That is precisely my point! In our previous discussion, you said I was wrong about Nissan and GM using different starting points. Your logic was that they must have used the same starting point based on your claim that all the manufacturers use the same system that is already built into the track. In this discussion, you have finally backpedaled and acknowledged that I was right, and that Nissan and GM are using different systems, and it's obvious the starting points are different.
Casual individual? This remark shows that it is you who does not understand the nature of these cars and the drivers. The Zonda R was a factory effort by Pagani (not a casual individual manufacturer by any means) who hired VLN ace Marc Basseng (not a casual individual by any means) to do the driving. He was the same driver who confirmed Porsche's 7:28 with only a few laps and not great conditions, without segment timing as the entire run is captured on video. That Carrera GT also belonged to the same person who owned the Enzo, MC12, and Zonda F that was likewise videotaped (not segmented). Just your casual individual, right? And since the Zonda R is a non street-legal car running on racing slicks, it is not allowed to run during the tourist sessions, where cars need to comply with German road regulations. It had to be run with the track closed down, paid for by the manufacturer; most "casual individuals" don't have the euros necessary to reimburse the Nordschleife for lost revenue that it would otherwise accrue during that period.
Lexus/Toyota is not a casual individual. Nor is GM, nor Nissan, nor Ferrari, nor Dodge, nor Audi. These are internationally recognized manufacturers. When they all provide a video, with built-in timer matching the figure that they publicly claim the cars can do, that rules out the need entirely of segmented timing. If you have it on video, why would you even need to use segmented timing?
And look at the videos that Dodge had been using to promote the ACR. When the car did the original 7:22 lap, it used the same starting point as Nissan (right at the gap in the wall that is the new pit entrance). Observe how far advanced it is in front of the pit-out wall edge when the timing starts:


Now look how the timing differs when they return with the revised ACR. The Viper is right up to the pit-out wall edge, yet the timing is still 0:00.0. It only starts after the Viper's front edge has cleared that wall edge.


As far as Jim Mero and Jeff Mosher...these guys work for GM. It is part of their job to promote the Corvette brand. And to sometimes chuckle among a like-minded audience when speaking about the competition. Do you take seriously what Ralph Gilles says about Corvette when talking to Viper diehards?

So the answer is no, you do not have any proof that the Nordschleife uses the MyLaps system. Next time you interject into a thread with me, please make sure that you have the facts to back up your assertions.

 

This is getting old. This was discussed years ago. There are no official start and stop lines for the times.

Therefore, GM said they used the exact start and stop lines that Sport Auto does, which are clearly marked on the track. They said Jan used these lines as well in 2006 except he did a standing start.

If Nissan and Dodge use something different, weather they do or not, who cares? It's on them.

 

I think we have to be a little skeptical of reported lap times from all manufacturers. The idea is to take a typical production vehicle without any special preparation (except for safety gear) and see what it does. The temptation to do little tweaks must be tremendous. This reminds me of 60's muscle cars and the "ringers" that the manufacturers would send to the car mags for testing.

The fact that GM put a staff engineer in the pilot's seat for their hot laps is kudos to GM for me: no matter how good a shoe he is, I'm sure that a pro driver would take time off his laps, which makes their accomplishments even more impressive.

As far as a C7's lap times go, I think that power is pretty important on the Nurburgring (there is a REALLY long uphill straight that is Nothing but power and aerodynamics, for instance) and it would be unfair to expect it to go out and outright beat a Z06 or ZR1 laptime. I would expect the GS to be dead meat, though.

 

OMG, LOL! Dude, outside of a few internet posters and a handful of car magazine junkies there are so few people who care about "ring" times that it isn't worth mentioning. "Ring" times do NOT matter to 99.999999% of potential Corvette buyers. Go to a car cruise and BS with the Corvette guys. Trust me, the overwhelming majority of them are great guys but are also near clueless about their chosen vehicles performance capabilities and statistics.

 

First. He wasn't replying to a Ring post but to track time in general. Read again. And second, the GS is pretty much the modern replacement of the Z51 with a wider body. So yes, it would be a huge flop if the new Z51 didn't beat it.

