Hard to believe a $51,000 new convertible
06-13-2019, 12:31 AM
#21
Totally agree. Mike is up front, honest, and knows his product. No BS. Helpful without being overbearing, if you know what you want he gets it for you, and if you are on the fence he explains what the various options are. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another vehicle from Mike.
Thankfully, I found an out the door new C7 locally in Houston, Texas. At -20% off MSRP. Damn lucky to have found it. I bought it on-the-spot. The C7 convertible in my avatar.
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bbbvettes.com (06-13-2019)
06-13-2019, 12:45 AM
#22
You're clouding the issue of price matching. Probably intentionally, but not sure....?
Not one Chev. dealer I contacted in person or on the phone in Texas and Louisiana would price match MacMulkin Chev. Cadillac on a new ordered C7. I'm certain you wouldn't either, after reading your attached post.
A lot of you Chev. dealer sales reps play games with interested new to order Corvette buyers. A good percentage burn the enquiring new Corvette buyer for life. I got a long list of Chev. dealers in Texas and Louisiana where I reside, that will never get my new Corvette business, because of their shady shell games they play on a cash buyer of a new ordered Corvette.
Not one Chev. dealer I contacted in person or on the phone in Texas and Louisiana would price match MacMulkin Chev. Cadillac on a new ordered C7. I'm certain you wouldn't either, after reading your attached post.
A lot of you Chev. dealer sales reps play games with interested new to order Corvette buyers. A good percentage burn the enquiring new Corvette buyer for life. I got a long list of Chev. dealers in Texas and Louisiana where I reside, that will never get my new Corvette business, because of their shady shell games they play on a cash buyer of a new ordered Corvette.
People just attack, even when they... aren't sure if you deserve the insult
Skid, he was very clear that the problem is websites and newspapers allow dealers to stack all possible rebates into their advertised prices... sometimes they will stack rebates that can't be stacked with each other, and rates that can't be stacked with the rebates, and they put them all together in one lump sum/advertizement.
Then, if the honest dealers DON'T do this also, the shady dealer gets first swipe at customers from hours away because everyone checks the internet now and will drive 2 hours to save a thousand bucks, so an advertised price which is much lower than someone else's hurts the fair and honest dealers.
You are a prime example Skid, you have no problem ordering from 1600 miles away, which is fine, but you are proving my point.
Your story Skid, revolves around a few dealers close to you "playing shell games"
I own no dealerships in Texas, so you are not hurting my feelings to explain what you mean a little bit further pertaining to "shell games with cash deals" because it does not make much sense to me so far.
For the small dealers who only get a few allocations a year, I can understand why they would not sell their vettes at invoice for little to no profit. For bigger dealers, I can understand why they would.
But invoice minus all applicable rebates is by no means the best deal out there.
As I have stated several times on this forum, I bought a car over 10 grand back of invoice, closer to 15 grand back.. and it was from a small dealer.
Timing is everything. And big dealers don't always have the best price.
I like to give everyone in life a fair shot I come across, instead of throw them into a group before I give them a chance. It would probably do you well to keep giving new dealers a shot... as well as new people you meet on corvette forum like Ed up there.
Last edited by bbbvettes.com; 06-13-2019 at 12:46 AM.
06-13-2019, 01:38 AM
#23
Isn't it fun being a car dealer Corvette Ed?
People just attack, even when they... aren't sure if you deserve the insult
Skid, he was very clear that the problem is websites and newspapers allow dealers to stack all possible rebates into their advertised prices... sometimes they will stack rebates that can't be stacked with each other, and rates that can't be stacked with the rebates, and they put them all together in one lump sum/advertizement.
Then, if the honest dealers DON'T do this also, the shady dealer gets first swipe at customers from hours away because everyone checks the internet now and will drive 2 hours to save a thousand bucks, so an advertised price which is much lower than someone else's hurts the fair and honest dealers.
You are a prime example Skid, you have no problem ordering from 1600 miles away, which is fine, but you are proving my point.
Your story Skid, revolves around a few dealers close to you "playing shell games"
I own no dealerships in Texas, so you are not hurting my feelings to explain what you mean a little bit further pertaining to "shell games with cash deals" because it does not make much sense to me so far.
