Corvette c7 stingray: Driven
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,315
Likes: 230
From: McDonough, Georgia
Confusing perhaps, but hardly poorly written. He does describe what the car feels like at the limit, and will probably be doing so more in-depth in the follow up.
Not my buddy, and you don't need to qualify your sentence with "maybe he knows how to drive." He definitely knows how to drive and would run circles around you like crazy. You don't get asked by the Porsche factory to compete in the N24, nor do you get to drive an F1 car, nor do you get to drive Ford's works WRC rally car, nor do you get to drive the Nissan Deltawing, nor do you get asked by an F40 and F50 owner to wring out both cars if you only "maybe" know how to drive. You say he's a "hack," but you won't likely find a more accomplished "hack" who's driven more cars than he has.
What he's good at is describing how a car feels, how it behaves, and he's apparently been very good at it to be able to afford his toys (multiple Ferraris, Porsches, BMW M car here and there). People pay him to give drive impressions, on both sides of the Atlantic (edmunds, Evo, Autocar). People ask him to drive their megabuck cars to the limit to give an impression of what he thinks. Just because he doesn't gush with nothing but effusive praise for a car doesn't make him a hack. I suspect nobody has ever asked you to test drive their Ferrari F50 and F40...
Not my buddy, and you don't need to qualify your sentence with "maybe he knows how to drive." He definitely knows how to drive and would run circles around you like crazy. You don't get asked by the Porsche factory to compete in the N24, nor do you get to drive an F1 car, nor do you get to drive Ford's works WRC rally car, nor do you get to drive the Nissan Deltawing, nor do you get asked by an F40 and F50 owner to wring out both cars if you only "maybe" know how to drive. You say he's a "hack," but you won't likely find a more accomplished "hack" who's driven more cars than he has.
What he's good at is describing how a car feels, how it behaves, and he's apparently been very good at it to be able to afford his toys (multiple Ferraris, Porsches, BMW M car here and there). People pay him to give drive impressions, on both sides of the Atlantic (edmunds, Evo, Autocar). People ask him to drive their megabuck cars to the limit to give an impression of what he thinks. Just because he doesn't gush with nothing but effusive praise for a car doesn't make him a hack. I suspect nobody has ever asked you to test drive their Ferrari F50 and F40...
As mentioned before (paraphrasing), every article that isn't completely 100% praise about the new C7 isn't written by a hack or an anti-C7 saboteur.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,883
Likes: 1,254
From: Carmel CA
Chris Harris has always been a Porsche shill. He can't do a test without bringing up the subject of Porsche. I've never understood the infatuation with Porsche by the Brits. Maybe its because Porsche is the only major sports car company that will build the idiotic right hand drive layout for the British and their colonies even though the rest of the world is left hand.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,217
Likes: 153
From: Ft Mill, SC
Chris Harris has always been a Porsche shill. He can't do a test without bringing up the subject of Porsche. I've never understood the infatuation with Porsche by the Brits. Maybe its because Porsche is the only major sports car company that will build the idiotic right hand drive layout for the British and their colonies even though the rest of the world is left hand.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
Likes: 6
Chris Harris has always been a Porsche shill. He can't do a test without bringing up the subject of Porsche. I've never understood the infatuation with Porsche by the Brits. Maybe its because Porsche is the only major sports car company that will build the idiotic right hand drive layout for the British and their colonies even though the rest of the world is left hand.
As to why the Brits like Porsches, maybe it's because Porsche makes a high quality car that fits their needs, that fits their driving style and roads (think about outward vision and % rainy days), and taxation schemes. Crazy of Porsche to deliver a car that people actually want to own and drive, huh? Jaguar, Aston Martin, Lotus, and Nissan also build RHD sports cars and, with the exception perhaps of the GT-R, none of them have bowled over the Brits like the 911 has.
You may deride the driving needs of people who live in countries with "idiotic" layouts, but despite having only .8% of the world's population, the UK accounted for 10% of Porsche's sports car sales last year. In the UK, Japan, Hong Kong, and Australia/NZ alone, Porsche sold 6200 cars. That's already 16% of their sports car business. For reference, the Z06 and ZR1 combined accounted for 7% of Corvette production last year.
