I have a new GS on the way, and I was wondering is there any hidden HP in the LT1 Engine that I can exploit. I don't want to add any super chargers, cams, turbos etc., and I was wondering if any of the various Tuners/Programmers work, or is it just hype. I would appreciate any information the forum members might have on the subject

 

I believe that over the last couple years, I've seen either posts on here or youtube videos of a simple tune with no additional mods that yielded roughly another 20 or so HP. For me, adding the 20 HP and potentially losing your warranty isn't worth the extra 20 since the LT1 is pretty stout right out of the box. If you're going to tune it, might as well add some other goodies like cam, headers, cold air intake to make the risk worth it.


For the record, once my car is out of warranty or close to it, I will tune mine. I have HP Tuners Pro still from my old Pontiac G8 GT tuning days so it will do the trick for me. With that said, I'm happy with the stock LT1 power, but even with the NPP exhaust, it was a little too quiet for me. So I wanted to add headers, but didn't want to tune it, even if it was tuning out the CEL. My fix for that was Kook 1 7/8 LTs + Kooks green cats + Kooks midpipe running through the stock NPP exhaust. The green cats are supposed to be more efficient and not throw a CEL (no tuning required to turn off the CEL). So far, after 500 miles prior to putting her up for the winter, no CEL. Even without a tune, the headers/high flow cats are supposed to add a little HP, but I don't really feel it and didn't do a before and after dyno to try measuring it. I was mainly wanting more exhaust note from the car and I am now happy with the way it sounds. Just some food for thought...

 

diablosport I2 with or without a custom tune from lew, so you can revert back to stock if you need to go back to dealer.

 

Reverting back to stock does nothing for you when it comes to warranty coverage on an engine failure. The fingerprints of the tune are always left behind, and GM will find them if they want to, and they are very motivated to do so in the case of an engine failure.

Tuners are usually vague or evasive on this subject, but when queried they always say "you can always flash back to stock," while leaving out the more pertinent risk.

I lost the LS7 engine (valve drop) on a 06 C6 Z06. It was never tuned, even though many were tuning them. The ECM was sent back to GM and carefully examined for evidence of a past tune. It found to be unmolested and new engine was shipped to the dealer and replaced at no charge.

It's also important to remember that even though your B2B is 36/36, your powertrain warranty is 60/60.

I'm not anti-tune, and do it if you will, but just be prepared to accept the consequences of the choice you made, and don't expect GM to cover it. They won't.

 

diablosport boasts about not being able to be detected after flash. Many say it's true, many say they're full of bs. Neither side has proof of true or not....

 

It is BS. To say that no one has proof is also BS. Some tuners think they've found ways to hide it, but ECM specialists just laugh at this. They also hold their methods close to the vest.

 

see what i mean? From what proof?

 

From many sources, whose confidence I will not violate or publish on an internet forum. Believe me or not, I really don't care, but I feel compelled to deliver the warning every time someone puts uninformed info out there.

 

OP, do what you wish, i am not providing proof it is undetectable, just stating what the manufacturer of the devise states in writing. Believe them, or believe foosh who heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who's moms sister says it's false. I'm out...

 

I don't pass on hear-say from uninformed sources.

What the hell do you think a tune peddler and developer is going to say? I find it comical that people think these guys could possibly be light years ahead of an army of programmers and ECM engineers.

 

I would think/hope a developer wouldn't make themselves liable if it's not true, but like i said, i've never proven it myself... And supposedly, DS has some of those ECM engineers on their payroll....

 

They don't make themselves liable. Read the fine print that comes with the tune, if there is any. Do they offer to replace your engine if the warranty is declined?

Some may have some former OEM engineers periodically employed as consultants, but the OEMs are almost always one step ahead. The ECM manufacturers such as Bosch and Denso and the OEMs can afford to pay top ECM engineers better than tuners.

Suffice it to say there is a record of every OEM ECM load, which are recorded in the GM maintenance records system. If there are records of non-OEM flashes present, you have a problem. If the ECM is wiped cleaned of previously recorded OEM flashes with a later reflash to stock present, you have a problem.

And then there's the issue of your engine having grenaded with a tune. How are you going to flash a blown engine back to stock with no fingerprints and no history of running since it was reflashed?

Ask a tuner a simple question, you'll get a simple answer. Ask tuners these more complex questions, and you'll hear crickets.

 

Exactly why I said I'll wait to tune mine once it is out of warranty. I wouldn't want to be the experimental guinea pig to find that GM can indeed find a tune that it supposed to be stealthy. If a tuner company wants to step up to the plate and provide a 100 % guarantee that their tune is undetectable and cover me if a failure was to occur and warranty voided due to flash detection, I might change my opinion. I've yet to hear of any vendors claiming such support.

 

Without violating any confidences, I forgot to mention above that I've run across at least one tuning and performance company, that is completely honest about this. When I had an F-Type, I spent a lot of time talking to Velocity AP, which is doing great work on tuning Jaguars and Aston-Martins, among others.

They were/are completely upfront in saying there is no such thing as an undetectable tune, and if an OEM wants to find it, they will. They openly published this on the Jaguar F-Type forum, so I'm violating no confidences.

 

I don't understand why people think GM should cover their engine if they go ahead and make changes to the way the company designed and tested it. I find it amazing how many people are willing to commit fraud if they could get away with it.

 

speaking only about myself, i don't expect GM should cover anything i did to cause any damage, but i also don't expect to get denied for anything just cause they hear there was a tune on it at any point. For instance, the very well known A8 issue. "oh you had a tune on this at some point? Too bad you have one of our bad torque converters, cause we aren't paying to replace it"...

 

A tune on it at any point in an engine's lifetime is grounds for denial. That's clearly stated in the warranty section of your owner's manual.

 

^^Well said - SharkGrayStingray!!

 

They can put whatever they want in the book, but isn't there a law saying they can't deny warranty solely based on any alteration, but they have to prove the alteration caused the damage? (not 100% sure on what the law states...)

 

You're referring to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 (MM). It refers to things like after-market air filters, oil filters, cat-back exhaust systems. MM prohibits warranty denial for things that do not affect the OEM operation of the vehicle. An non-OEM engine tune is not one of those things.

It has been tested many times by people who have modified their engines and had warranties denied. They always lose. It will not help you if you've done something that actually alters the OEM power output of your engine. Chances are you may also be violating the Clean Air Act of 1970, and as amended in 1977 and 1990.

GM has an army of attorneys, who understand MM, the Clean Air Act, and all other Federal statutes pertaining to motor vehicles very well.