I'm new to the forum having just purchased a 2009 CSR Corvette that I intend to use for on-track HPDE events with NASA. Since the car is essentially a Z51, what brake pads would you recommend to stand up to a long day of high speed driving on the track. I know EBC makes their yellow stuff and orange stuff pads, and Hawk makes the HP (which, in the case of the HP pads I have heard some folks say that they do not hold up when used for serious high speed driving on-track.) I would greatly appreciate input from anyone here who has first-hand knowledge from using their C6 on-track. I'm not looking for information about street spec pads or ceramics. Does a pad exist that can stand up to on-track abuse without eating up the front rotors? Also, would anyone recommend removing dust shields or adding brake ducts, or do the Z51 front brakes have enough heat capacity without additional mods to the front brakes? I am starting with a bone-stock CSR.

 

Congrats on your purchase and welcome. Very nice car.

The front rotors will get eaten up no matter what you do. They are not designed to withstand the sustained heat and friction that will occur on a race track. For pads, Carbotech XP12 front and XP 8 rear is a good place to start for the track. The front OEM rotors will last about 4-6 days then crack, unless you are lolly gagging around. Once they do, move to a two piece rotor like DBA 5000 rotors on the front. You should also bleed the brakes and replace the brake fluid with Motul 600. I am not sure if this is your first time on track or not but there are other things you should do to prepare the car and yourself for the track. Happy to offer up other advice if you want it. You can also search my posts as I have helped alot of guys here. I'm a racer, instructor and have been tracking my car for years.

 

And just remember that track pads take a lot of heat until they grab fully, so don't try to run them on the street when the pads will never get up to that kind of temp to grab correctly instead.

 

Thanks guys. That was enough information for me to find the KNS Brakes website.
I think I will go with Mordeth's recommendation and get a set of DBA 5000 rotors and Carbotech XP12 pads. Can you drive to the track event with the XP12s or do you have to swap them out at the track?
The Hawk Brake Compound Chart is also informative. The Hawk Blue looks interesting as it has some braking performance cold but double the hot performance envelope of a stock pad. Looks like it would be much better performance that the Hawk Black I used to use on my old 2000 Camaro SS for HPDE back in the early 2000s. Could this be a pad that I can drive to the event and then run the car without having to swap out the pads in the pits?

Goes without saying that I need to upgrade the brake fluid. Would you recommend going with a stainless steel brakeline upgrade on the front brakes also?

 

So I was apparently just "lolly gagging around" during my first and only Track Day at High Plains Raceway. Fair enough.

I had the benefit very good advice from Dano523 and others here at CF. My 07 Base has Z51 rotors, and I replaced the pads with Duralast Gold Ceramics. I certainly babied these pads because I didn't know how they would last. Dano said 2 minutes around HPR would be great, and I had a fastest lap of 2:27 on Michelin A/S RFs. Smoking brakes, overpressured tires, overheated coolant, etc. That was in May, and the Duralast Gold Ceramics are still on the car ... they held up really well.

Now with a Diablo Custom Tune from Lew, a Vararam CAI, Front Splitter, Rear Spoiler, Cooper RS3-S Summer Performance tires and soon Hooker Axle Backs, I might go to HPR again. It is definitely a case of Driver Skill (or lack thereof) if this car cannot do two minutes flat around 2.55 miles of road racing. The car is obviously much quicker than it was back in May. I'm considering closing off the bottom under the radiator for what some say will be improved cooling. And I have a set of QuickJacks to use in replacing ALL of the fluids.

A set of Duralast Gold Ceramics are only a hundred bucks for all four corners. An inexpensive consumable. And it looks like from the chart/graphic Dano posted that the Hawk DTC-30 pads are an overall great set of Street/Track pads.

Mine will need rotors if I track again. How can I be sure I'm ordering the correct replacements for an '07 Base that has been fitted with Z51 rotors?

 

Yes you can drive those pads on the street to the track. However be aware that they will not operate at their full potential at low heat, so be wary. Additionally they will likely squeal. But otherwise are perfectly fine to drive to the track with them on. I would not use them for regular commuting though.

Upgrading the brake lines to stainless steel is also a good idea.

 

What tire will you be using?

 

Z51 calibers, use the same size pads as the base module calipers. On oem, it just that that z51 HD pad material is more aggressive that the base pad material instead.

As for the Z51 larger rotors over the base model size rotors, the downside is they are drilled, and spider crack at the drilled holes when pushed to HPDE type heat isntead. So for HPDE type rotor and pad heat, you want slotted rotors instead. The slot design allows for degassing, but does not make a weak point like the drilled rotors in the cast metal isntead. As for doing it right, two piece rotors, since this allow more flex while corning, and prevent the greater caliper kick out that can come with the stiffer single piece cast rotors instead.

Next on the list, with the great grip of the close to R type tires, it going to be put more stress on the OEM wheel bearing, so plan on SFK HD wheel bearing upgrades soon as the OEM wheel hubs give up the ghost quickly.

One last thing, and you don't have to go all poly bushing, but you do want to stiffen up the Rear lower a arm to cradle points. These 4 rubber bushing has a great deal flex in them to keep a smooth street ride, but on the way into corners on hard braking, and on the way out under hard power, it cause major changes in the rear tire camber/caster and even toe specs when the lower A arm has this much movement. Ferrari just uses spherical bushing to solve the problem from the start, but the spherical bushings have to be changed yearly, even if the car is just street driven.

So Drelin bushings for just these 4 points may be the way to go to get a more life out of them over spherical bushings for the way you are using the car, or could just cheat with the OEM rubber bushing by reaming the OD channel to remove a great deal of the thickness of the rubber, and using over size inserts in them isntead.