Last edited by Guibo; Nov 21, 2013 at 12:21 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
Likes: 6
Ah, one of those. I get it now. We run into that type all the time in different car mag articles. The elitest euro car lover bias, whether it be Porsche, BMW, exotics, etc, tends to more than color their reviews when they assault our beloved sexy supercar from Detroit ( or in their view, Detoilet). The quantum leap forward the C7 has made, thanks to Tadge and crew ( who grew up around Porsche's) will really drive them off the wall. Good. We can spend a lot of time laughing our behinds off at them, when people start pulling into the "club" with those bad smell Corvettes and all heads turn in a good way, just like they are all over the US.
The Ford GT was (ok, more specifically Troy, MI) yet it was met with critical acclaim overseas.
Thirdly, the Nissan GT-R and GT86/BRZ have also been met with critical acclaim (Chris Harris rated it highly too), so your claims of "euro car lover bias" is without merit. Autocar, for instance, have done articles highlighting how the GT86 is just about as fun on track as the F12, and on real-world roads it is more fun for more of the time than their own home-grown MP4-12C. They rated the GT86 their Best Driver's Car, beating out the previous title holder, the Cayman R. Japan over Germany.
"Assault?" How did this writer "assault" your beloved supercar?
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,308
Likes: 123
From: Raleigh North Carolina
Confusing perhaps, but hardly poorly written. He does describe what the car feels like at the limit, and will probably be doing so more in-depth in the follow up.
Not my buddy, and you don't need to qualify your sentence with "maybe he knows how to drive." He definitely knows how to drive and would run circles around you like crazy. You don't get asked by the Porsche factory to compete in the N24, nor do you get to drive an F1 car, nor do you get to drive Ford's works WRC rally car, nor do you get to drive the Nissan Deltawing, nor do you get asked by an F40 and F50 owner to wring out both cars if you only "maybe" know how to drive. You say he's a "hack," but you won't likely find a more accomplished "hack" who's driven more cars than he has.
What he's good at is describing how a car feels, how it behaves, and he's apparently been very good at it to be able to afford his toys (multiple Ferraris, Porsches, BMW M car here and there). People pay him to give drive impressions, on both sides of the Atlantic (edmunds, Evo, Autocar). People ask him to drive their megabuck cars to the limit to give an impression of what he thinks. Just because he doesn't gush with nothing but effusive praise for a car doesn't make him a hack. I suspect nobody has ever asked you to test drive their Ferrari F50 and F40...
Not my buddy, and you don't need to qualify your sentence with "maybe he knows how to drive." He definitely knows how to drive and would run circles around you like crazy. You don't get asked by the Porsche factory to compete in the N24, nor do you get to drive an F1 car, nor do you get to drive Ford's works WRC rally car, nor do you get to drive the Nissan Deltawing, nor do you get asked by an F40 and F50 owner to wring out both cars if you only "maybe" know how to drive. You say he's a "hack," but you won't likely find a more accomplished "hack" who's driven more cars than he has.
What he's good at is describing how a car feels, how it behaves, and he's apparently been very good at it to be able to afford his toys (multiple Ferraris, Porsches, BMW M car here and there). People pay him to give drive impressions, on both sides of the Atlantic (edmunds, Evo, Autocar). People ask him to drive their megabuck cars to the limit to give an impression of what he thinks. Just because he doesn't gush with nothing but effusive praise for a car doesn't make him a hack. I suspect nobody has ever asked you to test drive their Ferrari F50 and F40...
with the above statements. I heard Chris discussing his C7 impressions a couple of weeks ago via The Smoking Tire (TST) audio podcast, and the short of it is GM would've come out better sending a Z51, MRC, 7-Speed. I agree that he is a little biased towards Porsche but I think that's okay because everyone should have a preference. I think the best news to come out of this is:
1. This is the Base Vette and its stacking up superbly.
2. For the most part, no one is writing it off as just another "cheap" but fast Chevy.
3. Better Press + More potential buyers + More money for GM = Better budgets for Hi-Po C7 versions
Last edited by truth.b; Nov 21, 2013 at 12:17 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
Likes: 6
"Just a writer"...with probably more actual hands-on experience with more cars and racing experience than probably 99% of active members within this forum (and probably more than 99% of auto journalists as well).
