Why is it taking so long?
06-01-2012, 11:24 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
I suspect more frequent refreshes would involve pure carryover engineering. A new skin for 2009 or 2010 would have likely been just that. Might have precluded ZR-1 too, which most of us don't enjoy directly but it certainly boosted the Corvette reputation.
Of course, a simple reskin every other time might improve sales, but I bet we'd have a heavier car (with a poorer resale value).
.Jinx
Of course, a simple reskin every other time might improve sales, but I bet we'd have a heavier car (with a poorer resale value).
.Jinx
06-01-2012, 12:56 PM
#24
Team Owner
I suspect more frequent refreshes would involve pure carryover engineering. A new skin for 2009 or 2010 would have likely been just that. Might have precluded ZR-1 too, which most of us don't enjoy directly but it certainly boosted the Corvette reputation.
Of course, a simple reskin every other time might improve sales, but I bet we'd have a heavier car (with a poorer resale value).
Of course, a simple reskin every other time might improve sales, but I bet we'd have a heavier car (with a poorer resale value).
Very good points.
06-01-2012, 01:15 PM
#26
Team Owner
I suspect more frequent refreshes would involve pure carryover engineering. A new skin for 2009 or 2010 would have likely been just that. Might have precluded ZR-1 too, which most of us don't enjoy directly but it certainly boosted the Corvette reputation.
Of course, a simple reskin every other time might improve sales, but I bet we'd have a heavier car (with a poorer resale value).
.Jinx
Of course, a simple reskin every other time might improve sales, but I bet we'd have a heavier car (with a poorer resale value).
.Jinx
Technology is changing too fast and the Corvette is a halo car for GM. It should never go as stale as it has been. There needs to be a massive overhaul of the vehicle for what has basically been about 17 years worth of the same. After that, they need to update the look and the tech bits a little more often unless they are going for another revolutionary change.
06-01-2012, 01:17 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
The C5 to C6 was not that big of a change compared to the jump between a C4 and a C5. It did not warrant a 8 year run on the C5. Why do think they call the C6 a C5.5. So many parts bolts up between the C5 and C6 that it is almost silly. What can you take from a C4 and put in a C5?
Technology is changing too fast and the Corvette is a halo car for GM. It should never go as stale as it has been. There needs to be a massive overhaul of the vehicle for what has basically been about 17 years worth of the same.
Technology is changing too fast and the Corvette is a halo car for GM. It should never go as stale as it has been. There needs to be a massive overhaul of the vehicle for what has basically been about 17 years worth of the same.
For most businesses, bankruptcy plays havoc with future development plans.
06-01-2012, 01:27 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
"The C5 to C6 was not that big of a change compared to the jump between a C4 and a C5." That's not really fair -- the C4 ran 14 years, and came from the malaise era. What would you want to take from a C4 and put in a C5?
Is there a list of parts that C5 and C6 have in common? Is there anything non-trivial and surprising on that list?
Sometimes you can improve without reinventing. Lots of cars evolve.
.Jinx
Is there a list of parts that C5 and C6 have in common? Is there anything non-trivial and surprising on that list?
Sometimes you can improve without reinventing. Lots of cars evolve.
.Jinx
06-01-2012, 01:29 PM
#29
Team Owner
If the C7 release was delayed a year or two because of that and we ended up with a longer C6 run than anticipated, that is fine. Even if it was two years longer, it is still a 15 year gap of basically the same car.
The C7 needs to be a massive jump forward and they need to shorten the development cycle and get the C8 out their faster.
06-01-2012, 01:34 PM
#30
Team Owner
"The C5 to C6 was not that big of a change compared to the jump between a C4 and a C5." That's not really fair -- the C4 ran 14 years, and came from the malaise era. What would you want to take from a C4 and put in a C5?
Is there a list of parts that C5 and C6 have in common? Is there anything non-trivial and surprising on that list?
Sometimes you can improve without reinventing. Lots of cars evolve.
.Jinx
Is there a list of parts that C5 and C6 have in common? Is there anything non-trivial and surprising on that list?
Sometimes you can improve without reinventing. Lots of cars evolve.
.Jinx
Evolution is not a problem until you have 15+ years of just evolution in a halo car. It needs to be on the cutting edge and you can't do that with long periods of evolution.
Last edited by chaase; 06-01-2012 at 01:37 PM.
06-01-2012, 02:21 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
911?
Also, parts compatibility is not the same as carryover parts. C6Z parts are being put in C5s because they're better, not because they're the same. So clearly C6 was substantially improved, just not reinvented.
Also, parts compatibility is not the same as carryover parts. C6Z parts are being put in C5s because they're better, not because they're the same. So clearly C6 was substantially improved, just not reinvented.
Last edited by Jinx; 06-01-2012 at 02:23 PM. Reason: compatibility vs carryover
06-01-2012, 02:33 PM
#32
Team Owner
The C5 to C6 was not that big of a change compared to the jump between a C4 and a C5. It did not warrant a 8 year run on the C5. Why do think they call the C6 a C5.5. So many parts bolts up between the C5 and C6 that it is almost silly. What can you take from a C4 and put in a C5?
