Traction Control
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 367
From: Iowa
I'll add my $.02. since the OP is in Central, IL so we probably have a similar climate and I also have a '14 M7 on on the original 10yr old tires (rear only). I've done several WOT pulls and I have only recently experienced TC issues. I have two thoughts on why. 1) Temperature was 60 degrees or below and 2) I was on asphalt not concrete. Being summer tires they should be good down to 40 or 50 degrees but at 60 degrees on asphalt it's slippery. I assume that's because asphalt is smoother than concrete so it can't hook up as well, not to mention I'm on 10yr old rock hard tires. Needless to say yours and my tires need to be replaced ASAP and that should make a difference though if you run summer tires you may have issues this time of year since they aren't rated for the colder weather. I'm waiting until spring to put on a good set of All Season tires that way I can enjoy my fall driving and drive until December, weather permitting.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,176
Likes: 142
From: Central Il
I'll add my $.02. since the OP is in Central, IL so we probably have a similar climate and I also have a '14 M7 on on the original 10yr old tires (rear only). I've done several WOT pulls and I have only recently experienced TC issues. I have two thoughts on why. 1) Temperature was 60 degrees or below and 2) I was on asphalt not concrete. Being summer tires they should be good down to 40 or 50 degrees but at 60 degrees on asphalt it's slippery. I assume that's because asphalt is smoother than concrete so it can't hook up as well, not to mention I'm on 10yr old rock hard tires. Needless to say yours and my tires need to be replaced ASAP and that should make a difference though if you run summer tires you may have issues this time of year since they aren't rated for the colder weather. I'm waiting until spring to put on a good set of All Season tires that way I can enjoy my fall driving and drive until December, weather permitting.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 928
From: near philly
TC kicks in when the rear wheel speed increases from whatever speed it was going at a rate beyond what they calculated to mean they're slipping.
If you start from a dead stop and roll into throttle in 1st into wheel spin but do it carefully the TC will NOT kick in because the speed increased at a rate that is still under that threshold.
I've done this countless times, no TC.
It's really hard to do that in any gear other than 1st from a stop.
But it's definitely not related to wheel speed vs front wheels because in that case the difference would be huge
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32,094
Likes: 4,613
I didn't say I was pushing it to it's limits. I mean I feel nothing at medium acceleration. Yes, I have pretty new tires and I'm surprised at how easy it is to spin the tires. I have felt pedal feedback in an older Camaro. I don't feel nor hear anything happening in my car. So, again, I'm not referring to I'm at WOT and wonder why nothing is happening. I'm at medium throttle, just goosing it and I feel nothing.
I will try turning everything off for comparison.
I will try turning everything off for comparison.
Correct.
You do not have to be @ WOT, to break even NEW tires loose on dry concrete pavement WITH TC ON. Which of course was the thrust of this thread.😉
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 928
From: near philly
I mean mine's a z06 but in 1st and 2nd it's easy as pie to break them loose, even in 3rd you can do it but it takes more throttle in that case
and that's good condition summer tires in hot weather totally warmed up rubber
Pro
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 572
Likes: 243
From: Peoria, Arizona
Good to know. This is my experience. I was thinking nothing was working, but if this is your experience too then I won't question the TC
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32,094
Likes: 4,613
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 25,015
Likes: 2,709
From: Far NW 'burbs of Chicago
St. Jude Donor '13
^this is false
TC kicks in when the rear wheel speed increases from whatever speed it was going at a rate beyond what they calculated to mean they're slipping.
If you start from a dead stop and roll into throttle in 1st into wheel spin but do it carefully the TC will NOT kick in because the speed increased at a rate that is still under that threshold.
I've done this countless times, no TC.
It's really hard to do that in any gear other than 1st from a stop.
But it's definitely not related to wheel speed vs front wheels because in that case the difference would be huge
TC kicks in when the rear wheel speed increases from whatever speed it was going at a rate beyond what they calculated to mean they're slipping.