For the small dealers who only get a few allocations a year, I can understand why they would not sell their vettes at invoice for little to no profit. For bigger dealers, I can understand why they would.
But invoice minus all applicable rebates is by no means the best deal out there.
As I have stated several times on this forum, I bought a car over 10 grand back of invoice, closer to 15 grand back.. and it was from a small dealer.
Timing is everything. And big dealers don't always have the best price.
I like to give everyone in life a fair shot I come across, instead of throw them into a group before I give them a chance. It would probably do you well to keep giving new dealers a shot... as well as new people you meet on corvette forum like Ed up there.
People just attack, even when they... aren't sure if you deserve the insult
Skid, he was very clear that the problem is websites and newspapers allow dealers to stack all possible rebates into their advertised prices... sometimes they will stack rebates that can't be stacked with each other, and rates that can't be stacked with the rebates, and they put them all together in one lump sum/advertizement.
Then, if the honest dealers DON'T do this also, the shady dealer gets first swipe at customers from hours away because everyone checks the internet now and will drive 2 hours to save a thousand bucks, so an advertised price which is much lower than someone else's hurts the fair and honest dealers.
You are a prime example Skid, you have no problem ordering from 1600 miles away, which is fine, but you are proving my point.
Your story Skid, revolves around a few dealers close to you "playing shell games"
I own no dealerships in Texas, so you are not hurting my feelings to explain what you mean a little bit further pertaining to "shell games with cash deals" because it does not make much sense to me so far.
For the small dealers who only get a few allocations a year, I can understand why they would not sell their vettes at invoice for little to no profit. For bigger dealers, I can understand why they would.
But invoice minus all applicable rebates is by no means the best deal out there.
As I have stated several times on this forum, I bought a car over 10 grand back of invoice, closer to 15 grand back.. and it was from a small dealer.
Timing is everything. And big dealers don't always have the best price.
I like to give everyone in life a fair shot I come across, instead of throw them into a group before I give them a chance. It would probably do you well to keep giving new dealers a shot... as well as new people you meet on corvette forum like Ed up there.
He's not alone. One little stooge at Classic Chev. in Grapevine, Texas accused me of trying to get his dealership to sell a new Corvette to me under their cost. He even invoked Biblical passage!
I immediately shoved Tommy at MacMulkin's Chev. Cadillac email quote on my Smartphone in his lying face. The ignorant little sales cretin, wouldn't call Tommy on the spot. And of course neither would any Chev. sales rep. You -4% off MSRP posers know when you're beaten down. LOL!
Funny thing is - the next day I called Tommy and related the sleazy Chev. dealership sales cretin incident and we BOTH had a good laugh!!
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bbbvettes.com (06-13-2019)
06-13-2019, 01:55 AM
#24
Corvette Ed was crystal clear in clouding the price match. You'll notice he started citing unknown rebates as if calling in God Almighty on the inquiring buyer to make the pain stop. LOL!.
He's not alone. One little stooge at Classic Chev. in Grapevine, Texas accused me of trying to get his dealership to sell a new Corvette to me under their cost. He even invoked Biblical passage!
I immediately shoved Tommy at MacMulkin's Chev. Cadillac email quote on my Smartphone in his lying face. The ignorant little sales cretin, wouldn't call Tommy on the spot. And of course neither would any Chev. sales rep. You -4% off MSRP posers know when you're beaten down. LOL!
Funny thing is - the next day I called Tommy and related the sleazy Chev. dealership sales cretin incident and we BOTH had a good laugh!!
He's not alone. One little stooge at Classic Chev. in Grapevine, Texas accused me of trying to get his dealership to sell a new Corvette to me under their cost. He even invoked Biblical passage!
I immediately shoved Tommy at MacMulkin's Chev. Cadillac email quote on my Smartphone in his lying face. The ignorant little sales cretin, wouldn't call Tommy on the spot. And of course neither would any Chev. sales rep. You -4% off MSRP posers know when you're beaten down. LOL!
Funny thing is - the next day I called Tommy and related the sleazy Chev. dealership sales cretin incident and we BOTH had a good laugh!!
