C7 General Discussion General C7 Corvette Discussion not covered in Tech
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Top tier gas ???

 
Old 10-20-2015, 04:57 PM
  #1  
Dads dream
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Dads dream's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2015
Location: Andalusia Pa
Posts: 180
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
Default Top tier gas ???

Told by dealer service dept today to use top tier premium gas only. Using premium Liberty gas in my 2015 C7 base model and Liberty gas is not top tier. After reading top tier gas suppliers on line I noticed some of them have a percentage of ethanol in their blend. Thought ethanol was problematic for some high performance engines. I live north of Philadelphia and looking for comments/advise from forum members.....thanks in advance. ....
Dads dream is offline  
Old 10-20-2015, 05:05 PM
  #2  
Zymurgy
Moderator
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Zymurgy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: DFW Area TX
Posts: 19,945
Thanked 2,101 Times in 1,074 Posts
Default

Depending on where you live, you may not be able to get ethanol free gas. For example, in the DFW area, you cannot get ethanol free gas due to EPA regulations. While I personally believe ethanol is a complete boondoggle, I run top tier 93 octane with 10% ethanol. Have used it in my Corvettes for years without issues.

If I had the choice, I would run 93 octane ethanol free top tier gas. Second choice would be 93 octane 10% ethanol top tier. 93 octane ethanol free not top tier would be dead last.

Corvettes seem to have an issue with sulfur fouling the fuel gauge sender. Using top tier gas seems to prevent this issue.

Last edited by Zymurgy; 10-20-2015 at 05:08 PM.
Zymurgy is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Zymurgy For This Useful Post:
Chemdawg99 (04-26-2016)
Old 10-20-2015, 05:10 PM
  #3  
DickieDoo
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Aug 2015
Location: Maple Ontario
Posts: 1,422
Thanked 169 Times in 150 Posts
Default

Shell Nitro Premium is the only one i'll be putting in.
There was some discussion on adding a tiny amount of synthetic 2-stroke oil to the gas to make it less "dry" . Probably a good idea for storage...

You've got a premium car that gets phenominal gas mileage... so why cheap out. I believe that Costco is shell....
DickieDoo is offline  
Old 10-20-2015, 08:25 PM
  #4  
ratman6161
CF Senior Member
 
ratman6161's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2015
Location: Buffalo Minnesota
Posts: 662
Thanked 63 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Zymurgy View Post
Depending on where you live, you may not be able to get ethanol free gas. For example, in the DFW area, you cannot get ethanol free gas due to EPA regulations. While I personally believe ethanol is a complete boondoggle, I run top tier 93 octane with 10% ethanol. Have used it in my Corvettes for years without issues.

If I had the choice, I would run 93 octane ethanol free top tier gas. Second choice would be 93 octane 10% ethanol top tier. 93 octane ethanol free not top tier would be dead last.

Corvettes seem to have an issue with sulfur fouling the fuel gauge sender. Using top tier gas seems to prevent this issue.
Like here in MN. Its illegal to put ethanol free gas in your car unless it qualifies as a collector vehical i.e. at least 20 years old.
ratman6161 is offline  
Old 10-20-2015, 09:49 PM
  #5  
rmorin1249
CF Senior Member
 
rmorin1249's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: Hagerstown MD
Posts: 5,811
Thanked 1,234 Times in 873 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15-'16,'18
Default

Same here in MD. Almost impossible to find ethanol free gasoline. Here is a link to which brands are Top Tier. I was a bit surprised:

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers/
rmorin1249 is offline  
Old 10-20-2015, 11:32 PM
  #6  
runner61627
CF Senior Member
 
runner61627's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 741
Thanked 167 Times in 116 Posts
Default

I live in Bucks County, PA and have used Exxon (listed as a top tier) exclusively in my 2015 vette. I haven't seen any ethanol free top tier gas in this area.

Edited on 26 April 2016 - I now run Shell V-Power as my first choice and Exxon as second choice.

Last edited by runner61627; 04-26-2016 at 09:08 PM.
runner61627 is offline  
Old 10-21-2015, 03:46 AM
  #7  
HDLARRY
CF Senior Member
 
HDLARRY's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2010
Location: Puyallup WA
Posts: 237
Thanked 25 Times in 21 Posts
Default

According to my owners manual (C7) we should be running 91 octane or better that meets ASTM specification D4814, which basically means 10% Ethanol or less. Anything greater than 10% Ethanol can damage parts and degrade performance.

