Could this be it..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,041
Likes: 0
From: Cali for ya Republic
Well, yes. Building cars that people will buy has always been a whole lot of trouble. Not sure what you mean by entertaining Mom and Pop in the showroom but I do know that there are more formidable competitors in this business than ever before and AWD isn't going away any time soon.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,559
Likes: 4,501
From: North Dallas 40 TX
AWD in a non-hybrid configuration is a deadend. Do none of you read the papers? Do you not keep up with the news. Do you not keep up with automotive regulations?
The move is to higher mileage cars by law. Higher mileage is achieved through better aerodynamics, lower rolling resistance, less driveline drag, more efficient engines/motor configurations and lower weight. AWD increases weight, rolling resistance, and driveline drag, and does nothing to make the other 2 better.
I am not against AWD as an option because I hate 4 driven wheels. I am against it because of the compromises that will be made to the RWD configuration to accomodate the option of having AWD. I am against sub-optimizing the RWD configuration to make the AWD option practical. Those compromises go against what makes an exciting sports car for me. If you want an AWD car, go buy one of the sub-optimized sports cars that have it, or a sedan. Do mess with my future car. Yes, I know that is selfish, but I am at peace with myself on that.
The move is to higher mileage cars by law. Higher mileage is achieved through better aerodynamics, lower rolling resistance, less driveline drag, more efficient engines/motor configurations and lower weight. AWD increases weight, rolling resistance, and driveline drag, and does nothing to make the other 2 better.
I am not against AWD as an option because I hate 4 driven wheels. I am against it because of the compromises that will be made to the RWD configuration to accomodate the option of having AWD. I am against sub-optimizing the RWD configuration to make the AWD option practical. Those compromises go against what makes an exciting sports car for me. If you want an AWD car, go buy one of the sub-optimized sports cars that have it, or a sedan. Do mess with my future car. Yes, I know that is selfish, but I am at peace with myself on that.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
All those things would be good too but I'm not holding my breath. I'm not even predicting AWD on the C7. I'm just pointing out that it is becoming important to a growing number of potential customers. Offer it as an option to those who want it. The rest can pass on it. Use hybrid technologies that don't require designing around the AWD. I've read all the objections but GM has to sell cars. Might just be better to build what people want instead of taking a purist approach and losing out to innovative competitors.
if it increases sales then it is a good thing for everyone, GM/Chevrolet and the consumers/enthusiasts like us who want to see the Corvette line survive/live on.But for every one sale gained by introducing AWD (be it a hybrid style AWD or even traditional) to the Corvette (and there certainly could be at least some sales stolen from the Nissan GTR and 911 Carrera4) they could also lose three more due to the increased design/production/manufacturing costs and the added weight/decreased fuel economy/increased insurance costs (more moving parts/vehicle content = more costly and laborious to repair/replace).
Yes, an AWD Corvette certainly could take the sports car market by storm, but there definitely IS a risk involved.
AWD in a non-hybrid configuration is a deadend. Do none of you read the papers? Do you not keep up with the news. Do you not keep up with automotive regulations?
The move is to higher mileage cars by law. Higher mileage is achieved through better aerodynamics, lower rolling resistance, less driveline drag, more efficient engines/motor configurations and lower weight. AWD increases weight, rolling resistance, and driveline drag, and does nothing to make the other 2 better.
I am not against AWD as an option because I hate 4 driven wheels. I am against it because of the compromises that will be made to the RWD configuration to accomodate the option of having AWD. I am against sub-optimizing the RWD configuration to make the AWD option practical. Those compromises go against what makes an exciting sports car for me. If you want an AWD car, go buy one of the sub-optimized sports cars that have it, or a sedan. Do mess with my future car. Yes, I know that is selfish, but I am at peace with myself on that.
The move is to higher mileage cars by law. Higher mileage is achieved through better aerodynamics, lower rolling resistance, less driveline drag, more efficient engines/motor configurations and lower weight. AWD increases weight, rolling resistance, and driveline drag, and does nothing to make the other 2 better.