What i have very little patience for is when people group people like myself and Ed into that category, before they see what we are willing to do.
You'd be surprised how many vettes we have sold over the years to a lot of people you probably know.
The Orange Atomic C6 1/4 mile world record car of Mark Carlisle's... guess where that car came from?
Kirk Herbstreit's? All the execs at Victoria Secret and Limited, a lot of people buy their cars from us. I have no problem with giving GREAT deals.
We have no floorplan, no loans, no interest payments on our cars like most dealers, so we can do thinner deals on a daily basis and be profitable.
I also have no problem to laugh in a customer's face when they try to group me with some other salesman who did them wrong, and quickly show that customer the door.
I have no patience for racists... or tribal people... who's minds lack the ability to give every person a chance, and instead want to inflict pain on me, simply because I hold a similar profession to someone else who they are not fond of. That customer can go cause some other car salesman brain damage.
I'm me, they are them, and Ed is Ed...
you accused Ed of not being willing to price match when Ed was complaining about the dealers who show off all the rebates in their prices, rebates which most people don't qualify for.
Ed never said he was not willing to price match. You not only put words in his mouth, you threw he and I into the "you guys" category, grouping us with a salesman you were not fond of, who is over a thousand miles away from either Ed or myself.
You literally just called Ed and I posers. It's pretty interesting, I don't recall working a deal with you ever. Maybe Ed has, and I'm missing something.
I sell cars back of invoice all day long, especially chevy's
Last edited by bbbvettes.com; 06-13-2019 at 01:38 PM.
06-13-2019, 07:48 AM
#25
Racer
Having just gone through the purchase of a new 19 GS, allow me to share some thoughts and a story. It definitely is not fair to lump all dealers into one category, but you have to admit that every town/city has their idiot dealers (Chevy and other brands included) that plays games. And that is usually the norm and not the exception. Our time as consumers is valuable and the bad dealers ruin it for everyone.
I purchased my 16 Z51 new from a dealer 90 miles away. How did I hear about him??? Through a friend in my car network who dealt with the finance manager directly. I made the drive, liked what I saw and heard, and we put a deal together in less than an hour. This dealer was very small, in a town of 3,200 population and was willing to work with me so he could build his allocation year over year.
About 4 months ago I wanted to upgrade to a new 19 GS. Before going back to my little dealer, I stopped in at all three of the big guys in my city. One had a triple black GS convertible on his lot with a huge $25,000 off MSRP sticker on the window. Turns out, it was an 18 with 7,000+ miles on it which was driven and beat to crap, by a local sports announcer. When I asked him about the reason they were advertising it as new, he told me it was because it was never privately titled and still considered new. Then when I asked him about the factory warranty, he said I had the remainder left which was 14 months or 29,000 miles. Then when I challenged him that new car warranties were 3/36 and since this was a new car according to him, it should have full factory warranty, he started stumbling and back pedaling. Typical of most dealers in my big city area.
I found a carbon 65 at one of the other big dealers and engaged in conversation. I also noticed that his other 6 Corvettes were not discounted at all. Only offering the Chevy loyalty discount in addition to an average of $500 of MSRP. Five minutes into the conversation about the Carbon 65 I asked why no discounts. He told me that “they only have about $1,500 markup in each car so there isn’t much room for negotiations, and the $3,000 incentive was factory so they could offer it. (If I had $5 for each time I heard that, I would have a free car by now). BUT, if I wanted to put a good faith, refundable deposit of $500 down to prove I was a serious buyer, he would go to his manager and see what he could do. REALLY?? When I asked to speak to the new car manager, he came out 20 minutes later and told me I needed to work with his sales person as he, the manager, did not do deals directly with the consumer.
So so two long stories short, I went back to my little dealer as originally planned, drove the 90 miles one way and closed the deal on a car he found for me and had shipped in after trading with another dealer.
Purpose of all this?? There are more dealers that play the bait and switch game then there are up front and honest ones as yourself. The challenge for us as consumers is that there isn’t enough time to call each one and determine if we want to do business with you. And with no prior experience with your dealership, what would make you different than all the rest, with the advertising tactics.
