesday morning, and it has been reading properly since, even after 25 miles.
They put it back up on the alignment rack, entered in the FE3 this time, and then it asked for a second RPO code, XFA (Tire Front P275/35ZR18 LL (87Y) BW RF4), and sure enough it comes up with a different alignment configuration. The tech wasn't putting the RPO codes in, then aligning it to a base model configuration. Foreman said it was much better after HE aligned it personally. My bet is the working alignment is very close to the original configuration when I brought it in. The last alignment was in September at MacMulkin Chevy in Nashua, NH.
Brakes were bled once again, to which the foreman said they felt better. Brakes are relative so I have to wait till it's my foot pressing to know. If they still feel off, I take it to Bruce's Corvette, let him pressure flush it and use the Tech2 for the auto-bleed function.
Over all, they seem to have gotten their act together when I gave up and went the the GM. I wasn't upset, I just calmly explained the situation, stated I was worried for my vehicle, and losing faith in the dealer.
Seems to have made a difference.
I pick up the car later today after work, so here is hoping for the best.
Good luck. I'm not very hopeful for your brakes though. If they got them wrong before, you're taking it somewhere else to get them done right. I'd probably be coming unglued about any brake bills at that point, just on principal. We're not talking about some corvette specific procedure here, this is everyday stuff on abs. Can you say, Inexcusable?
Picked the car up.
Still pulling to the right, and the brakes, while slightly better, still need a couple of inches before you feel any bite at all. It has to still have air in it.
They said they moved the tires back to their original positions; they didn't.
He also printed out my build sheet for me, which they used to get the correct RPO codes for the alignment. Well, instead of scanning the VIN, they fat fingered it into the system. The replaced a 6 with a 0...
So I dropped the car at Chet's Suspension here in town. They came recommended by Bruce's Corvette, my brother, and plenty of reviews, so I am hoping for the best.
They inspected all the paperwork from the dealer and made copies. They also have Hunter alignment/balancing equipment, so it might show something more than whatever the dealer has.
Once the alignment is fixed, I drop it with Bruce and let him fix my brakes.
Too bad the extended warranty doesn't cover this stuff.
Chet's alignment shop called and said the dealer alignment readout from last night wasn't really close at all to their machine. As well, they found the left outer tie-rod end was loose. While it wasn't so bad it would be a big deal, they called my extended warranty provider, and the tie-rod/labor and alignment are covered. So just $100 deductible out the door.
Pretty sure they won't cover the flush of the brake fluid, but so far, I am making out pretty well considering the ineptitude of the dealer.
I can send you or anyone the PHADT specs for the C6, I use them and like them. as far as cars pulling to the right. if you fell asleep behind the wheel which way would you like the car to go?
Sounds like they didn't center the wheel when doing the alignment. There is a steering wheel sensor that can be accessed, I think with a Tech-2, that would tell the tech when the steering wheel is exactly centered. I haven't used it, so I'm fuzzy on detail. A lot of shops do it by feel, and it isn't close enough for me.
Be prepared with the brake flush, it can be really tough getting all of the air out of the lines. You can also introduce micro bubbles - the bubbles are finer than champagne bubbles and you have to look hard to see them.
Sorry to hear about your local GM dealer, they are doing the local independents a great service by being so inept.
So final update.
Running like champ and I am super happy to have her back.
Picked up the car from Chet's last night. The specs that the dealer left the car at the previous night were not the same as what Chet's found when they put it on. I am waiting on a scan of the in/out paperwork, i'll post when I get it. He said the dealer has the following issue most likely. Their alignment machine is no longer properly calibrated AND they have an inept tech working on it.
After the alignment I stopped at Bruce's Corvette and had him take it for a spin. He said the brakes felt off as well. Open the hood, 30 seconds later he points the master cylinder and sees that the clutch master reservoir bracket is BEHIND the master, so it's actually between the master and booster. (See picture) As well, the brake fluid level sensor was not plugged in.
Bruce pulls the master and puts it back together properly, takes it for a spin and it's back to normal. He was amazed at the fact it was sealing at all. There should have been vacuum leak and a lean code for un-metered air, but the dealer got lucky.
His take on the situation went like this. The tech tried to bleed it but got air the system, ended up having to take the master out to bench bleed it, and put it back together wrong. Seems like a very plausible explanation to me.
The problem I see more often, is the use of the tech II alone to bleed the brakes.
The tech II will use the ABS to drive fluid through the system so you don't have to have a second person to bleed, but I still will go back in and have a second person brake pedal pump up the brakes to do a final quick bleed off on each caliber. Hence the brake pedal pump up will knock off any air bubbles trapped to the caliber seals, and make sure the final amounts of air is released from the system.
05-14-2019, 09:58 AM
Little help with brakes/alignment/balancing
