here is the thread, again bottom line not needed probaly bad if you have one and have engine failure your sol. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...catch-can.html

Original question is here.

Quote:
Maxie2U asked:
Why did the Camaro design team decide to design in an Oil Catch Can on the 2016 Camaro with the LT1 engine? Will the 2017 C7 with LT1 engines also come with an Oil Catch Can, if not why not?
Quote:
Tadge answered:
To answer the second question first: No, the 2017 Corvette LT1 will not have the Camaro V8 PCV air/oil separator (what the questioner calls a "catch can") added to its oil management system. For those not familiar with the abbreviation PCV, it stands for "positive crankcase ventilation"

Even though the Corvette and Camaro share the LT1, they are very different in execution detail. The LT1 in the Corvette sits lower and very close to the ground to enable an industry-leading low profile hood and good sight lines despite a very low seated position. Having the engine close to the ground is great for keeping the vehicle's center of gravity down, but means the oil pan is relatively shallow. Having little depth in the oil pan means it is very challenging to scavenge oil in high G loading conditions. For this reason we add dry sump lubrication to our high performance models. The Camaro's higher engine position allows for a deeper oil pan and a reliable configuration for picking up oil for delivery to all parts of the engine. Thus the Camaro is able to avoid the cost and mass of the dry sump tank and resulting complexity of the lube system.

The Corvette's dry sump tank looks relatively simple on the outside but the internals are really quite complex. The top third of the tank contains a PCV air/oil separation system. On the Corvette, PCV lines route from the valve covers to the air/oil separator on top of our dry sump tank. Oil from PCV air is separated and returned to the lube system through the oil tank. The PCV separation system on Camaro V8 performs a similar function except oil is returned to the engine oil pan from the PCV separator's drain back tube. The Camaro V8 PCV air/oil separator is more complex than a "catch-can" since it not only separates oil from PCV air it provides a drain back path for this oil to be reused by the lube system. "Catch-can" systems that do not have a drain back path for separated oil run the risk of poor oil pressure performance over time as oil is removed from the lube system.

The bottom line is that both cars use optimized engineering solutions for their lube systems based on vehicle architectural considerations.

 

That last statement is key, if you don't dump the oil from the "can" and keep an eye on oil level you can have problems. Since many owner's don't check the oil level as recommended, don't check the tire pressure as recommended and some don't open the engine compartment, his statements are safe for GM!

For those folks I suggest they don't add a catch can!

If you don't understand that prior Vette engines had gasoline with cleaning additives that passed over the intake vales and washed away the PCV "stuff" and now you don't have that benefit as it's injected right in the combustion chamber then you may not care what the back of the valves look like or the flow restrictions that can occur.

Also if you never put your foot fully on the loud peddle and use the 460 hp you may never notice any performance reduction - so why bother.

To Each Their Own! : lol:



This is an old Shell ad. The valve on the left had gasoline passing over it with port injection or a carburetor, even if it had no extra cleaning additives.. With DI there is NO Gas passing over the intake valves to keep them even that clean.

 

Their is no question if a catch can is necessary or not, in my opinion. There are two reasons why GM didn't install one from the factory, 1) EPA 2) End users. If you understand the PVC system and engines in general, you'll add one in a heartbeat. Below is a link to an excellent thread on the subject. Just remember its subjective to some but others its down right obvious. Also only a select few catch cans work, keep that in mind when purchasing.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rged-base.html

 

The question shouldn't be how to install it, it should be "do I need to install it" .

 

 

You read the explanation from Tadge...


The dry sump system has a built in air/oil separator. Only the non dry sump systems could have an argument for the catch can....or better yet, why didn't GM include the Camaro air/oil separator in the Corvette....or offer it as a dealer add-on.

 

Yes you need to install one.
No need for the Camaro system because it doesn't work.
The answer from GM is bogus for a variety of reasons.
GM says the Camaro doesn't need a dry sump but the Corvette does. Where does that leave the non-Z51. LOL. Bogus. A Camaro could also benefit from the dry sump. The Camaro5 Z28 is dry sump after all.