Bottom line, race stiff bushings is going to be brutal on the streets, but for what you are just using the car for with maybe only a few HPDE events, just focus on the rear lower A arm inner point to remove a lot of that lash out the rear suspension to increase lap times instead.




P.S, Need to install side skirts to help with the front end down force to help balance out for the new Zr1 type rear spoiler. Right now, you just increase on the rear down force (at the cost of drag) and this cause more front end lift instead. So front splinter helps, but you still have to prevent air from coming in from the front sides with skirts as well.

 

Earlier - you mentioned Hawk Blue Pads. IMO - they perform pretty darn well as track pads - but the dust they generate is pretty nasty to wheel finishes, particularly if the dust gets wet - at least that was the case about a decade ago when I knew people running them. So - I'd probably stay away from them unless you are either trailering to the track - or doing a pad change at the track - and using dedicated track tires/wheels that aren't as expensive as the OEM Wheels....

 

I remember that dust from the Hawk Black pads I used to use had the same corrosive effect on wheels as you describe with the Hawk Blue. Do the DTC30 pads also have that issue?

 

Dano523, my CSR has close to 70K on it and I can feel the back end walking around under hard acceleration even on the street. Your post and video does a good job of explaining why. So a Delran bushing upgrade in the lower control arms makes perfect sense. Do you know off-hand where those bushings can be sourced?

 

There are apparently a few sources, although search results are not quite as good as I would have expected:

CARid.com:
https://www.carid.com/2007-chevy-cor...sion-bushings/

Other Sources:
http://www.tpsmotorsports.com/corvet...shing-kit.html

https://afepower.com/afe-power-470-4...rm-bushing-set

ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Corvette-C5...gAAOSw~TNcQJjH

Pfadt via WildVettes:
http://www.wildvettes.com/product_in...roducts_id/308

.
I'm gonna have to consider these myself ...

 

Dano is correct on the control arm bushings. However, the uppers will fail as well. Over time the bushing will begin to extrude from the control arm. It will also dry out, harden and crack.

You have two good options. Delrin or Spherical. Avoid poly. Contrary to what Dano says, spherical does not need to be changed every year. I have spherical bearings on my C6Z race car and they last years and years and years. The issue is that it will significantly change (for the worse) the NVH (Noise, Vibration and Harshness). For a street car that is occasionally tracked, stick with Delrin. It will still impact NVH, but not as harsh as spherical. If you do the bushings, do all of them and don't screw around with just the lowers. Delrin will need servicing/lubrication once or twice a year. They are not easy to install (but not impossible either). The rubber bushing needs to be pressed out of the arm (or pried out on a vice) and the new delrin pressed back in. I've done them in my garage but you need to correct tools.

Get them from here: https://www.borgmotorsports.com/coll...=4691915440162

You should also consider upgrading the shocks all around the car. The OEM shocks are not up to the task. A worthy upgrade for a street driven Vette that is tracked on occasion are DRM valved Bilstein shocks. These are relatively inexpensive and will help to settle the rear end, mitigate the "bounciness" and help to firm things up a bit on track.

 

Speaking as someone who had also moved to the DRM valved Bilsteins they make a very substantial difference in how the car feels on the street. When you are driving on some of the poorly maintained Highways in the Northeast - you will definitely experience more "feedback" from the car. Everyone's idea of objectionable is different - I kinda figure if you want a nice smooth ride, and a lot of insulation from the road - then you should probably avoid Corvettes, Porsches, and other "Sports Cars" and go to more of a "Touring Car" (think Mercedes "C" Sedans, or maybe a nice Acura RL. But I also know that is not how a lot of Corvette buyers feel - many do not order the Z51 / GS / Z06 level suspensions....

If your idea of a nice ride in your Vette involves dinner with your wife / girlfriend / significant other at a country club - you probably want to avoid the DRM valved Bilsteins. If, on the other hand - you see a deserted off ramp, and instantly start thinking of braking late, and the line you want to take - you'll probably like 'em.... Just my $0.02...

 

For my first day on track with the 2009 CSR, I ended up using CarboTech XP12 on front and rear, stock rotors and ATE 200 brake fluid. Brakes worked very well running NASA HPDE3 at NJMP Thunderbolt on 10/19/19. I had no issues even including hauling the car down from 135MPH at the end of the main straight. Rotors did not warp or heat crack. The power steering did overheat however, spraying power steering fluid all over the sound insulation on the back of the hood and generally getting the engine compartment slimy with fluid. Apparently, a power steering cooler is required.

 

I had thought the z51 came with one, but clearly I am mistaken. Swap the fluid over to redline synthetic, It takes heat better than the factory stuff.

 

Other threads point to the Z51 having a power steering cooler from the factory, but apparently in my case it does not dissipate enough heat for hard track use. So I need a bigger one. Is the Z06 bigger, and can it be bolted in to a Z51 without much modification? I will take your suggestion and upgrade to Redline synthetic also.

 

As far as I know it is the same, but I am not positive. Now, in your first post you said it is essentially a z51. essentially... whatever that entails. Have you double checked that you do indeed have a power steering cooler? It's mounted to the front of the engine subframe, look directly above the sway bar. You can't miss it if you have one. Changing to new fluid will make a difference, and using Redline will make an even bigger difference. After that, if you do have a cooler and you're still overheating the redline, then a Turn One pump is the next step.

But if you've got a cooler and are running Redline and are still overheating the fluid without huge sticky tires and aero I think you might have something else going on.

First steps first though. Confirm that you have a cooler, then swap out the fluid.