Engine Missing, Flashing, CEL Codes P0030, P0031, P0053
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,937
OK, maybe we're getting somewhere now. I just heard back from the dealer. Three completely different codes were triggered this morning all for the same O2 sensor, and none of the previous codes repeated. They contacted Chevrolet, and were told they've seen this problem recently in new cars and instructed them to change the O2 sensor.
Sounds like a bad run of 02 sensors in recent production.
Sounds like a bad run of 02 sensors in recent production.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,960
Likes: 1,106
Sounds very promising Foosh. I didn't buy the fuel issue explanation because those codes are very specific with reference to the heater circuit and the only way the fuel is going to affect the heater circuit is if you spring a major leak and set the wiring harness on fire.
I suspect that they have some sensors where the heater element weld to its terminating leads (inside the sensor proper) wasn't done properly so it is intermittently failing open. I suspect the supplier has done a few sensor autopsies and identified the issue.
I suspect that they have some sensors where the heater element weld to its terminating leads (inside the sensor proper) wasn't done properly so it is intermittently failing open. I suspect the supplier has done a few sensor autopsies and identified the issue.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 17,982
Likes: 1,069
From: Lansing MI
For some reason I had it in my mind you ordered this exact car. Maybe I'm imagining that for some reason.
The difficulty here is being patient. The car will be easy to fix once it is consistently malfunctioning.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 17,982
Likes: 1,069
From: Lansing MI
OK, maybe we're getting somewhere now. I just heard back from the dealer. Three completely different codes were triggered this morning all for the same O2 sensor, and none of the previous codes repeated. They contacted Chevrolet, and were told they've seen this problem recently in new cars and instructed them to change the O2 sensor.
Sounds like a bad run of 02 sensors in recent production.
Sounds like a bad run of 02 sensors in recent production.
Its also worth saying that they a quite fragile. Inside them is porcelain, so dropping one or being rough with them can damage them. Something like that could easily have happened before or while your car was being assembled, and the problem is just now showing up.
It might seem disheartening that the cel was on when you first went to pick the car up, but I see that as a good thing.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 17,982
Likes: 1,069
From: Lansing MI
Sounds very promising Foosh. I didn't buy the fuel issue explanation because those codes are very specific with reference to the heater circuit and the only way the fuel is going to affect the heater circuit is if you spring a major leak and set the wiring harness on fire.
I suspect that they have some sensors where the heater element weld to its terminating leads (inside the sensor proper) wasn't done properly so it is intermittently failing open. I suspect the supplier has done a few sensor autopsies and identified the issue.
I suspect that they have some sensors where the heater element weld to its terminating leads (inside the sensor proper) wasn't done properly so it is intermittently failing open. I suspect the supplier has done a few sensor autopsies and identified the issue.
If something is bouncing around inside the body of the sensor, then an intermittent short between circuits could happen as well. Although that would take just the exact right conditions. One thing is for sure, heated o2 sensors konk out all the time.
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Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 17,982
Likes: 1,069
From: Lansing MI
OK, maybe we're getting somewhere now. I just heard back from the dealer. Three completely different codes were triggered this morning all for the same O2 sensor, and none of the previous codes repeated. They contacted Chevrolet, and were told they've seen this problem recently in new cars and instructed them to change the O2 sensor.
Sounds like a bad run of 02 sensors in recent production.
Sounds like a bad run of 02 sensors in recent production.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,937
Just got home after a 35-mile drive home from the dealer, and the car seems fine. All along, the most logical cause in my mind was the 02 sensor and that seemed to take care of it.
The codes the car presented this morning, with a CEL as soon as I started it when I picked it up, were entirely different than the original codes, and I was told they pointed more specifically at the 02 sensor. I don't have them because they haven't yet emailed me the service invoice. Chevrolet confirmed there had been a recent problem w/ 02 sensors. What I don't understand is why those codes didn't also present yesterday along with the original ones.
I clearly don't want to "lemon law" this car as I did custom order it. I only mentioned that I would if it ends up going in multiple times for the same problem. Hopefully, I'll never see this problem again.
Thanks for all the help, support, and ideas here. You guys are great!
The codes the car presented this morning, with a CEL as soon as I started it when I picked it up, were entirely different than the original codes, and I was told they pointed more specifically at the 02 sensor. I don't have them because they haven't yet emailed me the service invoice. Chevrolet confirmed there had been a recent problem w/ 02 sensors. What I don't understand is why those codes didn't also present yesterday along with the original ones.
I clearly don't want to "lemon law" this car as I did custom order it. I only mentioned that I would if it ends up going in multiple times for the same problem. Hopefully, I'll never see this problem again.
Thanks for all the help, support, and ideas here. You guys are great!