I am not against AWD as an option because I hate 4 driven wheels. I am against it because of the compromises that will be made to the RWD configuration to accomodate the option of having AWD. I am against sub-optimizing the RWD configuration to make the AWD option practical. Those compromises go against what makes an exciting sports car for me. If you want an AWD car, go buy one of the sub-optimized sports cars that have it, or a sedan. Do mess with my future car. Yes, I know that is selfish, but I am at peace with myself on that.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,027
Likes: 0
From: The Lost Borough, NYC
AWD in a non-hybrid configuration is a deadend. Do none of you read the papers? Do you not keep up with the news. Do you not keep up with automotive regulations?
The move is to higher mileage cars by law. Higher mileage is achieved through better aerodynamics, lower rolling resistance, less driveline drag, more efficient engines/motor configurations and lower weight. AWD increases weight, rolling resistance, and driveline drag, and does nothing to make the other 2 better.
I am not against AWD as an option because I hate 4 driven wheels. I am against it because of the compromises that will be made to the RWD configuration to accomodate the option of having AWD. I am against sub-optimizing the RWD configuration to make the AWD option practical. Those compromises go against what makes an exciting sports car for me. If you want an AWD car, go buy one of the sub-optimized sports cars that have it, or a sedan. Do mess with my future car. Yes, I know that is selfish, but I am at peace with myself on that.
The move is to higher mileage cars by law. Higher mileage is achieved through better aerodynamics, lower rolling resistance, less driveline drag, more efficient engines/motor configurations and lower weight. AWD increases weight, rolling resistance, and driveline drag, and does nothing to make the other 2 better.
I am not against AWD as an option because I hate 4 driven wheels. I am against it because of the compromises that will be made to the RWD configuration to accomodate the option of having AWD. I am against sub-optimizing the RWD configuration to make the AWD option practical. Those compromises go against what makes an exciting sports car for me. If you want an AWD car, go buy one of the sub-optimized sports cars that have it, or a sedan. Do mess with my future car. Yes, I know that is selfish, but I am at peace with myself on that.
A 4 wheel drive vehicle doesnt have to always be in AWD mode. My '97 jeep has selec-trac, where its in 2wd (rwd) until I select 4wd. They can do something like this in the near future. That is one of the reasons I am trying to hold onto my jeep since I dont like the car in AWD mode especially when not needed on dry pavement. Doing some sort of select track button to engage and disengage the AWD will might clear up rolling resistance issues. The downside to all of this is weight, balance and definitely design issues. I do agree with you on the compromises that would have to be made with AWD.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 871
Likes: 3
From: Alpha/Coopersburg NJ/PA
If someone gave a choice between a Veyron and Ferrari 458 for free I would take the 458 instead the Veyron AWD pig, I don't care how quick or fast the Veyron is. It is still does not exceed the 458 as a fun to drive car. Heck I would rather have a Z06, or a V-8 Atom than a Veyron.
If you want AWD, go buy an AWD car. /story
Imagine if Corvette had done that in 1980: "You want a car that doesn't handle like a wallowing, useless, slow-as-hell bathtub, go buy a Porsche!" Bam. C4-C6 never exist, and Corvette becomes completely irrelevant.
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,973
Likes: 152
From: Somewhere in Dallas TX
Perfect. Excellent render combining Centennial and current gen. I love the intakes from the Centennial vette and this looks like a showroom car.
Would definitely buy!
Too bad it won't happen as the core study and bean counters making the decisions are too old and conservative with no ***** for something this extreme.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,244
Likes: 3
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
So your technical argument is "I don't care that the AWD car is faster, but RWD is more funner!" Wow. That'll take the Corvette brand far. Do you enjoy having your $60,000 sports car legitimately rivaled in a quarter mile by a $35,000 four cylinder Japanese sedan? Because I don't. .....