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
Likes: 6
All of this can only be good for GM. The increased exposure overseas has a cyclical effect. Corvettes on the ground are a rolling advertisement for what GM can do and if they are displacing foreign (to us) marques in people's garages, then that's something those manufacturers will need to consider once they start losing marketshare.Outstanding video at Goodwood BTW.
Originally Posted by Chris Harris
Wet.Dry. Wet again. With some dry bits. But also some wet. I'd done 6 laps of the circuit before the race. The car is worth £2m and this was easily the biggest driving challenge of my life. VMax on the straight is around 180mph.
Last edited by Guibo; Nov 21, 2013 at 12:59 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,883
Likes: 1,254
From: Carmel CA
Factually incorrect. Please stop exaggerating, if not outright lying.
As to why the Brits like Porsches, maybe it's because Porsche makes a high quality car that fits their needs, that fits their driving style and roads (think about outward vision and % rainy days), and taxation schemes. Crazy of Porsche to deliver a car that people actually want to own and drive, huh? Jaguar, Aston Martin, Lotus, and Nissan also build RHD sports cars and, with the exception perhaps of the GT-R, none of them have bowled over the Brits like the 911 has.
You may deride the driving needs of people who live in countries with "idiotic" layouts, but despite having only .8% of the world's population, the UK accounted for 10% of Porsche's sports car sales last year. In the UK, Japan, Hong Kong, and Australia/NZ alone, Porsche sold 6200 cars. That's already 16% of their sports car business. For reference, the Z06 and ZR1 combined accounted for 7% of Corvette production last year.
As to why the Brits like Porsches, maybe it's because Porsche makes a high quality car that fits their needs, that fits their driving style and roads (think about outward vision and % rainy days), and taxation schemes. Crazy of Porsche to deliver a car that people actually want to own and drive, huh? Jaguar, Aston Martin, Lotus, and Nissan also build RHD sports cars and, with the exception perhaps of the GT-R, none of them have bowled over the Brits like the 911 has.
You may deride the driving needs of people who live in countries with "idiotic" layouts, but despite having only .8% of the world's population, the UK accounted for 10% of Porsche's sports car sales last year. In the UK, Japan, Hong Kong, and Australia/NZ alone, Porsche sold 6200 cars. That's already 16% of their sports car business. For reference, the Z06 and ZR1 combined accounted for 7% of Corvette production last year.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,883
Likes: 1,254
From: Carmel CA
Guibo, here is another validation of Chris(Monkey) Harris and his Porsche bantering. Even some of the Brits got sick and tired when he would bloviate on and on about Porsche.
http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/sh...d.php?t=132161
http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/sh...d.php?t=132161
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
Likes: 6
After Harris was famously dumped by EVO magazine because of his personnel crusade against Ferrari he's tempered his Porsche rhetoric. Ferrari banned Harris and therefore EVO from ever testing another Ferrari. Evo had no choice but to dump him. They would never get a Ferrari test in their magazine with Harris there. Harris has always been a huge Porsche fan. He just didn't know when to shut up about it. It was sickening to listen to him blather on about his beetle cars. You are delusional if you can't see that, Guibo.
You are delusional if you think that it's only Chris Harris who has noted the shortcomings of Corvettes in the UK/Euro market. I'll post here the very words of a ZR1 owner from that Corvette magazine:
"I’ve had Ferraris, Bentleys, TVRs, Mercedes, Audis and Porsches. I’ve also had a number of Corvettes, including a C5 convertible, a C6 and a Z06, and have loved them all.
You have to be very careful and give it [ZR1] a lot of respect, unlike my Audi R8 V10, which was rock steady. On motorways and smooth A-roads, the ZR1 is wonderful, but you can’t take liberties down a narrow, bumpy road. You have to concentrate 100 percent because the steering wheel is constantly moving around.
The ZR1 has a better ride than the Z06 but still jars badly on our poor road surfaces, and that’s on the softer Tour setting. The hard Sport setting is so ridiculously hard you can’t use it on our roads. You can in France, where the roads are like glass.