If your looking for places to find Ethanol-Free fuel, you might try searching for the Pure-Fuel.org which is a group that tries to keep track of the suppliers.

Last edited by HDLARRY; 10-21-2015 at 03:59 AM. Reason: typo
HDLARRY is offline  
Old 10-21-2015, 07:57 AM
  #8  
LDB
CF Senior Member
 
LDB's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Houston Tx
Posts: 1,517
Thanked 600 Times in 273 Posts
Default

There are two classes of issues regarding ethanol: political and performance. By political, I mean cost to manufacture and benefit to the environment. I oppose ethanol basis these political issues. It costs way more and benefits the environment way less than its supporters claim. Unfortunately, it’s one of the vanishingly few places our politicians cooperate. Republicans support it because farm states are strongly Republican and because the corn lobby gives them a lot of money, and Democrats support it because they think it’s more benefit to the environment than it really is. But that said, performance issues are not overly serious.

Many rant and rave about ethanol horror stories, but only two issues occur often enough to worry about, and neither is very serious. Mileage is about 3-5% lower, which is 1 or 2 MPG. Claims of huge mileage differences are silly. Second, water separation for those who store their cars over the winter is a slightly bigger problem. You are not more likely to encounter the problem with ethanol, but if it does occur, it will be worse because there will be more water. However, you can eliminate the risk to cold weather storage by using stabilizer. No other issues impact cars made after 1990. Yes, ethanol can corrode fuel system components of very old cars, custom cars or boats with fiberglass gas tanks, or older models of various things such as chain saws and mowers. But that’s not a problem for cars since 1990.

Bottom line: as suggested by Zymurgy, the intelligent order of choice for gas is as follows. Best is top tier without ethanol, but the “without ethanol” is because of the political issues -- there is nothing of consequence to be afraid of in performance. Next best and totally acceptable from a performance standpoint with modern cars is top tier with ethanol. Accepting non-top-tier in order to get ethanol-free is an unwise move from a performance standpoint. You will have a dirtier engine than a person running top tier with ethanol.
LDB is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to LDB For This Useful Post:
C7Kevin (04-27-2016), Chemdawg99 (04-26-2016), Jmcdude (04-28-2016)
Old 10-21-2015, 09:00 AM
  #9  
Tulsaeasyrider
CF Senior Member
 
Tulsaeasyrider's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: Tulsa OK
Posts: 456
Thanked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Default

Thanks, your info confirms my belief that Quick trip supplies top tier gasoline.
Tulsaeasyrider is offline  
Old 10-21-2015, 10:23 AM
  #10  
ratman6161
CF Senior Member
 
ratman6161's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2015
Location: Buffalo Minnesota
Posts: 662
Thanked 63 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LDB View Post
T...It costs way more and benefits the environment way less than its supporters claim. Unfortunately, itís one of the vanishingly few places our politicians cooperate...
Its the same here in MN. Politicians from both parties love ethanol because it helps them buy the farm vote.

On the other hand, the university of MN came out with a study a few years back that concluded that based on the energy used to produce ethanol, the pollution it caused and the cost of subsidies on one side compared to the benefits of ethanol on the other side: The total cost to society of ethanol in gas is a wash. I.e. over all there is no benefit when you consider all the factors. So all we are doing is moving the money around
ratman6161 is offline  
Old 10-21-2015, 10:30 AM
  #11  
NateDieselF4i
CF Senior Member
 
NateDieselF4i's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2015
Location: Arlington Va
Posts: 131
Thanked 16 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Shell 93 only master race crew.

Shame about the ethanol but I still stick to Shell v-power only.

NateDieselF4i is offline  
Old 10-21-2015, 10:49 AM
  #12  
JoesC5
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 1999
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 39,929
Thanked 1,322 Times in 960 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ratman6161 View Post
Like here in MN. Its illegal to put ethanol free gas in your car unless it qualifies as a collector vehical i.e. at least 20 years old.
Do you have a link to that law that says only cars over 20 years old can purchase ethanol free gasoline?

I ask because there are 513 gas stations in MN that sell ethanol free gasoline(mainly 91 octane). Are there that many cars on the road in MN that are over 20 years old?

MN is one of states with the highest concentrations of stations selling ethanol free gasoline of all the 50 states. Fact is that only six states have higher concentrations of stations selling ethanol free gasoline; WI with 810, FL with 621, NC with 591, OK with 587, NY with 586, and TN with 537.

That leaves 43 states with lower number of stations selling ethanol free gasoline.