If you start from a dead stop and roll into throttle in 1st into wheel spin but do it carefully the TC will NOT kick in because the speed increased at a rate that is still under that threshold.
I've done this countless times, no TC.
It's really hard to do that in any gear other than 1st from a stop.
But it's definitely not related to wheel speed vs front wheels because in that case the difference would be huge
If we stop on a patch of ice, the TC doesn't know what the wheelspin threshold will be but it quickly cuts in if the rear wheels start to spin. I think it senses the difference between front and rear wheel speed, and there is a threshold value for that difference. That's why installing tires with too big a difference in diameter between front & rear can cause excessive TC intervention.
And there are probably other parts of the equation that we don't know about...
Last edited by Gearhead Jim; Oct 21, 2024 at 08:36 PM.
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Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32,094
Likes: 4,613
The Owner Manual implies that TC initially operates by applying brake to the spinning wheel, and if that isn't enough then it pulls power. That goes along with what I heard at one of the Bash C7 symposiums years ago.
If we stop on a patch of ice, the TC doesn't know what the wheelspin threshold will be but it quickly cuts in if the rear wheels start to spin. I think it senses the difference between front and rear wheel speed, and there is a threshold value for that difference. That's why installing tires with too big a difference in diameter between front & rear can cause excessive TC intervention.
And there are probably other parts of the equation that we don't know about...
If we stop on a patch of ice, the TC doesn't know what the wheelspin threshold will be but it quickly cuts in if the rear wheels start to spin. I think it senses the difference between front and rear wheel speed, and there is a threshold value for that difference. That's why installing tires with too big a difference in diameter between front & rear can cause excessive TC intervention.
And there are probably other parts of the equation that we don't know about...
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 51
Likes: 29
From: Franklin, TN
My seven year old original tires on my 2017 GS vert 7M (the rears will be 8 years old come Dec.) are going to be replaced sooner than later. I don't think I want to wait another 5-6 weeks until my Aerolarri forged rims get here. I mean I'm having fun driving the heck out of it, but full acceleration in 1st or 2nd gear, or even from a good 5-10 mph low speed roll in 1st is a no-no. Right foot down all the way leads to traction control light and rear-end shifting around until I back off. Same with near-max accel. in 2nd gear. I can accelerate pretty hard in 1st and 2nd and get just a little twitchiness from tire spin. I'm hoping new rubber will lessen this and allow for harder acceleration, but everything Kid Rock seems to be saying is coming true in my on-road experience. Especially in the manual there is already enough power in the stock engine with the GS (almost same as Z06 setup except for supercharger and brakes, right?) that it cannot quite tame it. I can't imagine the Z06 in a manual--you've got even more power you cannot control at your disposal, yet you have to be even more moderate with it? I love my setup, stock GS, but I am eager to put on some new rubber and find out to what degree traction improves.
Last edited by clydecpa; Oct 23, 2024 at 05:25 PM. Reason: spelling
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 928
From: near philly
The Owner Manual implies that TC initially operates by applying brake to the spinning wheel, and if that isn't enough then it pulls power. That goes along with what I heard at one of the Bash C7 symposiums years ago.
If we stop on a patch of ice, the TC doesn't know what the wheelspin threshold will be but it quickly cuts in if the rear wheels start to spin. I think it senses the difference between front and rear wheel speed, and there is a threshold value for that difference. That's why installing tires with too big a difference in diameter between front & rear can cause excessive TC intervention.
And there are probably other parts of the equation that we don't know about...
If we stop on a patch of ice, the TC doesn't know what the wheelspin threshold will be but it quickly cuts in if the rear wheels start to spin. I think it senses the difference between front and rear wheel speed, and there is a threshold value for that difference. That's why installing tires with too big a difference in diameter between front & rear can cause excessive TC intervention.
And there are probably other parts of the equation that we don't know about...
I've done it.
if it's too quick it will kick in but if you roll on it just right it will let the rear wheels spin with virtually no rotation on the front beyond a few miles per hour.