It only averages 14 mpg and less than 10 mpg when you boot it. With petrol at over £6 a gallon, that’s not funny. But the biggest criticism is the interior, which is dreadful. It’s cheap, with poor-quality plastics and the switch gear is like 1970s Datsun, but it does the job. The seats are not supportive enough and nowhere near as comfortable as the old C5’s, and the seat backs are really flimsy*. Having said all that, I still love it."
*This was published in December of 2012, long before C&D's autopsy comparison of C7 vs C6 seats, which showed that critics of the C6's seats weren't full of **** after all.
Oh wow, one random poster on the interweb weighs in on why he thinks Harris was let go (with no evidence that that was actually the case), and you're treating it as gospel? That has no bearing on the numerous COTY awards bestowed onto Porsche when Harris wasn't there, nor the same for Autocar when he wasn't there either. If there's any bias, it's for a type of car that is generally delivered by Porsche. And unlike other mags who do the talk but don't walk the walk, he's paid for the price of enjoying Ferraris and Porsches with his own money. If that's not a ringing endorsement to the underlying quality of a car and an example of putting your money where your mouth is, I don't know what is.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,883
Likes: 1,254
From: Carmel CA
Factually incorrect. Evo was given an FF for their eCOTY test. Harris was not allowed to drive. Are you seriously saying he should have shut up about Ferrari's obsessive media micromanagement??
You are delusional if you think that it's only Chris Harris who has noted the shortcomings of Corvettes in the UK/Euro market. I'll post here the very words of a ZR1 owner from that Corvette magazine:
"I’ve had Ferraris, Bentleys, TVRs, Mercedes, Audis and Porsches. I’ve also had a number of Corvettes, including a C5 convertible, a C6 and a Z06, and have loved them all.
You have to be very careful and give it [ZR1] a lot of respect, unlike my Audi R8 V10, which was rock steady. On motorways and smooth A-roads, the ZR1 is wonderful, but you can’t take liberties down a narrow, bumpy road. You have to concentrate 100 percent because the steering wheel is constantly moving around.
The ZR1 has a better ride than the Z06 but still jars badly on our poor road surfaces, and that’s on the softer Tour setting. The hard Sport setting is so ridiculously hard you can’t use it on our roads. You can in France, where the roads are like glass.
It only averages 14 mpg and less than 10 mpg when you boot it. With petrol at over £6 a gallon, that’s not funny. But the biggest criticism is the interior, which is dreadful. It’s cheap, with poor-quality plastics and the switch gear is like 1970s Datsun, but it does the job. The seats are not supportive enough and nowhere near as comfortable as the old C5’s, and the seat backs are really flimsy*."
*This was published in December of 2012, long before C&D's autopsy comparison of C7 vs C6 seats, which showed that critics of the C6's seats weren't full of **** after all.
Oh wow, one random poster on the interweb weighs in on why he thinks Harris was let go (with no evidence that that was actually the case), and you're treating it as gospel? That has no bearing on the numerous COTY awards bestowed onto Porsche when Harris wasn't there, nor the same for Autocar when he wasn't there either. If there's any bias, it's for a type of car that is generally delivered by Porsche. And unlike other mags who do the talk but don't walk the walk, he's paid for the price of enjoying Ferraris and Porsches with his own money. If that's not a ringing endorsement to the underlying quality of a car and an example of putting your money where your mouth is, I don't know what is.
You are delusional if you think that it's only Chris Harris who has noted the shortcomings of Corvettes in the UK/Euro market. I'll post here the very words of a ZR1 owner from that Corvette magazine:
"I’ve had Ferraris, Bentleys, TVRs, Mercedes, Audis and Porsches. I’ve also had a number of Corvettes, including a C5 convertible, a C6 and a Z06, and have loved them all.
You have to be very careful and give it [ZR1] a lot of respect, unlike my Audi R8 V10, which was rock steady. On motorways and smooth A-roads, the ZR1 is wonderful, but you can’t take liberties down a narrow, bumpy road. You have to concentrate 100 percent because the steering wheel is constantly moving around.
The ZR1 has a better ride than the Z06 but still jars badly on our poor road surfaces, and that’s on the softer Tour setting. The hard Sport setting is so ridiculously hard you can’t use it on our roads. You can in France, where the roads are like glass.
