No Synchro?

 

Try it.

 

Hmm, think I said what that long video stated but in just a few sentences in post #19. Unusual to not be the most long winded!

Liked his graphics.

 

Being from Canada you should know, but in fairness being in Ontario is not the same as Calgary. Recall being there when the weatherman said the high for the day will be -40 (note C= F at -40) and even Mobil 1 gets thick at -40! I recall everyone "plugged in" wherever you parked.

Perhaps a shock but no one has block heaters in SC!

 

Jerry you sure did. Some folks just need another medium to move their opinion. Things that were true when we were young may no longer be true today. If people don't understand why what they did in 1970 is no longer valid they keep doing what they did in 1970.

Old ways of doing things are constantly touted as being valid on this forum. Look at threads on oil change intervals, proper waxes, cleaning leather seats, clutchless shifting, engine warm up, gasoline usage and many more.

 

That video was very good. Reminded me that several years ago, when my daughter insisted grandson's computer was in the living room, I asked him to google something for me. He looked puzzled so I asked, "What do you use when you want to find info?" He quickly said YouTube!

When I got home I made a video for my business and posted on my website- now have 30! I'm convinced few read my detailed technical explanations but know many link to and watch the videos!

 

5-10 min and I get into a warm car , it's winter.

 

I do same, as it pains me greatly when car is cold and 1st to 2nd is so "notchy".

 

I’ve certainly been accused of having the long winded gene too, so I know where you are coming from. And I agree with your position. Adding a bit just for the sake of being long winded, if it’s hyper cold, keep it in a garage and/or get an engine block heater. If it’s just plain old cold cold, you’re better off driving calmly to get a faster warm up, than letting it idle for a slow warmup. Once your oil is up to about 60 or 70F, 5W30 is thinner than the high wear zone over 100 centistokes viscosity, so you want oil above 60F as quickly as possible. And the pollution issue isn’t trivial. Idling from cold startup won’t get the cats hot enough to light off in cold weather, and for any given trip, about half to 2/3 of the total pollution that your car emits for the entire trip (depending on trip length) is emitted in the minute or so before the cats are hot enough to light off, with light-off being a somewhat silly term since they don’t literally start burning. It just means getting hot enough to start doing their catalytic function.

 

Due to aluminum expanding and contracting with heat and cold the piston to wall clearance on a cold engine is larger and that alone isn't good. It's harder on cylinder walls and piston skirts. It's my money and my gas. I let it run for a minute or two just to make me feel good.






.

 

I agree with this, and also avoid stressing the drivetrain until the oil temp is up to normal, which is ~190° in my car. That's longer than just waiting for the redline to move around to its normal position, but I'm **** about these things.

Letting the engine idle to warm up prolongs the warm-up process and allows more contamination of water in the crankcase, often called "crankcase dilution," which combines with the sulfur in gas to produce sulfuric acid. Oil can absorb the contaminants to a point, which can be measured in a lab test of the TBN (total base number), but prolonging it just reduces the oil's ability to absorb them over time. I always try to make sure the oil is up to operating temp before parking in the garage.

 

The remote starter is nice to warm the car's inside I wish I had this on my M7 GS but it is only included on the automatic models for obvious reasons.
Many years ago I used to install automotive electronics remote starters were just becoming popular I had a manual at the time so I installed a safety sensor that wouldn't allow the car to start in gear I used it for years. I'm not sure why this isn't done from the factory?

Someone made reference to yellow on the tach when cold I only have about 200 miles on my car I haven't noticed this can someone explain what this is about?

 

There is a yellow band which progressively goes up the RPM band as the engine warms up. Below the yellow is the recommended operating range.

 

I don't see the yellow either. I also have only 200 miles on mine and notice that the redline is at 4500 rpm. There is a yellow that starts at 3500 rpm and stays there and does not change. I am assuming this will change once I reach 500 miles and the break in period ends, the redline will change to 6500 and the yellow will appear/disappear as others have mentioned.

 

After you get 500 miles on the car, the yellow band changes. Before 500, the yellow band is ALWAYS there. After 500, the yellow band is only there when the car is cold. As the car warms up, the yellow band recedes and eventually goes away with the full tach showing "available"

Elmer

 

My thoughts as to why I think 2 to 3 minutes of warm-up idle is less wear on the engine:
1) Cold start fuel enrichment is much better controlled on a fuel injected engine, compared to a crude carburetor using a choke. It is not dumping excessive fuel into the cylinders, reducing the concern about washing the oil off the cylinder walls.
2) The cold start enrichment is also typically time limited, not just dependent on the engine temperature rising. It does not last very long.
3) Concerning fuel dilution of the oil, due to cold enrichment, that is not a problem for me as I change my oil every 3000 miles.
4) I think that a slower warm-up also reduces engine wear as it reduces the thermal shock to the pistons, block, heads, and catalyst substrates.
5) I rather have slower piston speeds (rings versus cylinder walls), and fewer strokes (idle RPM versus higher driving RPMs) while the piston and bore clearances change as the engine warms up.

That's just my opinion, as an Engineer.

 

What's the difference between sitting still at idle and driving off only 500-700 rpms more than idle? I say nothing. After all this is a car that can cruise at 70 mph only slightly above idle rpm.

 

I admit that while I'm also an engineer, I have no data to prove my opinion on wear. To my knowledge, there are no controlled studies of wear in cold starts with and without idle warmup. My logic is that wear increases only slightly with light loads of easy driving versus idling, but it increases rapidly as oil viscosity gets too thick. So my logic tells me that I should go after the thing with big effect (ie, faster warm by driving instead of idling) rather than chase the thing with small effect (ie, the slight wear difference at any given oil temp between idle load and gentle driving load).

On the other hand, while my wear opinion is an opinion, not a fact that I can prove, the difference to air pollution is both significant and a proven fact. Per post #49, at least half the pollution of your entire trip is emitted in the minute or so before your cats get hot enough to light off. That’s why we now have manifold cats instead of just the cats under the car, namely, so that at least some of the cat action gets hot faster and thus kicks off faster. So back to the story, if you extend the period before light off to 5 minutes by idling instead of the 1 minute you’d get by driving right away, do the math and you’ll find that the pollution emitted for your trip will be about triple what it would have been if you had driven right away. Incidentally, that’s smog, carcinogen, and carbon monoxide pollution, not CO2 greenhouse gas. Idling for warmup only has a small effect on CO2 emission. And as a final comment, I’m not a tree-hugger trying to shame people on pollution. I’m simply pointing out the facts in case you aren’t aware. What you do with those facts is your business.

 

Somehow, when I see "oil change at 3000 miles", I tend to dismiss further reading. No, I am not an engineer. Just an old wrench spinner that tries to stay current with today's scientific improvements.

Start it, let all the flashy things and blinky lights stop doing stuff, and then drive it to get it warm. You can drive the car safely below the cute yellow tach bars and maintain any needed speed to move with the traffic.

My DIC controls my oil changes or 12 months whichever happens first.

21st century geezer....


AKA Elmer

 

Yes. And I totally agreed with your post.