Where to dyno?
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 51
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From: Vancouver, Wa
Where to dyno?
Car = 2010 C6 GS 3LT M6 (LS3). Has 14,600 miles. I live in the NW - in south Wa state.
Build = 1 7/8" ARH with Catted X-pipe into my NPP, SpinMonster cam (TxSpd grind), Johnson 2110 lifters, new lifter trays, Manton 11/32" pushrods, BTR 660" duel springs, Rod-mod intake, C5-R Katech chain, new Power-Bond race balancer & bolt, Heads milled 0.020" with valves sunk 0.020" and hand lapped (long story), ARP Head bolts, LS9 head gaskets, stock CAI with the shroud opened up (cold air). All of it meticulously assembled by yours-truly! I've built many engines over the years, but this was my first LS - very interesting.
Tune: Mustang Dyno'd at a local shop on a cool day. To my knowledge he only did three3 dyno pulls during the tune, and that was that, no street tune or test drive (I was there). Results = 440 rwhp/435 rwtq was the best he could do, and out the door - done. No I'm NOT HAPPY! I honestly do not know why it turned out this way, but that power is obviously way waaaay low for this very common build (I hope Spin Monster isn't reading this). Even on a Mustang it should be in the 465-475 range... I've seen it a dozen times on here over the years, which is exactly why I did this build = no drama.
We ALL know the SpinMonster cam is a drives like stock, makes great power, has no surging, no bucking, and only 4 degrees overlap - tried & true custom cam. My car now has noticeable but mild surging or tremors at all rpm, the gas mileage has dropped dramatically and the idle is... geeze THE IDLE = Take your foot off the gas and the rpm drops to 1000 and hangs there for 2-3 seconds, then it slowly drops to 900 where it starts to chop and shake the car badly for about +3-4 seconds, and then slowly (3-5 seconds) drifts down to 800 where it eventually simmers to a lopey idle sounding sort of like the SpinMonster should, but not really...and yes my Vette tremors and shakes a bit at idle.... quite SAD! He said, quote; "All these big cams do that, can't be helped." Ahem... no comment!
This is a mild cam by most accounts, and none of this should be happening.. but enough whining. Oh and Yes; When I'm deep in the throttle the car pulls much harder than stock, and indeed it pulls quite smoothly too, no complaints. BUT I spend maybe 10% of the time doing THAT kind of driving, thus 90% of my driving is just plain old driving, and that's when this wonderful new surging/tremor thing happens - lord. I'm up there in years now, no racer-boy (anymore), so this MUST be made right cuz momma is definitely not happy with me messing around with our wonderful Vette!
I'm of course going to get it retuned, but where? I'm tempted to sell a few things and ship the car to a well known tuning shop like PatG in Tx, or CT Performance in Mi, or some other far away shop, BUT those are half way across the country from me - huge $$ to ship! Looking for LS tuning shop recommendations in other areas of Washington, or anywhere in Oregon, Idaho, Calif....neighboring states, all recommendations will be considered, especially a shop that doesn't use a Mustang.
Note: My only nagging question is "are my pushrods correct or could they be too long?" Those Johnsons are tricky with a very tight preload tolerance. If they're too long, 'could that cause all this crap?' I am told no. Since I'd never done this pushrod measuring dance before, I talked to countless builders on the how/what/why of measuring, especially Manton, and was incredibly careful measuring EVERY hole, and it took many hours.
And NO, no, no, I'm not going to name or purposely trash the shop that did the tune... what would be the point? That money is spent, that story is over & done, and I'm simply moving forward looking for a competent LS tuner to make things right. Any ideas? Hey - look at the videos of BigRons SpinMonster build ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkK...1PL8hhXfgttwMw ). He's a forum member and a friend, and we expected my Vette to turn out close to his.. and god willing it will be someday quite soon hopefully. Perhaps CT Performance will see my car.... they tuned his car perfectly, but Michigan? Who knows.
Okay - Thank you so kindly for reading thru that, and any input you can share. Stay healthy and safe.
Build = 1 7/8" ARH with Catted X-pipe into my NPP, SpinMonster cam (TxSpd grind), Johnson 2110 lifters, new lifter trays, Manton 11/32" pushrods, BTR 660" duel springs, Rod-mod intake, C5-R Katech chain, new Power-Bond race balancer & bolt, Heads milled 0.020" with valves sunk 0.020" and hand lapped (long story), ARP Head bolts, LS9 head gaskets, stock CAI with the shroud opened up (cold air). All of it meticulously assembled by yours-truly! I've built many engines over the years, but this was my first LS - very interesting.