Last edited by Foosh; Apr 13, 2018 at 05:56 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 17,982
Likes: 1,069
From: Lansing MI
Just got home after a 35-mile drive home from the dealer, and the car seems fine. All along, the most logical cause in my mind was the 02 sensor and that seemed to take care of it.
The codes the car presented this morning with a CEL as soon as I started it when I picked it up, were entirely different than the original codes, and I was told they pointed more specifically at the 02 sensor. I don't have them because they haven't yet emailed me the service invoice. Chevrolet confirmed there had been a recent problem w/ 02 sensors. What I don't understand is why those codes didn't also present yesterday along with the original ones.
I clearly don't want to "lemon law" this car as I did custom order it. I only mentioned that I would if it ends up going in multiple times for the same problem. Hopefully, I'll never see this problem again.
Thanks for all the help, support, and ideas here. You guys are great!
The codes the car presented this morning with a CEL as soon as I started it when I picked it up, were entirely different than the original codes, and I was told they pointed more specifically at the 02 sensor. I don't have them because they haven't yet emailed me the service invoice. Chevrolet confirmed there had been a recent problem w/ 02 sensors. What I don't understand is why those codes didn't also present yesterday along with the original ones.
I clearly don't want to "lemon law" this car as I did custom order it. I only mentioned that I would if it ends up going in multiple times for the same problem. Hopefully, I'll never see this problem again.
Thanks for all the help, support, and ideas here. You guys are great!
Without knowing the new codes, its impossible to say for certain why they didn't show up previously. I can tell you for certain though, that sometimes once a failure is logged, the pcm just disregards the signal from that circuit, and sort of stops self testing it, and that's it until the code is cleared. Since you had a solid cel light, from the first code or codes, the pcm probably just disregarded everything to do with that circuit, and didn't continue "self testing" for lack of a better description.
I don't know for certain if that's the case here, but its a common hazard for drivability guys to get a circuit or system up and running, only to find out that the check engine light will come right back on for a different reason. Of course this is very difficult to explain to a customer who just sees the check engine light and its difficult to tolerate the fallout when your the tech.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,380
Likes: 3,499
From: Lake Havasu City Arizona
Glad to here it! I'll drink to that.....
You always help everyone in the forum. Glad we could offer at least a little support. I have always appreciated your help. I'm not a mechanic....just a driver.
You always help everyone in the forum. Glad we could offer at least a little support. I have always appreciated your help. I'm not a mechanic....just a driver.
Last edited by joemessman; Apr 13, 2018 at 06:31 PM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,937
Well so far so good then.
Without knowing the new codes, its impossible to say for certain why they didn't show up previously. I can tell you for certain though, that sometimes once a failure is logged, the pcm just disregards the signal from that circuit, and sort of stops self testing it, and that's it until the code is cleared. Since you had a solid cel light, from the first code or codes, the pcm probably just disregarded everything to do with that circuit, and didn't continue "self testing" for lack of a better description.
I don't know for certain if that's the case here, but its a common hazard for drivability guys to get a circuit or system up and running, only to find out that the check engine light will come right back on for a different reason. Of course this is very difficult to explain to a customer who just sees the check engine light and its difficult to tolerate the fallout when your the tech.
Without knowing the new codes, its impossible to say for certain why they didn't show up previously. I can tell you for certain though, that sometimes once a failure is logged, the pcm just disregards the signal from that circuit, and sort of stops self testing it, and that's it until the code is cleared. Since you had a solid cel light, from the first code or codes, the pcm probably just disregarded everything to do with that circuit, and didn't continue "self testing" for lack of a better description.
I don't know for certain if that's the case here, but its a common hazard for drivability guys to get a circuit or system up and running, only to find out that the check engine light will come right back on for a different reason. Of course this is very difficult to explain to a customer who just sees the check engine light and its difficult to tolerate the fallout when your the tech.
I do sympathize with the complexities of today's systems and didn't get testy at all today with the tech or service advisor. You catch more bees with honey, and I'm good now. Thanks for the help!
Racer
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 372
Likes: 201
From: Cape Cod Massachusetts
St. Jude Donor '19
You do so much for this community that my heart sank when I saw you were having issues. So glad it looks to have been resolved. I’ll keep sending positive thoughts with hopes that you never have any other issues and can just keep enjoying the hell out of that car
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,937
Demnos,
Thank you, and I really appreciate the kind words from you and many others. I've been so lucky for so long w/ my assorted vehicles, that it's a good refresher for me to feel what other folks experience.
Today's very complex vehicles are incredibly reliable, but it is very frustrating on those rare occasions when when they're not, and when problems are hard to pinpoint. I'm blessed with good resources in this area, and what pains me is when others don't have access to those same competent resources.
Thank you, and I really appreciate the kind words from you and many others. I've been so lucky for so long w/ my assorted vehicles, that it's a good refresher for me to feel what other folks experience.
