Header question
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 1
Header question
Hey what's going on. New to the LS life so don't flame me too bad lol. Been looking at long tubes along with X-pipe. Pretty sure I've decided mostly on a set but I want to hear some insights before I really buy.
I've tried to google the answer more or less and my conclusion is not a huge difference in power for NA power.
Header collector spike vs no spike. I know I'll lose some scavenging but I wonder if it's really a big draw back.
Car for reference is a LS3 that will just be bolt ons until I decide to do a heads/cam setup in the future.
Thanks!
I've tried to google the answer more or less and my conclusion is not a huge difference in power for NA power.
Header collector spike vs no spike. I know I'll lose some scavenging but I wonder if it's really a big draw back.
Car for reference is a LS3 that will just be bolt ons until I decide to do a heads/cam setup in the future.
Thanks!
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 26,512
Likes: 351
From: ST. CHARLES IL
95% of all headers out there for the C6 will be the same. All power output is similar, we usually see 35-40rwhp with a tune. The biggest difference is quality and fitment. You get what you pay for. If you need any help selecting yours pm us or give us a call. Always glad to help out.
You don't need a tune but it's highly recommended. You will get a check engine light with headers, if not right away it will eventually pop up. We have been offering a free tune if you order HP tuners from us.
You don't need a tune but it's highly recommended. You will get a check engine light with headers, if not right away it will eventually pop up. We have been offering a free tune if you order HP tuners from us.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,213
Likes: 643
From: Orange County Ca
"95% of all headers out there for the C6 will be the same. All power output is similar, we usually see 35-40rwhp with a tune"
I find this very interesting.
I wonder what the increase would be with just a tune?
I'm tending to think that the tune accounts for most of the gain.
Obviously, headers should be a plus. Definitely with old school exhaust manifolds. But with the c6/ls3 exhaust system, I wonder.
An example of gains with a better system would be the factory npp system. A straight through muffler pipe vs a 180+ deg turn in the mufflers, only equals 6hp.
So with a stock engine with just bolt on's, other than the coolness factor, are headers really worth the price and potential problems?
I find this very interesting.
I wonder what the increase would be with just a tune?
I'm tending to think that the tune accounts for most of the gain.
Obviously, headers should be a plus. Definitely with old school exhaust manifolds. But with the c6/ls3 exhaust system, I wonder.
An example of gains with a better system would be the factory npp system. A straight through muffler pipe vs a 180+ deg turn in the mufflers, only equals 6hp.
So with a stock engine with just bolt on's, other than the coolness factor, are headers really worth the price and potential problems?
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 1
95% of all headers out there for the C6 will be the same. All power output is similar, we usually see 35-40rwhp with a tune. The biggest difference is quality and fitment. You get what you pay for. If you need any help selecting yours pm us or give us a call. Always glad to help out.
You don't need a tune but it's highly recommended. You will get a check engine light with headers, if not right away it will eventually pop up. We have been offering a free tune if you order HP tuners from us.
You don't need a tune but it's highly recommended. You will get a check engine light with headers, if not right away it will eventually pop up. We have been offering a free tune if you order HP tuners from us.
What all is needed besides the credit for HP tuners?
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 1
"95% of all headers out there for the C6 will be the same. All power output is similar, we usually see 35-40rwhp with a tune"
I find this very interesting.
I wonder what the increase would be with just a tune?
I'm tending to think that the tune accounts for most of the gain.
Obviously, headers should be a plus. Definitely with old school exhaust manifolds. But with the c6/ls3 exhaust system, I wonder.
An example of gains with a better system would be the factory npp system. A straight through muffler pipe vs a 180+ deg turn in the mufflers, only equals 6hp.
So with a stock engine with just bolt on's, other than the coolness factor, are headers really worth the price and potential problems?
I find this very interesting.
I wonder what the increase would be with just a tune?
I'm tending to think that the tune accounts for most of the gain.
Obviously, headers should be a plus. Definitely with old school exhaust manifolds. But with the c6/ls3 exhaust system, I wonder.
An example of gains with a better system would be the factory npp system. A straight through muffler pipe vs a 180+ deg turn in the mufflers, only equals 6hp.
So with a stock engine with just bolt on's, other than the coolness factor, are headers really worth the price and potential problems?
I'm more or less interested in the spike in the collector vs not and if it's really that big of a deal.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,213
Likes: 643
From: Orange County Ca
That's true, but how much would you gain with just a tune?
What do headers cost, installed?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...dyno-tune.html
You can get a nitrous system for less than $1k, plus installation (most home mechanics could install these themselves).
Cost vs value/hp does matter.
What do headers cost, installed?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...dyno-tune.html
You can get a nitrous system for less than $1k, plus installation (most home mechanics could install these themselves).
Cost vs value/hp does matter.
Last edited by Sayfoo; Nov 6, 2020 at 07:51 PM.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 1
That's true, but how much would you gain with just a tune?
What do headers cost, installed?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...dyno-tune.html
You can get a nitrous system for less than $1k, plus installation (most home mechanics could install these themselves).
Cost vs value/hp does matter.
What do headers cost, installed?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...dyno-tune.html
You can get a nitrous system for less than $1k, plus installation (most home mechanics could install these themselves).
Cost vs value/hp does matter.
Dyno tuning may yield 15-25 whp maybe more. We'll see when that road comes about lol
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,321
Likes: 523
From: home
My preference is ARH. These seem to make the most power on the dyno. Whatever brand you choose, here a few things I do when installing headers. Some may not be needed.
1- wrap the starter housing and solenoid.