That is why guys like Mike F stand out on forums like these. They have a loyal following for a reason and consumers know what to expect based upon endless positive feedback.
You chose to be be in a profession that unfortunately has more bad players than good. To be offended and feel “grouped in with the others” seems petty and you should do something to differentiate yourself from the rest, instead of complaining that no one gave you a shot. We as consumers want to be treated with respect just as you do as a dealer. When spending $60K + on a toy, we don’t want a line of BS at every turn. Be creative and a trendsetter in changing an industry that has typically been considered very low on the honesty and pleasure to deal with scale.
I purchased my 16 Z51 new from a dealer 90 miles away. How did I hear about him??? Through a friend in my car network who dealt with the finance manager directly. I made the drive, liked what I saw and heard, and we put a deal together in less than an hour. This dealer was very small, in a town of 3,200 population and was willing to work with me so he could build his allocation year over year.
About 4 months ago I wanted to upgrade to a new 19 GS. Before going back to my little dealer, I stopped in at all three of the big guys in my city. One had a triple black GS convertible on his lot with a huge $25,000 off MSRP sticker on the window. Turns out, it was an 18 with 7,000+ miles on it which was driven and beat to crap, by a local sports announcer. When I asked him about the reason they were advertising it as new, he told me it was because it was never privately titled and still considered new. Then when I asked him about the factory warranty, he said I had the remainder left which was 14 months or 29,000 miles. Then when I challenged him that new car warranties were 3/36 and since this was a new car according to him, it should have full factory warranty, he started stumbling and back pedaling. Typical of most dealers in my big city area.
I found a carbon 65 at one of the other big dealers and engaged in conversation. I also noticed that his other 6 Corvettes were not discounted at all. Only offering the Chevy loyalty discount in addition to an average of $500 of MSRP. Five minutes into the conversation about the Carbon 65 I asked why no discounts. He told me that “they only have about $1,500 markup in each car so there isn’t much room for negotiations, and the $3,000 incentive was factory so they could offer it. (If I had $5 for each time I heard that, I would have a free car by now). BUT, if I wanted to put a good faith, refundable deposit of $500 down to prove I was a serious buyer, he would go to his manager and see what he could do. REALLY?? When I asked to speak to the new car manager, he came out 20 minutes later and told me I needed to work with his sales person as he, the manager, did not do deals directly with the consumer.
So so two long stories short, I went back to my little dealer as originally planned, drove the 90 miles one way and closed the deal on a car he found for me and had shipped in after trading with another dealer.
Purpose of all this?? There are more dealers that play the bait and switch game then there are up front and honest ones as yourself. The challenge for us as consumers is that there isn’t enough time to call each one and determine if we want to do business with you. And with no prior experience with your dealership, what would make you different than all the rest, with the advertising tactics.
That is why guys like Mike F stand out on forums like these. They have a loyal following for a reason and consumers know what to expect based upon endless positive feedback.
You chose to be be in a profession that unfortunately has more bad players than good. To be offended and feel “grouped in with the others” seems petty and you should do something to differentiate yourself from the rest, instead of complaining that no one gave you a shot. We as consumers want to be treated with respect just as you do as a dealer. When spending $60K + on a toy, we don’t want a line of BS at every turn. Be creative and a trendsetter in changing an industry that has typically been considered very low on the honesty and pleasure to deal with scale.
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06-13-2019, 01:36 PM
#26
Once you see the website I have been building for over 10 years, you will realize I agree with you 100%. We have something that puts ebay and autotrader into the stone age.
The game is going to be changed, nationally, very soon. You will love my website, I promise.
To your story, and to further explain why the dealer listed the 8000 mile car as new, is because it still qualified for new car rebates and financing. It was like a "service loaner car, or manager demo".
The warranty has to be started on the car, but it qualifies for new car programs and incentives. Him not willing to be up front with you about the pros and cons is too bad.
I hope to be putting every shady individual in the car biz, out of a job soon enough. My website does not let them thrive. It exposes them very quickly.
The game is going to be changed, nationally, very soon. You will love my website, I promise.