Today's very complex vehicles are incredibly reliable, but it is very frustrating on those rare occasions when when they're not, and when problems are hard to pinpoint. I'm blessed with good resources in this area, and what pains me is when others don't have access to those same competent resources.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,104
Likes: 626
From: Baton Rouge LA
That's why I mentioned in an earlier thread that I always have trepidation buying a new car because it's a crap shoot, reminiscent of Forrest Gump's famous quote about the box of chocolates. My 2015 always ran fine, except for A8 issues, but on several occasions I received monthly OnStar diagnostic emails showing numerous problems, including for the hybrid-technology and 4WD systems. No codes and dealers never could figure it out, so I ignored the ominous emails. The 2017 GS has been utterly perfect now for over a year (knocking firmly on wood).
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
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Funny you should mention that. I've said many times on this forum that I really like to purchase CPO cars because they have a maintenance history, which one can evaluate, as well as extra factory backing. If you find one that's been clean for 3-4K miles, that car is likely a good bet to be trouble-free for a long life. New cars obviously have no service history.
Because I had an immediate desire for a Sebring Orange, M7 convertible and no other choice but to buy new, I took the plunge, ordered a new one, and traded a completely flawless '14 CPO M7 convertible I purchased several years ago. At that time, I said I probably need to have my head examined, but I did so anyway. My wife reminded me of that today. Hopefully, I didn't make the wrong decision, and this little glitch is now behind me.
We'll see. I don't necessarily think I'm out of the woods yet, but am hopeful.
Because I had an immediate desire for a Sebring Orange, M7 convertible and no other choice but to buy new, I took the plunge, ordered a new one, and traded a completely flawless '14 CPO M7 convertible I purchased several years ago. At that time, I said I probably need to have my head examined, but I did so anyway. My wife reminded me of that today. Hopefully, I didn't make the wrong decision, and this little glitch is now behind me.
We'll see. I don't necessarily think I'm out of the woods yet, but am hopeful.
Last edited by Foosh; Apr 14, 2018 at 12:00 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,960
Likes: 1,106
Foosh,
I am 95% confident they identified the problem and it was the sensor, maybe 98% since that part has a specific known failure issue due to production faults. If it wasn't the sensor it would have to be a connector or the wiring harness and although more of a pain it is still a narrow problem area. Stuff that can be a real pain are broad issues like intermittent poor operation of an engine which will sometimes set no DTCs or otherwise will set a wide range of DTCs none of which will come close to narrowing down the issue like those DTCs your C7 set associated with the heated oxygen sensor. Even worse to resolve can be an annoying vehicle noise that is both intermittent in nature AND only shows up under a narrow range of conditions but not all of the time when those conditions are apparently met.
And I know the feeling you have about trading in a flawless current vehicle for new. I am probably trading in my flawless 2006 GMC with its very simple diesel emissions equipment for a new 2018 GMC 2500HD next week. Hopefully I won't regret it because I want the additional power and technology of the latest version but it is far more complex than my current Sierra HD.
I am 95% confident they identified the problem and it was the sensor, maybe 98% since that part has a specific known failure issue due to production faults. If it wasn't the sensor it would have to be a connector or the wiring harness and although more of a pain it is still a narrow problem area. Stuff that can be a real pain are broad issues like intermittent poor operation of an engine which will sometimes set no DTCs or otherwise will set a wide range of DTCs none of which will come close to narrowing down the issue like those DTCs your C7 set associated with the heated oxygen sensor. Even worse to resolve can be an annoying vehicle noise that is both intermittent in nature AND only shows up under a narrow range of conditions but not all of the time when those conditions are apparently met.
And I know the feeling you have about trading in a flawless current vehicle for new. I am probably trading in my flawless 2006 GMC with its very simple diesel emissions equipment for a new 2018 GMC 2500HD next week. Hopefully I won't regret it because I want the additional power and technology of the latest version but it is far more complex than my current Sierra HD.
Last edited by NSC5; Apr 14, 2018 at 07:53 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 17,982
Likes: 1,069
From: Lansing MI
Not to keep harping on this thread but .... If this were my car, then I would be driving it on as many short trips as possible this weekend. I would make as many excuses as I could to stop and restart the engine. An example would be instead of going through the drive thru, shut the car off and go inside, so you come back out and restart. Twice so far, the act of starting the engine has affected the symptoms. First when the failure initially occurred, it corrected itself upon the first restart, and second when you picked up the car, the starting event occurred and immediately it reset the light with additional codes. I would also drive the car in the rain if you can find some rain. Not that I want the car to be dirty, but water and humidity have a way of aggravating intermittent electrical problems. This should surprise no one.
If you can get through a few dozen start/restart events without trouble, and maybe a hundred or so miles on it, then its probably actually fixed and of no further concern.
If you can get through a few dozen start/restart events without trouble, and maybe a hundred or so miles on it, then its probably actually fixed and of no further concern.