2- use metallic heat shield (i.e. DEI) on the primary tubes closest to the starter and oil cooler pipes, secure with metal self locking band straps. It comes in sheets, cut as needed with tin snips.
3- I cut the tunnel plate into 2 pieces right where there is a notch in the tunnel, between the 4th and 5th bolt, and notch one side of the plate then run the O2 wires up in between the tunnel plate and torque tube.
4- fire sleeve the O2 connectors and secure as far away from the headers as possible with wire ties.
5- fire sleeve the 2 trans cooler pipes where they go over the right side header collector.
6- wrap the right side header collector at the trans cooler pipe area, see #2.
7- fire sleeve the 2 heater hoses.
8- add additional fire sleeve to the wire harness behind #8 primary tube.
9- add a small piece of fire sleeve over the purple wire and connector on the starter solenoid.
10- rotate the knock sensors as needed for additional clearance and secure wiring with wire ties.
11- fire sleeve the clutch slave cylinder line.
12- depending on header brand, heat shield #7 primary tube if close to slave cylinder line.
13- add heat boots to the plug wires and secure the coil end with wire ties.
14- if not already there, fire sleeve the engine mounts.
15- use high temp antisieze on all the bolts and the oxygen sensors.
16- no header wrap. I also have had high temp coatings peel off. may work ok for a street car.
17- check for clearance between the chassis flange and where the 4 tubes join the collectors on both sides. Depending on header brand, I have had to bend the chassis flanges with a hammer. Not required on aluminum frame cars.
1- wrap the starter housing and solenoid.
2- use metallic heat shield (i.e. DEI) on the primary tubes closest to the starter and oil cooler pipes, secure with metal self locking band straps. It comes in sheets, cut as needed with tin snips.
3- I cut the tunnel plate into 2 pieces right where there is a notch in the tunnel, between the 4th and 5th bolt, and notch one side of the plate then run the O2 wires up in between the tunnel plate and torque tube.
4- fire sleeve the O2 connectors and secure as far away from the headers as possible with wire ties.
5- fire sleeve the 2 trans cooler pipes where they go over the right side header collector.
6- wrap the right side header collector at the trans cooler pipe area, see #2.
7- fire sleeve the 2 heater hoses.
8- add additional fire sleeve to the wire harness behind #8 primary tube.
9- add a small piece of fire sleeve over the purple wire and connector on the starter solenoid.
10- rotate the knock sensors as needed for additional clearance and secure wiring with wire ties.
11- fire sleeve the clutch slave cylinder line.
12- depending on header brand, heat shield #7 primary tube if close to slave cylinder line.
13- add heat boots to the plug wires and secure the coil end with wire ties.
14- if not already there, fire sleeve the engine mounts.
15- use high temp antisieze on all the bolts and the oxygen sensors.
16- no header wrap. I also have had high temp coatings peel off. may work ok for a street car.
17- check for clearance between the chassis flange and where the 4 tubes join the collectors on both sides. Depending on header brand, I have had to bend the chassis flanges with a hammer. Not required on aluminum frame cars.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 13,262
Likes: 3,150
From: SW Florida
2021 C6 of the Year Finalist - Modified
My bone stock 2011 GS / LS3 with automatic trans: 371 RWHP on the Dynojet
Added 1 3/4" headers with cats and a dyno tune: 405 RWHP on the same Dynojet
Gain of 34 RWHP
Added 1 3/4" headers with cats and a dyno tune: 405 RWHP on the same Dynojet
Gain of 34 RWHP
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 171
From: Auburn Al
Should have put 1 7/8 on an LS3, and I hate too say it because the forum engineers are going to flame me but. You would have got that bump from the tune alone, my LS2 347.4 after just a tune 379.9
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 1
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,213
Likes: 643
From: Orange County Ca
99% of what I read is that with headers and a tune, I'd get xx% increase.
Since the ls3 manifolds are pretty good, I wondered where the major increase would be.
As I posted before, the npp option is only good for 6hp, and it deletes a major obstruction in the mufflers/exhaust system.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,106
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Don't get concerned with things like spike vs no spike, until you've extracted most of the fruit at the top of the tree. Once you understand the flow as related to heat, volume, velocity, and that can physically work within the confines and limitations of your car, you'll see that spikes are an expensive waste of resources for a street driven car. Also be aware that wrapping exhaust parts to protect other heat sensitive parts will change the dynamics of exhaust flow. We don't have the technology to extract the maximum power through optimization of the exhaust system, so we are left with compromises of what is currently available.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 171
From: Auburn Al
Originally Posted by Sayfoo
Great, this is what I'm trying to learn.
99% of what I read is that with headers and a tune, I'd get xx% increase.
Since the ls3 manifolds are pretty good, I wondered where the major increase would be.
As I posted before, the npp option is only good for 6hp, and it deletes a major obstruction in the mufflers/exhaust system.
99% of what I read is that with headers and a tune, I'd get xx% increase.
Since the ls3 manifolds are pretty good, I wondered where the major increase would be.
As I posted before, the npp option is only good for 6hp, and it deletes a major obstruction in the mufflers/exhaust system.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 171
From: Auburn Al
Originally Posted by farmington
If you do the math, 2 2.5” pipes have half the area of a single 5” pipe.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 1,133
From: North Myrtle Beach SC
The ls2 intake has been known as junk from day 1. Porting one is like putting perfume on a pig, it smells nicer but it’s still a pig. There are very few engine mods that will give you positive results in 100% of the curve. You need to decide where you want improvement and focus on what you need to get you there.