Technology is changing too fast and the Corvette is a halo car for GM. It should never go as stale as it has been. There needs to be a massive overhaul of the vehicle for what has basically been about 17 years worth of the same. After that, they need to update the look and the tech bits a little more often unless they are going for another revolutionary change.
Technology is changing too fast and the Corvette is a halo car for GM. It should never go as stale as it has been. There needs to be a massive overhaul of the vehicle for what has basically been about 17 years worth of the same. After that, they need to update the look and the tech bits a little more often unless they are going for another revolutionary change.
If the C7 release was delayed a year or two because of that and we ended up with a longer C6 run than anticipated, that is fine. Even if it was two years longer, it is still a 15 year gap of basically the same car.
The C7 needs to be a massive jump forward and they need to shorten the development cycle and get the C8 out their faster.
The C7 needs to be a massive jump forward and they need to shorten the development cycle and get the C8 out their faster.
If what chaase is saying is true then the Porsche 911 series should be a total sales, popularity and press/media failure.
But it's not.
Granted, the 911 has received some vast improvement/upgrades (even being almost completely new during some changeovers) underneath that all too familiar exterior skin over the years but the (non technical/non gearhead) public doesn't necessarily know that.
Yet so many are still so quick to give that car line a 'free pass' for not making these supposedly "mandatory" huge changes while Corvette must be all new every few years?
06-01-2012, 02:50 PM
#33
Team Owner
........................................ ..............................Exactly.
If what chaase is saying is true then the Porsche 911 series should be a total sales, popularity and press/media failure.
But it's not.
Granted, the 911 has received some vast improvement/upgrades (even being almost completely new during some changeovers) underneath that all too familiar exterior skin over the years but the (non technical/non gearhead) public doesn't necessarily know that.
Yet so many are still so quick to give that car line a 'free pass' for not making these supposedly "mandatory" huge changes while Corvette must be all new every few years?
If what chaase is saying is true then the Porsche 911 series should be a total sales, popularity and press/media failure.
But it's not.
Granted, the 911 has received some vast improvement/upgrades (even being almost completely new during some changeovers) underneath that all too familiar exterior skin over the years but the (non technical/non gearhead) public doesn't necessarily know that.
Yet so many are still so quick to give that car line a 'free pass' for not making these supposedly "mandatory" huge changes while Corvette must be all new every few years?
Porsche 964 (1989–1993)
Porsche 993 (1993–1998)
Porsche 996 (1999–2005)
Porsche 997 (2005–2011)
Porsche 991 (2011–Present)
Here is the Porsche generations for the past 25 years. They are on their 5th compared to Corvettes being on their 3rd. I am not advocating huge changes every 5-6 years. I am saying evolve them more often going forward. They need big change now because they have barely touched the car in over a decade. C5 to C6 would've been fine if that was after 5-6 years, but it is not fine after 8 years.
Last edited by chaase; 06-01-2012 at 03:40 PM.
06-01-2012, 04:48 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
Corvette makes improvements within generations. That counts for something.
And Corvette's longer "generational" cycle can be viewed as an alternate approach to marketing. Which is a more significant event to the layman, a revised 911 or a new Corvette? It's now part of the mystique that it doesn't happen very often. If the car's improved in the meantime, why isn't that okay?
And don't forget that C5 sales were strong right up to C6's introduction. So was eight years really too long? The market didn't think so.
But hey, everyone can appreciate the frustration of having to wait for a new Corvette, especially if yours is long in the tooth, or you don't like the present fashion.
.Jinx
Last edited by Jinx; 06-01-2012 at 04:52 PM.
06-02-2012, 08:59 AM
#38
Safety Car
I got to thinking. Of course that didn't last long, but here's my thought. The CTX-V styling seems to be a hit with most people and I'd guess the Vette may take on a little of the V's edgy design. That'll be my prediction for the C7. I guess we'll see.
06-02-2012, 11:18 AM
#39
Melting Slicks
The body may be similar but the they have been moving through generations and updating them more often than the corvette.
Porsche 964 (1989–1993)
Porsche 993 (1993–1998)
Porsche 996 (1999–2005)
Porsche 997 (2005–2011)
Porsche 991 (2011–Present)
Here is the Porsche generations for the past 25 years. They are on their 5th compared to Corvettes being on their 3rd. I am not advocating huge changes every 5-6 years. I am saying evolve them more often going forward. They need big change now because they have barely touched the car in over a decade. C5 to C6 would've been fine if that was after 5-6 years, but it is not fine after 8 years.
Porsche 964 (1989–1993)
Porsche 993 (1993–1998)
Porsche 996 (1999–2005)
Porsche 997 (2005–2011)
Porsche 991 (2011–Present)
Here is the Porsche generations for the past 25 years. They are on their 5th compared to Corvettes being on their 3rd. I am not advocating huge changes every 5-6 years. I am saying evolve them more often going forward. They need big change now because they have barely touched the car in over a decade. C5 to C6 would've been fine if that was after 5-6 years, but it is not fine after 8 years.
06-02-2012, 11:46 AM
#40
Melting Slicks
Cheers,
JB