Tune: Mustang Dyno'd at a local shop on a cool day. To my knowledge he only did three3 dyno pulls during the tune, and that was that, no street tune or test drive (I was there). Results = 440 rwhp/435 rwtq was the best he could do, and out the door - done. No I'm NOT HAPPY! I honestly do not know why it turned out this way, but that power is obviously way waaaay low for this very common build (I hope Spin Monster isn't reading this). Even on a Mustang it should be in the 465-475 range... I've seen it a dozen times on here over the years, which is exactly why I did this build = no drama.
We ALL know the SpinMonster cam is a drives like stock, makes great power, has no surging, no bucking, and only 4 degrees overlap - tried & true custom cam. My car now has noticeable but mild surging or tremors at all rpm, the gas mileage has dropped dramatically and the idle is... geeze THE IDLE = Take your foot off the gas and the rpm drops to 1000 and hangs there for 2-3 seconds, then it slowly drops to 900 where it starts to chop and shake the car badly for about +3-4 seconds, and then slowly (3-5 seconds) drifts down to 800 where it eventually simmers to a lopey idle sounding sort of like the SpinMonster should, but not really...and yes my Vette tremors and shakes a bit at idle.... quite SAD! He said, quote; "All these big cams do that, can't be helped." Ahem... no comment!
This is a mild cam by most accounts, and none of this should be happening.. but enough whining. Oh and Yes; When I'm deep in the throttle the car pulls much harder than stock, and indeed it pulls quite smoothly too, no complaints. BUT I spend maybe 10% of the time doing THAT kind of driving, thus 90% of my driving is just plain old driving, and that's when this wonderful new surging/tremor thing happens - lord. I'm up there in years now, no racer-boy (anymore), so this MUST be made right cuz momma is definitely not happy with me messing around with our wonderful Vette!
I'm of course going to get it retuned, but where? I'm tempted to sell a few things and ship the car to a well known tuning shop like PatG in Tx, or CT Performance in Mi, or some other far away shop, BUT those are half way across the country from me - huge $$ to ship! Looking for LS tuning shop recommendations in other areas of Washington, or anywhere in Oregon, Idaho, Calif....neighboring states, all recommendations will be considered, especially a shop that doesn't use a Mustang.
Note: My only nagging question is "are my pushrods correct or could they be too long?" Those Johnsons are tricky with a very tight preload tolerance. If they're too long, 'could that cause all this crap?' I am told no. Since I'd never done this pushrod measuring dance before, I talked to countless builders on the how/what/why of measuring, especially Manton, and was incredibly careful measuring EVERY hole, and it took many hours.
And NO, no, no, I'm not going to name or purposely trash the shop that did the tune... what would be the point? That money is spent, that story is over & done, and I'm simply moving forward looking for a competent LS tuner to make things right. Any ideas? Hey - look at the videos of BigRons SpinMonster build ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkK...1PL8hhXfgttwMw ). He's a forum member and a friend, and we expected my Vette to turn out close to his.. and god willing it will be someday quite soon hopefully. Perhaps CT Performance will see my car.... they tuned his car perfectly, but Michigan? Who knows.
Okay - Thank you so kindly for reading thru that, and any input you can share. Stay healthy and safe.
Last edited by Old Country; Sep 25, 2021 at 02:28 AM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 51
Likes: 24
From: Vancouver, Wa
Thx BigRon, always good and appreciated.
FYI - In the last week I've now met two other Vette owners in this area, totally random happenings and at different car events. Turns out they both had their Vettes tuned at 'that place' too and both were openly dis-satisfied with the experience and tune (C6 straight-body and a C7 Z06). One commented he went back to try and get it fix'd and met the 'what do you expect me to do?' kinda look - very strange business. It was the same story as mine, and just as bewildered at the result. But hey, ha, ha life goes on - It's big boy pants time = that's life, ha... happens, and we learn.
This certainly says a LOT about the TUNE being one of the most crucial components in an LS build, something I never really grasped I guess. I got a couple of dyno shops leads that do Vettes in the area I'll looking into next week (within 100 miles).
If those don't bare-fruit, then I'll give that GP Tuning a shout in California, see what comes. Thanks very much for that heads-up Ron!!
The journey continues. Be good Wild-Man!
FYI - In the last week I've now met two other Vette owners in this area, totally random happenings and at different car events. Turns out they both had their Vettes tuned at 'that place' too and both were openly dis-satisfied with the experience and tune (C6 straight-body and a C7 Z06). One commented he went back to try and get it fix'd and met the 'what do you expect me to do?' kinda look - very strange business. It was the same story as mine, and just as bewildered at the result. But hey, ha, ha life goes on - It's big boy pants time = that's life, ha... happens, and we learn.
This certainly says a LOT about the TUNE being one of the most crucial components in an LS build, something I never really grasped I guess. I got a couple of dyno shops leads that do Vettes in the area I'll looking into next week (within 100 miles).
If those don't bare-fruit, then I'll give that GP Tuning a shout in California, see what comes. Thanks very much for that heads-up Ron!!
The journey continues. Be good Wild-Man!
