Poor design
CF Community Team
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 14,150
Likes: 7,435
From: Pittsburgh
2025 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2024 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2023 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2022 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2021 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
There is only so much room under the car....10# of s**t in a 5 # bag 
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,064
Likes: 1,166
From: N. Alabama
Now I agree there are a couple of items or so that might have been thought a little farther out on the scheme of things such as location of hatch button where the left knee accidentally hits it or the exhaust is too loud on the ZR1 to actually use it on the track but overall the engineers have given us one fine performance vehicle. I can only imagine the in-house struggle, heated discussions and knock down dragouts that occurred to reach the final stage of production. I appreciate greatly the work effort that was put forth. My only real complaint has to do with the pitiful service I have been subjected to at a few dealerships. I would certainly like to see GM step up to the plate and yank a few heads at these dealers to get them to clean up their act and provide at the very least a modicum of satisfactory service for the customer.
Pro
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 552
Likes: 489
From: Brooklyn NY
Finalist 2020 C7 of the Year -- Unmodified
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 616
From: Blacksburg Va
Yep, this type stuff is somewhere on almost every car made . One model Lexus I used to work on we could change the headlight bulb surprisingly easily. But the little peanut bulb in the front side marker, we had to partially remove the plastic front bumper cover. On a Lexus SC400, the first step in the repair manual for removing the heat/AC big plastic housing in the dash was????? remove the engine. Yeah, kind of like the Jag mentioned above, one of the mounting bolts through the firewall was 4 inches long and there was only 1.5 inches clearance between the engine and the firewall.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,979
Likes: 4,143
From: Kansas City, MO
There is no way the ranger method comes anywhere near able to purge the cruddy fluid from the lines and calipers. It's barely adequate for the clutch system, and even then I'd only consider it suitable for a lightly driven Sunday cruiser.
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Racer
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 378
Likes: 330
From: Pahrump, NV
Engineers design vehicles for ease of build, not repair. You'd be shocked at some of the boneheaded stuff they do
I have been a Corvette fan, nut, since the age of 13. I have owned a C4, C5, C6, and now a C7. How do the smart engineers at Chevrolet design a Corvette that requires catalytic converter and part of the exhaust to be removed in order to change clutch fluid and bleed off the complete system. They designed a system that made the bleeder on the slave cylinder a major job to reach. This recommended maintenance job cost me $400 to complete. Makes no sense!
Pro
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 582
Likes: 170
From: Indiana
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 38
Likes: 18
Your answer is Money..all about money and profits.
For example changing a burn light bulbs off a c7.
You option are to take the whole bumper apart or remove the wheels, unscrew the touch screw to get access to the bulb. Both are a pain to do. If you can’t do it, another option us to take it to a dealership to replace the bulb which they charge heavily for labor.
For example changing a burn light bulbs off a c7.
You option are to take the whole bumper apart or remove the wheels, unscrew the touch screw to get access to the bulb. Both are a pain to do. If you can’t do it, another option us to take it to a dealership to replace the bulb which they charge heavily for labor.
Last edited by vetteguy5578; Apr 25, 2021 at 04:04 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,792
Likes: 98
From: Marlborough Ma
I did the Ranger method on our C5 and C6. After a few changes the fluid stayed clean for quite a while. The first time I opened the cap at 12,000 miles the fluid was nasty. Black with some kind of film floating on top. The method is easy and it work for me.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 388
Likes: 213
From: RI
These threads always crack me up.
Is anyone posting here an engineer? A mechanical engineer, or better yet a mechanical product design engineer?
When I was in highschool I used to think a lot of the negative things posted above. All I can say is that as a mechanical product design engineer with more than a decade of experience, there are more factors to be considered than you could ever imagine. Cost and servicability are of course factors, but there are many, many other things to worry about, in every industry that the general public knows nothing about and engineers need to balance all these factors the best they can given the time they have. Time is a massive limiter. A lot of times just as I feel I am catching my breath on a design, management pulls me onto something new because the market NEEDS it. No time to refine.
Wish I could beam this experience into this post so then you could all "download" it and stand back and appreciate the amazing job GM engineers did on the C7. Truly a wonderful job.
That is all. Good day.
Is anyone posting here an engineer? A mechanical engineer, or better yet a mechanical product design engineer?