Last edited by JoesC5; 10-21-2015 at 12:04 PM.
JoesC5 is online now  
Old 10-21-2015, 10:58 AM
  #13  
JoesC5
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 1999
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 39,929
Thanked 1,322 Times in 960 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LDB View Post
There are two classes of issues regarding ethanol: political and performance. By political, I mean cost to manufacture and benefit to the environment. I oppose ethanol basis these political issues. It costs way more and benefits the environment way less than its supporters claim. Unfortunately, itís one of the vanishingly few places our politicians cooperate. Republicans support it because farm states are strongly Republican and because the corn lobby gives them a lot of money, and Democrats support it because they think itís more benefit to the environment than it really is. But that said, performance issues are not overly serious.

Many rant and rave about ethanol horror stories, but only two issues occur often enough to worry about, and neither is very serious. Mileage is about 3-5% lower, which is 1 or 2 MPG. Claims of huge mileage differences are silly. Second, water separation for those who store their cars over the winter is a slightly bigger problem. You are not more likely to encounter the problem with ethanol, but if it does occur, it will be worse because there will be more water. However, you can eliminate the risk to cold weather storage by using stabilizer. No other issues impact cars made after 1990. Yes, ethanol can corrode fuel system components of very old cars, custom cars or boats with fiberglass gas tanks, or older models of various things such as chain saws and mowers. But thatís not a problem for cars since 1990.

Bottom line: as suggested by Zymurgy, the intelligent order of choice for gas is as follows. Best is top tier without ethanol, but the ďwithout ethanolĒ is because of the political issues -- there is nothing of consequence to be afraid of in performance. Next best and totally acceptable from a performance standpoint with modern cars is top tier with ethanol. Accepting non-top-tier in order to get ethanol-free is an unwise move from a performance standpoint. You will have a dirtier engine than a person running top tier with ethanol.
A lot of people that have FlexFuel vehicles only run E10 instead of E85(which they are designed to use) because to the ~27% decrease in gas mileage. They found out that it costs more per mile to run E85, even with the lower pump price of E85. I notice that with my travels I see very few stations selling E85, where quite a few did when FlexFuel vehicles were first released.
JoesC5 is online now  
Old 10-21-2015, 11:01 AM
  #14  
James Bertuca
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: May 2015
Posts: 208
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
Do you have a link to that law that says only cars over 20 years old can purchase ethanol free gasoline?

I ask because there are 513 gas stations in MN that sell ethanol free gasoline(mainly 91 octane). Are there that many cars on the road in MN that are over 20 years old?

MN is one of states with the highest concentrations of stations selling ethanol free gasoline of all the 50 states. Fact is that only six states have higher concentrations of stations selling ethanol free gasoline; WI with 810, FL with 621, NC with 591, OK with 587, NY with 586, and TN with 537.

That leaves 43 states with lower number of stations selling ethanol free gasoline.

My son-in-law works for Marathon oil, I asked him where I can buy top tier gas in the state of Indiana, he told me that's for farmers only if you get caught with it the Federal government can fine you, top tier gas has red dye in it, we have co-ops that sell it. I'll take a look at shell if I can find that station. By fed. law all gas for the consumers must have ethanol in it, I guess that's why they sell dry gas.

Last edited by James Bertuca; 10-21-2015 at 11:05 AM.
James Bertuca is offline  
Old 10-21-2015, 11:07 AM
  #15  
Glen e
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 10,259
Thanked 735 Times in 399 Posts
Tech Contributor
Default

Originally Posted by James Bertuca View Post
My son-in-law works for Marathon oil, I asked him where I can buy top tier gas in the state of Indiana, he told me that's for farmers only if you get caught with it the Federal government can fine you, top tier gas has red dye in it, we have co-ops that sell it. I'll take a look at shell if I can find that station. By fed. law all gas for the consumers must have ethanol in it, I guess that's why they sell dry gas.

Thats not top tier...something else ......top tier does not refer to non eth gas.

