I said "false back", not "false outlet." Big difference. What I mean by "false back", is the customer can't see that the two tips join into one, because the "Y" is inside the muffler housing.

So Mr_Roy, are you telling me two functional outlets couldn't be done? I don't think you are. If Bob Lutz said I want two functional pipes coming out of the mufflers, with as good or better sound, believe me, it would have been done - especially on a car that's redesigned from the ground up. If necessary they would have enlisted the help of GMES, and put a crew of engineers on the job. Engineering is all about innovation and compromise. Someone at GM decided that they were not going to compromise something else on the car, or spend the money to get two real outlets.

I don't think they should compromise anything on a Corvette, which is going to result in something being visibly "fake". It just ruins the image of the car, relative to its competition.

GM does have some of the best engineers in the world - no insult to GM engineers intended. GM engineers have my utmost respect. You have to agree, though, that GM also wastes a lot of those engineers, putting them on ridiculous projects where their talent can't be used. GM could build the best cars in the world, if the company wasn't so mired in politics. I'm not saying some of the engineering is sloppy, because the engineers are poor. I think most of the sloppy engineering is because good, if not great, engineers are not allowed to do their jobs.

Mr_Roy, could you comment on the cross-over pipe? Was there any horsepower gain? Is it there to reduce a resonance? Did you test the sound without one (ala GTO)?

Michael

 

Mr_Roy
can you share with us the PSI backpressure at say, 6000 rpm WOT?
Did you try any old muffler designs during development, such as the 65 Corvair turbo muffler? i wonder how it would stack up against the c6 muffler?
Thanks

 

** Mr_Roy, please read. **

First off, I think you guys have done a great job. You had been successful to "convert" me to a Vette after owning 3 911 in a row.

I am a little bit concern about the "quietness" of the C6 exhaust. If you look at the 911 community, they had the same philosophy to make it "quiet and sophiscated" when they introduced the 996 in 1998. It became one of the biggest complaints it spawned a whole sub-industry of aftermarket exhaust - many of which causes reduction in performance.

Porsche then tried to fix it in 2002 but the sound level was still very lacking. The ultimate answer was a factory option called "Porsche Sport Exhaust". It sounded great and they even have a switch on the console to switch between loud or quiet mode (operates a valve in the muffler). Most of us would install the exhaust without the switch which means it's in loud mode all the time.

In any case, if the Vette exhaust is as quiet as people has reported so far, I think you will find a lot of people looking for aftermarket upgrade. I am concerned about Dave Hill's comment that most aftermarket tweek will result in loss of performance.

GM should really come out with a factory "Sport Exhaust" option. Part of the motoring fun is hearing the engine and exhaust notes. It's not being a kid, as you mentioned. It's just part of the motoring experience, and part of an all important connection between the driver and the machine.


[Modified by Paul_SF, 4:22 PM 6/1/2004]


[Modified by Paul_SF, 4:23 PM 6/1/2004]

 

i like a little audible feedback.
looking forward to hearing the new exhaust.

 

"When I start my car, I want people to think that the world is coming to an end".

 

It truly annoys me when a seemingly expensive car makes more noise going down the road, in street traffic, than a garbage truck. Do those who need exhaust systems that trumpet their departure expect a round of applause?
Perhaps those folks who need an audible codpiece to make themselves feel important are compensating for a lack of something.. else.

Finally, do you really want to tell the cop sitting behind the billboard that you're "loud and proud?" Not me, son.

 

Well there are a lot of people who say the same thing about Corvette owners in general....

 

Yeah, but if they say it while I'm driving my C6 with the roof off, I'll HEAR them. :p:


[Modified by SinCityJet, 12:51 AM 6/10/2004]

 

I am not wild about the two into four tips either. If two was the way to go for the requirements, then they should have stuck to two tips. That being said, it hardly makes a difference as it seems very few people have left their C5 systems as stock and alot of people (myself included) went with the ZO6 system because we like it better. Some people want LOUD, and I am sure the aftermarket will cover you there. You don't want them to build a car with nothing to mod do you? Also, keep in mind how much this car has offered (for the price) over its history and comparisons to cars at three times the price mean nothing unless you are talking about performance.

 

Good point !!

 

"I want a horn here, here and here. You can NEVER find a horn when you're angry!"

 

Kudos to the engineers for making a fast sports car that is so quiet. That is quite an accomplishment.
While i could build a faster car, it would not be quiet.
Any muffler shop can negate their efforts (if the owner went to too many rock concerts, and is hard of hearing.

 

While I like hearing some engine sound, I also appreciate the work GM has done to get rid of the annoying resonance at about the 1800 rpm point. That resonance just gave me a headache. Remember how bad the C4 was for this? The C5 is much better, and it sounds like they are putting the same, if not more effort, into producing a refined exhaust system. If the choice is a louder exhaust with resonance, or quieter without resonance, I would take the quieter without resonance.

 

The placement of the cross-over tube was done using CFD. It was optimized to minimize backpressure, maximize power and torque, and reduce resonance. Sorry guys but no more boom. We had to do this for reasons I would never post here. Our competition reads this stuff too and no way am I going to help them out. The C6 is an amazing car. I think we have raised the bar in sports car performance and refinement. That is why I am so passionate about the people I work with everyday. We represent the best that American engineering has to offer. The greatest satisfaction is seeing this car go to Europe and generate awesome lap times at the Ring. When you combine that with the acceleration, 1/4 mile time, fuel economy, and top speed the C6 is an awesome value for the $. And then we have Z06...

 

I have to say MR_Roy, that I have the utmost respect for the Corvette engineers. Delivering a world class sports car that most can afford during their mid life crisis is the true spirit of america.

The fact that you (and I hope more) an engineer on the platform come here and participate makes me very proud of the corvette team. It makes all of us feel closer to the platform, and more educated about it's design.

Now go tell your cubicle mates in the powertrain department to join us. We won't ask for trade secrets, but love to learn more.

 

So Roy, you are the C6 exhaust engineer? I did not think GM allowed contact with the public.

Why not learn some things from the aftermarket guys like using the an x-pipe crossover and tuning the exhaust for a nice tone? Ford seems to have it right on the Mustang and my old Firebird sounded better than the C6. With every C5 I have owned I had to go to aftermarket exhaust to get the right tone. This will happen with the C6. As an engineer, I have always designed for the customer but I do understand the corporate red tape/restrictions.

 

Do the design parameters for the c6 exhaust specifiy that they have to pass the draconian swiss levels?

I think the first thing anyone buying a new Ferrari does is order a tubi system. Kinda like C5 owners making a beeline for some stingers

 

You want louder and cheap, simply cut of the pipe before it y's and replace with a straight pipe,, you would be suprised how much those holes inside the exhaust tips deaden sound... could always be put back with band clamps. But what do I know.

 

Well, it sound like you guys have done great thngs for the Z06, which is what I'm waiting for. The only question is whether I'll be able to afford it The real issue for me regarding exhaust sound is driver feedback. It boils down to whether I can get a sense of engine RPM and power without looking at the tach. This is very important on the track. I'll be comparing the base coupe with 1SA and Z51 to the Z06. I hope I can justify and afford the difference. If there is truly new technology in the exhaust system for the Z06, GM might be leaving money on the table by not offering it as an optional sport system on the C6.