To your story, and to further explain why the dealer listed the 8000 mile car as new, is because it still qualified for new car rebates and financing. It was like a "service loaner car, or manager demo".
The warranty has to be started on the car, but it qualifies for new car programs and incentives. Him not willing to be up front with you about the pros and cons is too bad.
I hope to be putting every shady individual in the car biz, out of a job soon enough. My website does not let them thrive. It exposes them very quickly.
Last edited by bbbvettes.com; 06-13-2019 at 01:41 PM.
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bbbvettes.com (06-13-2019),
JK 23112 (06-13-2019)
06-13-2019, 04:08 PM
#28
as soon as I can get this last step figured out. Just remember... "contingency chains are the devil"
Everything else I solved with ease relatively speaking... these "c chains" might make me go down in history if I can bring it to life. I should have released the other ideas 7 years ago... but we have been slaving to solve the contingency chains.. because whoever solves those, might actually knock Amazon off its throne. And I'm not just saying that.
But I am very close. While I was solving it, I had my web guy building the other stuff I had already figured out. Its been a giant game of slow and steady wins the race... we hope
I should have just let the other ideas all fly and gotten big investors... and had 100 coders and been done years ago.... but since I had not yet conquered contingency chains.... I did not want to show everyone else the first steps and then let them beat me to the last step.
Whoever controls contingency chains patens on this planet... might be the new boss.
Good behavior cant survive and prosper when bad behavior is rewarded more handsomely. Thus, if we solve this for the car business, the platform spreads to all other businesses as well. It's like capitalism 2.0 People have lost sight that it's about the "fair trading of goods, and eliminating leaches and unnecessary middlemen from the trading of goods".
Any time an unnecessary middle man can be eliminated, and has to instead go and do something actually beneficial to mankind to earn a living... then the world becomes richer.
The goods he was the unnecessary middle man on before, are still being produced, and now he has to go produce other goods in addition to those.
We as a society have lost sight of how simple it all is, we chase money instead of chase a better produced good and more of them. And then there is the ocean full of trash.... another thing we need to focus on how to solve. I have big dreams.
A website that solves all of this, but still protects small local businesses, and puts Amazon in check... is a miracle most people don't believe is possible... but I promise you its coming. I may or may not be the first to invent, but I will make sure it is invented and running before I die, if no one else does.
I don't care who solves it, i just want it solved at this point, and not in the wrong hands where it can be suppressed.
Everything else I solved with ease relatively speaking... these "c chains" might make me go down in history if I can bring it to life. I should have released the other ideas 7 years ago... but we have been slaving to solve the contingency chains.. because whoever solves those, might actually knock Amazon off its throne. And I'm not just saying that.
But I am very close. While I was solving it, I had my web guy building the other stuff I had already figured out. Its been a giant game of slow and steady wins the race... we hope
I should have just let the other ideas all fly and gotten big investors... and had 100 coders and been done years ago.... but since I had not yet conquered contingency chains.... I did not want to show everyone else the first steps and then let them beat me to the last step.
Whoever controls contingency chains patens on this planet... might be the new boss.
Good behavior cant survive and prosper when bad behavior is rewarded more handsomely. Thus, if we solve this for the car business, the platform spreads to all other businesses as well. It's like capitalism 2.0 People have lost sight that it's about the "fair trading of goods, and eliminating leaches and unnecessary middlemen from the trading of goods".
Any time an unnecessary middle man can be eliminated, and has to instead go and do something actually beneficial to mankind to earn a living... then the world becomes richer.
The goods he was the unnecessary middle man on before, are still being produced, and now he has to go produce other goods in addition to those.
We as a society have lost sight of how simple it all is, we chase money instead of chase a better produced good and more of them. And then there is the ocean full of trash.... another thing we need to focus on how to solve. I have big dreams.
A website that solves all of this, but still protects small local businesses, and puts Amazon in check... is a miracle most people don't believe is possible... but I promise you its coming. I may or may not be the first to invent, but I will make sure it is invented and running before I die, if no one else does.
I don't care who solves it, i just want it solved at this point, and not in the wrong hands where it can be suppressed.