When I was in highschool I used to think a lot of the negative things posted above. All I can say is that as a mechanical product design engineer with more than a decade of experience, there are more factors to be considered than you could ever imagine. Cost and servicability are of course factors, but there are many, many other things to worry about, in every industry that the general public knows nothing about and engineers need to balance all these factors the best they can given the time they have. Time is a massive limiter. A lot of times just as I feel I am catching my breath on a design, management pulls me onto something new because the market NEEDS it. No time to refine.
Wish I could beam this experience into this post so then you could all "download" it and stand back and appreciate the amazing job GM engineers did on the C7. Truly a wonderful job.
That is all. Good day.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,979
Likes: 4,143
From: Kansas City, MO
So can anyone explain to me why you need to pull the slave cylinder out of the car to install a remote bleeder? It looks like there's plenty of access to the bleed fitting once the cat is removed. I don't understand why you can't just pull that out and screw the remote bleeder in.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 539
Likes: 78
I should say I'm not at all mechnically oriented but as a 30+ year computer programmer I totally understand @Dennis Bernal
I've been in the position of telling a user that something he considered "sounds pretty easy" was, in actuality, very difficult.
I've also been in exactly the opposite situation.
Anywho, not knowing anything about the "Ranger method", I googled it and came up with this article (which refers back to a thread on here for its origin).
Ranger Method
I've been in the position of telling a user that something he considered "sounds pretty easy" was, in actuality, very difficult.
I've also been in exactly the opposite situation.
Anywho, not knowing anything about the "Ranger method", I googled it and came up with this article (which refers back to a thread on here for its origin).
Ranger Method
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 799
From: East Lansing, MI
Safety Car
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,680
Likes: 1,040
Last edited by c5arlen; Apr 28, 2021 at 03:35 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,979
Likes: 4,143
From: Kansas City, MO
I decided I was going to bleed my clutch the right way. What an absolute pain in the ***. If they had just used manifold studs that were a quarter inch shorter, the cat pipe would have dropped right out. As it is, the cat gets trapped between the manifold studs and the engine cradle. You can rock the engine on the mounts to get it free, but it shouldn't be that way at all. If I could get the studs out of the manifold without the risk of snapping them off, I'd install shorter ones. Putting it back in is going to be a massive headache. I can't believe they consider this to be a regular maintenance item.
I also answered my own question regarding the remote bleeder. The factory bleed fitting is a couple inches long. Getting it out would be fairly easy. But getting the remote bleeder fittings into the clutch slave correctly, and getting them tightened down would be nearly impossible due to lack of clearance. It's hard enough to get a wrench on the bleeder to begin with. It's just not a risk I'm willing to take.
I also answered my own question regarding the remote bleeder. The factory bleed fitting is a couple inches long. Getting it out would be fairly easy. But getting the remote bleeder fittings into the clutch slave correctly, and getting them tightened down would be nearly impossible due to lack of clearance. It's hard enough to get a wrench on the bleeder to begin with. It's just not a risk I'm willing to take.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 414
From: Germantown Maryland
Thanks, I had been wondering about that myself. I have yet to take this task on, still just doing Ranger. But it really would be better to do the full monty.
I decided I was going to bleed my clutch the right way. What an absolute pain in the ***. If they had just used manifold studs that were a quarter inch shorter, the cat pipe would have dropped right out. As it is, the cat gets trapped between the manifold studs and the engine cradle. You can rock the engine on the mounts to get it free, but it shouldn't be that way at all. If I could get the studs out of the manifold without the risk of snapping them off, I'd install shorter ones. Putting it back in is going to be a massive headache. I can't believe they consider this to be a regular maintenance item.
I also answered my own question regarding the remote bleeder. The factory bleed fitting is a couple inches long. Getting it out would be fairly easy. But getting the remote bleeder fittings into the clutch slave correctly, and getting them tightened down would be nearly impossible due to lack of clearance. It's hard enough to get a wrench on the bleeder to begin with. It's just not a risk I'm willing to take.
I also answered my own question regarding the remote bleeder. The factory bleed fitting is a couple inches long. Getting it out would be fairly easy. But getting the remote bleeder fittings into the clutch slave correctly, and getting them tightened down would be nearly impossible due to lack of clearance. It's hard enough to get a wrench on the bleeder to begin with. It's just not a risk I'm willing to take.