I can't speak on brakes vs power cut. IMO it feels like just a power cut for TC
Stability Control is what feels like brake actuation to me
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 8
From: Belleville Il
Thanks for the reply...I've had lots of experience with limited slip and open difs. The question arose from a Test and tune outing. In my C5 just putting it in Track let me launch hard....My C7 turned the dial to track...and it fell flat on it's face, I has to turn off traction control to get a good launch left with a quick lift at around 3500 in bot cases.
Was still pretty happy... managed a 12.49 @ 114.98 on a car that is almost a DD in city driving! Think I can get a little more out of it.
Was still pretty happy... managed a 12.49 @ 114.98 on a car that is almost a DD in city driving! Think I can get a little more out of it.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 257
From: Lake Tapps WA.
Thanks for the reply...I've had lots of experience with limited slip and open difs. The question arose from a Test and tune outing. In my C5 just putting it in Track let me launch hard....My C7 turned the dial to track...and it fell flat on it's face, I has to turn off traction control to get a good launch left with a quick lift at around 3500 in bot cases.
Was still pretty happy... managed a 12.49 @ 114.98 on a car that is almost a DD in city driving! Think I can get a little more out of it.
Was still pretty happy... managed a 12.49 @ 114.98 on a car that is almost a DD in city driving! Think I can get a little more out of it.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 21
Likes: 19
From: N. Georgia
Anytime I drive the car hard I always turn off the T/C and stability control off. lol If you know how to drive the car as well as respect the fact the car will kill you if you do drive over your head you will be fine. Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face then throwing the *** end out and letting the 335's get loose!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 928
From: near philly
Anytime I drive the car hard I always turn off the T/C and stability control off. lol If you know how to drive the car as well as respect the fact the car will kill you if you do drive over your head you will be fine. Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face then throwing the *** end out and letting the 335's get loose!
I'll readily admit I'm not skilled enough to catch this car if those rears slip out on me
On the street just hitting some uneven pavement while on it hard will let it loose
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,176
Likes: 142
From: Central Il
My adventure with trying to get new tires continues.
I had originally went to my local Chevy dealer, but they wanted too much money for the tires I want. I went to my local Firestone/Bridgestone dealer to talk with them. I have a good relationship with them as I've used Bridgestone Potenza tires on my other vehicles for years.They had no problem with me ordering from Tirerack and they would do the installation.
First, they wouldn't lift the car without the jacking pucks. Understandable so I ordered the pucks. After getting the pucks it seems they still didn't want to try and mount the tires because their machine would scar up the wheels due to the stiff, low profile sidewalls. So I'm back to the Chevy dealer for them to do the install. That happens next Monday.
By the time the new tires are on I don't think it will be possible to make a comparison under the same road conditions. Our weather will start going downhill.
I had originally went to my local Chevy dealer, but they wanted too much money for the tires I want. I went to my local Firestone/Bridgestone dealer to talk with them. I have a good relationship with them as I've used Bridgestone Potenza tires on my other vehicles for years.They had no problem with me ordering from Tirerack and they would do the installation.
First, they wouldn't lift the car without the jacking pucks. Understandable so I ordered the pucks. After getting the pucks it seems they still didn't want to try and mount the tires because their machine would scar up the wheels due to the stiff, low profile sidewalls. So I'm back to the Chevy dealer for them to do the install. That happens next Monday.
By the time the new tires are on I don't think it will be possible to make a comparison under the same road conditions. Our weather will start going downhill.
Pro
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 572
Likes: 243
From: Peoria, Arizona
There is also Discount Tire and Costco. I've used Costco, they were a better deal than anywhere else and had no problem working with my car. Funny but I would trust any of them to mount and install tires than the dealer. It's not something they do as much
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 9,163
Likes: 4,011
From: 2019 CMG Z06/ZR1
^^^ He’s got a point. I’ve had a hell of an experience at a local dealer on one of my track Camaros. Local Belle has all of the modern equipment necessary. Not knowing your local dealer’s setup, I don’t want to make general assumptions, but DoubleG has a point based on my experience