Last edited by bbbvettes.com; 06-13-2019 at 04:30 PM.
06-13-2019, 05:22 PM
#30
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Corvette ED (06-14-2019)
06-14-2019, 08:35 AM
#32
Melting Slicks
I purchased my 16 Z51 new from a dealer 90 miles away. How did I hear about him??? Through a friend in my car network who dealt with the finance manager directly. I made the drive, liked what I saw and heard, and we put a deal together in less than an hour. This dealer was very small, in a town of 3,200 population and was willing to work with me so he could build his allocation year over year.
.
.
Similarly , if I want another Corvette I first will be in touch with Dennis Tap at Les Stanford Chevy in Dearborn. He made the entire buying experience extremely easy and had a great deal, even handled an unexpected glitch expeditiously. Why wouldn't I give him a call?
06-14-2019, 09:50 AM
#34
Safety Car
there had never been a better time to buy a C7 Corvette!
06-14-2019, 11:15 AM
#35
Not sure if the prices can dip much further but you can get into a 2019 Convertible for $51,000......and a coupe for $48,000------You can have 3 New Vettes in your stable rather then a fully loaded ZR1 Convertible...…… I know unfair comparison but you would be the only one on your Block with 3 New Corvettes in your driveway....Wow wrecking the used Corvette Market.....H
06-14-2019, 03:52 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Pottsville, PA. USA Home Of America's Oldest Brewery Yuengling
Posts: 9,063
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I have no doubt the guy in Texas took advantage of you, or tried to.
What i have very little patience for is when people group people like myself and Ed into that category, before they see what we are willing to do.
I'm me, they are them, and Ed is Ed...
you accused Ed of not being willing to price match when Ed was complaining about the dealers who show off all the rebates in their prices, rebates which most people don't qualify for.
Ed never said he was not willing to price match. You not only put words in his mouth, you threw he and I into the "you guys" category, grouping us with a salesman you were not fond of, who is over a thousand miles away from either Ed or myself.
You literally just called Ed and I posers. It's pretty interesting, I don't recall working a deal with you ever. Maybe Ed has, and I'm missing something.
I sell cars back of invoice all day long, especially chevy's
What i have very little patience for is when people group people like myself and Ed into that category, before they see what we are willing to do.
I'm me, they are them, and Ed is Ed...
you accused Ed of not being willing to price match when Ed was complaining about the dealers who show off all the rebates in their prices, rebates which most people don't qualify for.
Ed never said he was not willing to price match. You not only put words in his mouth, you threw he and I into the "you guys" category, grouping us with a salesman you were not fond of, who is over a thousand miles away from either Ed or myself.
You literally just called Ed and I posers. It's pretty interesting, I don't recall working a deal with you ever. Maybe Ed has, and I'm missing something.
I sell cars back of invoice all day long, especially chevy's
In my post, I never said I wouldn't match or beat the deal from the other dealer. My problem is the other dealer takes every GM rebate deducts it from the price of the car to show it at a ridiculously low price that it could never be bought for? The buying public today only looks at the advertised price and never reads the fine print. When you try to explain it to them they all think your lying? It is against GM policy to advertise a GM product with all rebates stacked to make the car look cheap. Does GM enforce their own rules? NO!!!
We have all of our new Corvettes priced at $800.00 under our dead cost. The reason the more we can sell now will give us more C8's to sell. As for matching or beating another dealers price show me a buyers order from them with the car you are buying with your name and address, the vin number of the car, and if you have a trade. I had a customer yesterday on a new Corvette show me a buyers order he got from another dealer and I asked him if i beat the deal will you buy my car today? He said yes and I said congrats on your new Corvette convertible.
Bottom line the customer can tell you anything trying to get you to bite show me the deal you got in writing and I will beat it 98% of the time!!!
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bbbvettes.com (06-14-2019)
06-14-2019, 08:51 PM
#37
Instructor
Hey Corvette ED, thanks for the pm. Been to that Vette show a few times. May stop in early tomorrow morning to check out a couple of your 2 LT's. Make me a deal that I can't refuse.
Rick
Rick
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Corvette ED (06-14-2019)
06-14-2019, 09:20 PM
#38