It only averages 14 mpg and less than 10 mpg when you boot it. With petrol at over £6 a gallon, that’s not funny. But the biggest criticism is the interior, which is dreadful. It’s cheap, with poor-quality plastics and the switch gear is like 1970s Datsun, but it does the job. The seats are not supportive enough and nowhere near as comfortable as the old C5’s, and the seat backs are really flimsy*."
*This was published in December of 2012, long before C&D's autopsy comparison of C7 vs C6 seats, which showed that critics of the C6's seats weren't full of **** after all.
Oh wow, one random poster on the interweb weighs in on why he thinks Harris was let go (with no evidence that that was actually the case), and you're treating it as gospel? That has no bearing on the numerous COTY awards bestowed onto Porsche when Harris wasn't there, nor the same for Autocar when he wasn't there either. If there's any bias, it's for a type of car that is generally delivered by Porsche. And unlike other mags who do the talk but don't walk the walk, he's paid for the price of enjoying Ferraris and Porsches with his own money. If that's not a ringing endorsement to the underlying quality of a car and an example of putting your money where your mouth is, I don't know what is.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
Likes: 6
Interesting comparison of comments. This test:
Compare to a Motor Trend editor's reply on their forum, after having tested the Z51-equipped car:
http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9567...ors/page3.html
*That was a direct response to a post made here by none other than our very own skank:
So skank tried to convince us that it was the 911 that was tail-happy, that it swapped ends on a hot lap, yet the Motor Trend editor flat out refutes that notion and declared just the opposite: That it was the Corvette that was harder to catch, and that the 911 was not even on a hot lap when that happened. (Delusional?)
Assuming it was indeed a base car that Harris was driving, it's not inconceivable that it could feel this way, when even the more sorted Z51 isn't completely buttoned down.
Originally Posted by Chris Harris
You have to be patient with the C7. Get greedy with entry speed and it will either plough forward or want to rotate quite alarmingly when you back-off the throttle. When you find the sweet spot - and it's quite narrow- the 'vette is fast and rewarding. It'll oversteer on demand, but it can be hard to bring the car back into a straight line smoothly. Traction is okay, nothing more. And whereas the rear axle feels much more sophisticated on the road, this base version with a normal locking diff (the Z51 pack standard in Europe has an active locking unit) can feel a little loose at the rear when you push hard.
Originally Posted by Scott Evans
To his first post*, he saw the 911 spin out when it was being driven for photography and was attempting to get a big drift. When you try to get sideways, you sometimes end up backwards. The Corvette is actually MUCH harder to drift than the 911 and spun out many, many more times trying to get a drift picture, with all different drivers at the wheel. I don't recall exactly who was driving the 911 when it spun, but it was one of our editors, not Randy. I myself drifted the 911 a number of times for camera at a different photo shoot and never spun it. When hot-lapping the 911, I never had it come anywhere close to spinning on me. The most I could get it to do, when I was really trying, was to do a nice little drift exiting the hairpin, turn 2. The Corvette was far more tail happy.
*That was a direct response to a post made here by none other than our very own skank:
Assuming it was indeed a base car that Harris was driving, it's not inconceivable that it could feel this way, when even the more sorted Z51 isn't completely buttoned down.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,217
Likes: 153
From: Ft Mill, SC
My my, one of us has a huge need to be right. There's always one in every crowd. Reminds me of a trip to the gym I took years back and as I was leaving, I ran into a guy with a Porsche 911. I asked him how he liked the 911 as I was about to get in my vette. In a disdainful manner, he educated me that it was a 996 NOT a 911. At the time I was just about to buy a new 2003 996TT ( which I did), so I was very familiar that the current version 911( a generic term that most knowledgeable enthusiasts use when referring to all versions & years) was a 996. This a-----e took it upon himself to straighten me out. Another guy with a huge need to be right, so I'm happy to let him, & just thought what a J-----f. Not all Porsche guys are like that, so this isn't a slam against Porsche guys. That was their one in every crowd.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,883
Likes: 1,254
From: Carmel CA
You get on this thread trying to extole the virtues of Chris Harris ( a well documented Porsche shill) and you call me misleading. When are you ever going to call a spade a spade. All you ever do is twist and contort the facts. Just admit that Harris is a shill and we can get on with it.