 

I hope the C7 does outrun the C6 Z06 that way current Z06 owners will trade in their C6 Z06 's and maybe the price on the Z06's will go down if I'm lucky and maybe I can afford one one of these days.

I know prices dropping is not very likely but even a $5K drop on the fairly used $40K Z06 would make it easier for me to get one.

Then again if the C7 beats a C6 Z06 and the C7 base price is only $50,000 why would I pay 35 for a used C6 Z06

Like I can afford either, LOL

 

Don't worry. It will be had for a song like all Corvettes eventually are. I find it sad that my near neighbor has treated his Z06 like a garage queen. All that for nothing. No one's gonna make millions with that fine car.

 

A -7:30 in June would be making a statement!

 

It would but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

Lets hope,
I do know one thing, I can't ever imagine seeing a C6 of any kind dipping down into the sub $10k bracket. There is just too much invested in those, will it be the C4 will appreciate due to age and the C6 dip so low because of the new world class technology in a C7 or C8?

If that happened, will a low mile C4 be a good investment at today's prices?

Lots to think about, sorry "a little" off topic, ha

C7 ring times will no doubt forecast the market for older vetted, or am I an idiot, probably both :p:

 

Other than the 427 (and perhaps some ZR1s) which many regard as special enough to be a collectible, I think what you'll see is a collective dip for a while until the intact examples have become rare. And then their value will go up again. I don't know about you, but I think I'll be riding a coffin when this happens.

 

Disclosing weight and horsepower would make a considerably more meaningful statement.

 

That's not entirely relevant. This is about marketing, and hype is contagious. If you give the magazine editors and TV broadcasters some nice numbers to gnaw on, they'll bite, and out-compete each other to give the car more and more hype, until it reaches a wider audience of buyers, and the existing owners can't take any more of the delicious articles and TV spots. Whether it's Ring times, hp numbers, 0-60 times, Vette vs Viper comparos, Top Gear times, numbers are the only tangible things that people can latch on to, like it or not. The rest is just a car.

So hype is key. We need a hero car, like the GTR was, to capture the imagination of the younger generation, and help them get past the geriatric perception of the car.

 

And how did that work out for the Viper ACR? Gumpert? The headlining figures might pique the interest of a very few, but even fewer will make a purchasing decision on the basis of it. The reality is that a closed racetrack is nothing quite like a real road, and while a car like the Gumpert is very fast on track, that doesn't necessarily make for a good road car.

As for the GT-R, it wasn't really just lap times that made it capture the imagination of the younger generation. The Skyline was a fixture in video games long before the current generation, which also benefitted from direct collaborations between Nissan and the creators of Gran Turismo (who not only helped promote the GT-R via track "academy" programs, but also had input on designing the car's multifunction display). The styling is also a blatant two-finger salute to the geriatric crowd. Visually, the C7 looks like it could appeal to both young and older generations. Most any car's style will grab attention far moreso than lap times, and it will have a more lasting effect, especially when you consider the absolute extremes of what it takes for these manufacturers to get these 'Ring times, relative to 99% of the motoring population. When you see a Corvette on the cover of a mag in the supermarket or bookstore, it has an immediate effect if you're into sports cars. The number denoting the 'Ring lap time next to it is nearly meaningless, since the vast majority of benchracers could not ever tell you what a 7:30 lap feels like from a 7:50 lap, having never even driven on the Nordschleife.

 

Waiting

 

Just line up against one Hot Dog!

 

Gotta love that one. The same guys who built the Z06 with Michelins are incapable of building a Michelin-wearing C7 that will be competitive with the Z06 wearing Michelins.

 

The problem is some guys think that the C7 is gonna hang with a C6Z because of the Michelins....they dont realize the 13 Z has Michelins so 505 hp and a lighter weight is going to trump 450-475 hp and a heavier weight....pretty simple huh?

 

Please explain how the Stingray is "turning lap times at VIR competitive with todays C6Z06".

 

As it has been said many times, not the Z06.
Can someone please find the post for Dreamer?