 

I have read a number of his Tadge's comments re DI and issues with "Coking" (as well as about other high performance DI engines, in earnest from March 2013 when I sold my C6 Z51 and ordered my C7-yep well before the prices were announced!) He is very careful and I don't blame him for what he has to say but, re these specific ones:

1) All dry sump tanks have air oil separators that is their function in addition to storing oil. To get all the oil out of the pan you have to suck in a lot of air. The oil and air are mixed. You have to separate the air from the oil to deliver none areated oil back to lubricate the engine. That is why the air must be burped and there is a hose going to the air intake after the air filter as it contains some oil vapor etc. This is also why "oil foam" and dealers overfilling a dry sump cause oil to drip from the air cleaner etc

2) If the dry sump helps or is the salvation for "coking" what about half the Vettes that don't have one?

3) My PVC hose goes from the crackcase to the intake manifold. It has nothing to do with my dry sump tank. That is where I (and others) place their "catch can" beit wet or dry sump. That is the oil we are collecting and discarding, while we carefully check our oil level.

To each their own. If you wish to believe, like Joe Pesci said in "My Cousin Vinny," that the laws of physics are different for GM than you are free to do that! I like the idea that the oil I collect and discard (properly at a recycle center with the oil from my scheduled changes) does not go over my very hot intake valves and bake into hard flow restricting "stuff." Your choice.

 

Right, GM's Camaro system doesn't intercept oil going to the intake. So Camaro owners still install catch cans. The Camaro5 1LE came with GM's separator in the trunk that could be installed for track use. For the Camaro6 GM designed a permanent system. The Camaro system is not needed on the Corvette dry sump, but interception of oil to the intake is needed.

 

I understand the logic, I just also suspect from reading what happened with others that should there be a catastrophic engine failure, for any reason, GM will void the warranty due to a catch can. So it could be 6 to 1, half a dozen to the other, either your saving the engine from oil vapor and could get shafted due to a true GM defect or you let the valves get mucked up and perhaps it leads to a warranty repair which won't be denied.

I'd like the best of both worlds but so long as GM frowns upon the catch can, it won't happen.

Does any manufacturer install a catch can, like those people install aftermarket, at the factory?

 

Understand your position. Perhaps because I have: 1) gotten a clutch pressure plate on warranty by showing the crack was a defect and the clutch disk, flywheel were perfect; 2) a free differential for my 260Z with a report showing a ring gear bolt came loose and the gears were perfect and 3) recently an air conditioner condenser reimbursed on my C6 that GM would not warranty because it could have been caused by a rock. That required a report and pics showing the hole came from the inside and was caused by a defect before it was installed.

The dealer was very helpful it getting his district GM rep to approve the full $800 refund. If I have an issue I'll be happy to defend although proving I dump the can, don't let the oil go below min is not easy!

Doubt any manufacturer could get EPA approval for a component that must be emptied frequently, requires checking oil levels etc.

Then what would folks do with the collected 2 to 3 oz of oil, put in down the drain, dump on the ground? I put mine in my 12 quart container I use when I change oil. I bring that to a recycle center when it's time for an oil change. Would everyone do that?

The only DI engine I am aware of that has tackled the problem is one by Toyota that adds port injection. The port injection operates periodically and cleans off the PCV "stuff" as it has in the past. A poster indicated port injection is actually better at idle. Not sure how it operates.

 

That probably isn't true as the EPA has approved the urea systems in diesels that require periodic replenishment.

 

Perhaps adding, like oil but to be required to remove oil and "stuff" and then dispose of it properly- not sure.

 

Adding urea is like adding fuel, but less often. A level sensor tells you its time to fill the tank.

 

Wow, the catch can conversation is as toxic here as on the Camaro sites. I have a 13 1LE. It came with the "clean side" factory seperator. I also added the Elite can, HOWEVER, on the LS3, it's not necessary because of the design of the LS3. On my new z51 DI LT1, I'm going to install one this spring. As mentioned, it's easy on, easy off. Take it off before you go into the dealer for a serious issue. Better yet, some of us have good friends at our local dealerships who are willing to help

 

whatever happened to staying on topic?

I hope you you modification hater guys doing all this on the header and cai threads also.

here is my install sheet, work in progress

c7 'mild'
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...CBk7f_7a3iYkZE
c7 'wild'
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...JlIEP9pzIB3YH4