You really are twisting what Racer X posted. 
However, the fun-to-drive formula has taken the Corvette brand quite far since being introduced 58 years ago. 
There may be a Japanese sedan for $35,000 that can beat the C6 in the quarter mile, but I'm not familiar with it. Would you enlighten me on it please? Thanks.
If the possibility of a four cylinder Japanese sedan beating you in the quarter bothers your manliness, I guess you should run out and buy one. You'll save $25,000 in the process.
Oh, and if such a car exists, the 'vette will keep on chugging to 185 or so and beat the snot out of the sedan on a road course. Finally, if you measure a sports car’s worth strictly by ¼ mile performance, you just don’t ‘get’ what a sports car is about.
Racer X added "If you want and AWD car, go buy one!” and you add this statement.
… Because that's how brands improve, by driving away people who want to improve them. Imagine if Corvette had done that in 1980: "You want a car that doesn't handle like a wallowing, useless, slow-as-hell bathtub, go buy a Porsche!" Bam. C4-C6 never exist, and Corvette becomes completely irrelevant.
You and a few others want Corvette to be made into something it never has been. It’s not a AWD car, and many of us say what Racer X stated: If YOU want one, go buy one. They are available. Just leave the Corvette a simple, efficient, low-cost and top performing car that it has been refined to during 58 years.
Last edited by jackhall99; Feb 11, 2012 at 07:05 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15,199
Likes: 1,007
From: BOOMER SOONER
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,041
Likes: 0
From: Cali for ya Republic
It's frankly not rocket science to achieve the official accelerations. Of course you'll often see Sunday's drivers on a Vette, who'll never "get" the stick shift. What can I say: get a lesson on the mechanics involved. Maybe your feet will finally get to dance to the beat.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
But on the flipside, I also like and/or want to mod my car and making alot more power to a stock vette has limits because of traction issues. And to clear up those issues I would have to go with some suspension upgrades to stop the car from squatting during launch and shifting. not to mention widening the tires which may warrant a rear widebody kit which is very costly.
But I see what you're saying there.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
Neither one of those cars is anywhere even near the base model Corvette in acceleration/top speed.
I see some of the point you're trying to make above but the information that you're using to make it is extremely inaccurate.
He might think that there is but again, there isn't.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
A good driver on better/more suitable tires (sort of that 'engineering' part you'd mentioned 
) can do some amazing things with a RWD car. 
It's frankly not rocket science to achieve the official accelerations. Of course you'll often see Sunday's drivers on a Vette, who'll never "get" the stick shift. What can I say: get a lesson on the mechanics involved. Maybe your feet will finally get to dance to the beat.
The guys who are out there extracting these amazing drag strip times out of bone stock and bone stock 'plus drag radials' Corvettes are not specially trained pro race car drivers. They're merely Corvette owners like everyone else who've simply learned what it takes to get down the track quickly without breaking the car, and they practiced at it and improved it each time.Great drivers are made, they're not born that way.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 27,567
Likes: 99
From: San Diego
So your technical argument is "I don't care that the AWD car is faster, but RWD is more funner!" Wow. That'll take the Corvette brand far. Do you enjoy having your $60,000 sports car legitimately rivaled in a quarter mile by a $35,000 four cylinder Japanese sedan? Because I don't.
Because that's how brands improve, by driving away people who want to improve them.
Imagine if Corvette had done that in 1980: "You want a car that doesn't handle like a wallowing, useless, slow-as-hell bathtub, go buy a Porsche!" Bam. C4-C6 never exist, and Corvette becomes completely irrelevant.
Because that's how brands improve, by driving away people who want to improve them.
Imagine if Corvette had done that in 1980: "You want a car that doesn't handle like a wallowing, useless, slow-as-hell bathtub, go buy a Porsche!" Bam. C4-C6 never exist, and Corvette becomes completely irrelevant.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,526
Likes: 12
From: Los Angeles California