Toptiergas.com

Last edited by Glen e; 10-21-2015 at 11:10 AM.
Glen e is offline  
Old 10-21-2015, 11:08 AM
  #16  
JoesC5
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 1999
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 39,929
Thanked 1,322 Times in 960 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by rmorin1249 View Post
Same here in MD. Almost impossible to find ethanol free gasoline. Here is a link to which brands are Top Tier. I was a bit surprised:

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers/
Yep; only 37 stations in the whole state sell ethanol free gasoline.
JoesC5 is online now  
Old 10-21-2015, 11:19 AM
  #17  
JoesC5
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 1999
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 39,929
Thanked 1,322 Times in 960 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by James Bertuca View Post
My son-in-law works for Marathon oil, I asked him where I can buy top tier gas in the state of Indiana, he told me that's for farmers only if you get caught with it the Federal government can fine you, top tier gas has red dye in it, we have co-ops that sell it. I'll take a look at shell if I can find that station. By fed. law all gas for the consumers must have ethanol in it, I guess that's why they sell dry gas.
I don't think the federal government can fine you for using ethanol free gas. They sure can't fine me every time I fill up my 4 cars with ethanol free gas here in Missouri. Federal laws regulating who can, or can not, purchase ethanol free gas would have to pertain to every state, not selected states.

Maybe Indiana has a state law against it but I see where there are 80 stations in Indiana that sell ethanol free gas. Bunch of them are marinas, but some are regular stations/convenience stores.

Just about every state has different laws about selling gasoline with ethanol. Here is Missouri, 87 octane gas has to have 10% ethanol(but there is a loophole for the retailers. They can sell ethanol free 87 octane if the wholesale price of E0 is lower than E10), but premium gas does not have to contain ethanol. Does not matter who purchases it, or what kind of vehicle the premium goes in. In most states, it's up to the retailer to decide if he wants to sell ethanol free gas. In most states, if you want ethanol free gas, you need to talk to your retail gas station's owner, not your state legislator.

Maybe your son-in-law is confusing diesel fuel with ethanol free gasoline, regarding taxes. Most states allow sale of diesel fuel to farmers without having to pay road taxes. If they get caught with having diesel fuel(that they didn't pay road taxes on) in any vehicle that is operated on public roads/highways, than they can get hit with a BIG fine.

I did a 1600 mile road trip in my Z06 back in June and I burned nothing but ethanol free gas for the entire trip. I left Springfield, MO with E0 93 octane, got E0 93 gas in Pine Bluff, AR, E0 93 in Natchez, MS, E0 91 in some town in northern MS, or southern TN, but I don't remember the name of the town, E0 93 in Bowling Green, KY and E0 93 in Poplar Bluff, MO. When I go home in Springfield, MO, I filled up with E0 93.

Every three months, I visit my elderly aunt and uncle in southern Arkansas. 630 mile round trip and I fill up with E0 in either Conway, Harrison, Little Rock or Benton, Arkansas.

Originally Posted by Glen e View Post
Thats not top tier...something else ......top tier does not refer to non eth gas.

Toptiergas.com
Problem is that he is making purchasing decisions based on bad info from his son-in-law, who apparently is clueless. Really is a shame since his son-in-law works for an oil company. Maybe Marathon oil wants people to believe that Top Tier gasoline is against the law to use in non farm vehicles, since Marathon is not a Top Tier retailer?

NO STATE has laws restricting the use of top tier gasoline.

Last edited by Steven Bell; 10-21-2015 at 01:50 PM. Reason: Merged Posts-please use the Multi-Quote button in the lower right hand corner (middle icon).
JoesC5 is online now  
Old 10-21-2015, 12:31 PM
  #18  
LDB
CF Senior Member
 
LDB's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Houston Tx
Posts: 1,517
Thanked 600 Times in 273 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
A lot of people that have FlexFuel vehicles only run E10 instead of E85(which they are designed to use) because to the ~27% decrease in gas mileage. They found out that it costs more per mile to run E85, even with the lower pump price of E85. I notice that with my travels I see very few stations selling E85, where quite a few did when FlexFuel vehicles were first released.
That's about right. If E10 loses 3-5% mileage (and it's really closer to 3%, I'm being generous with the 5%), then E85, which has 8.5 times as much ethanol, should lose in the upper 20's or low 30's percent.
LDB is offline  
Old 10-21-2015, 12:36 PM
  #19  
James Bertuca
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: May 2015
Posts: 208
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Default

What does E-85 have to do with Top tier gas?
James Bertuca is offline  
Old 10-21-2015, 12:43 PM
  #20  
JoesC5
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 1999
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 39,929
Thanked 1,322 Times in 960 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by James Bertuca View Post
What does E-85 have to do with Top tier gas?
Absolutely nothing. But you are the one that is confused by Top tier gasoline and ethanol in gasoline. You mixed the two together in your post #23 as if they are one in the same(which they are not).
JoesC5 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Top tier gas ???


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: