I had mine disabled in the tune even though my M7 would never be put in ECO mode anyway> Good day all.
Range device
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1,171
From: Keswick, Virginia
According to THIS article, "You want, you got". CAFE doesn't line the execs up against the wall and shoot them. It just taxes the manufacturer.
Truth is, you don't want to hold onto it indefinitely. You wanted the shiny things that come out each year. Don't tell me Wal*Mart sells crap and you would be willing to pay more for better quality. Tell them by buying the higher quality products. Don't tell me you want better in flight service but yet spring for the cheap discount air fare carriers. Don't tell me you want to eat healthy and I see you inhaling 2 Supersized Big Macs. As to replacement costs, have they really gone up? How long ago was it when McDonald's paid $5 an hour? Today, I just saw a banner for $17. I believe someone showed me the calculation that back in the 60s, a Corvette was "cheaper" in terms of sticker price. OTOH, when you consider inflation, it isn't that much different.
You want "Whiz Bang" stuff every couple of years, you want it to last forever. I don't know if that is possible.
I think it will sell to a few people but I don't see people wanting that in general. Make a pile of the old black and white chunky TVs and another pile of the latest flat screen TVs. See which sells better.
You keep blaming the manufacturers for everything you perceive as bad. Do you imagine that the people are just sheep led by the evil cabals? That is a nice thought but I don't think the reality is that simple. I can't sell what you won't buy and if my competition offers it, you will run to him and buy his stuff.
Here is something I learned talking to a company that published song selections for DJs. Popular songs by genre, subgenre and year, etc. People tend to like music around the time of HS graduation, plus or minus 10 years. Your grandpa was stuck in 1946, you are stuck in 1986 and your grandkids are in 2026. 1946 isn't going to make sense to you any more than 1986 would make sense to your grandpa. I try to live in the present which is easier for me because I have zero nostalgia for the past. I realize they are the "good old days" because we look at them with rose colored glasses. My friend's father used to say that the old days were simpler, better, etc, etc. One day, I reminded him that his son was cured from what was an incurable form of cancer due to medical advancements which weren't present a year before he was diagnosed and he got another 20 plus years of his son.
Only if you want the old stuff to have a few newer things but I prefer to get it all new and not have a mix of old and new.
Truth is, you don't want to hold onto it indefinitely. You wanted the shiny things that come out each year. Don't tell me Wal*Mart sells crap and you would be willing to pay more for better quality. Tell them by buying the higher quality products. Don't tell me you want better in flight service but yet spring for the cheap discount air fare carriers. Don't tell me you want to eat healthy and I see you inhaling 2 Supersized Big Macs. As to replacement costs, have they really gone up? How long ago was it when McDonald's paid $5 an hour? Today, I just saw a banner for $17. I believe someone showed me the calculation that back in the 60s, a Corvette was "cheaper" in terms of sticker price. OTOH, when you consider inflation, it isn't that much different.
You want "Whiz Bang" stuff every couple of years, you want it to last forever. I don't know if that is possible.
I think it will sell to a few people but I don't see people wanting that in general. Make a pile of the old black and white chunky TVs and another pile of the latest flat screen TVs. See which sells better.
You keep blaming the manufacturers for everything you perceive as bad. Do you imagine that the people are just sheep led by the evil cabals? That is a nice thought but I don't think the reality is that simple. I can't sell what you won't buy and if my competition offers it, you will run to him and buy his stuff.
Here is something I learned talking to a company that published song selections for DJs. Popular songs by genre, subgenre and year, etc. People tend to like music around the time of HS graduation, plus or minus 10 years. Your grandpa was stuck in 1946, you are stuck in 1986 and your grandkids are in 2026. 1946 isn't going to make sense to you any more than 1986 would make sense to your grandpa. I try to live in the present which is easier for me because I have zero nostalgia for the past. I realize they are the "good old days" because we look at them with rose colored glasses. My friend's father used to say that the old days were simpler, better, etc, etc. One day, I reminded him that his son was cured from what was an incurable form of cancer due to medical advancements which weren't present a year before he was diagnosed and he got another 20 plus years of his son.
Only if you want the old stuff to have a few newer things but I prefer to get it all new and not have a mix of old and new.
The CAFE standards don't necessarily "force" people to buy cars that they don't want - but it is a government-created market distortion that entices auto makers to "offset" certain models with ones people do not prefer or which they must subsidize ones that cause them to lose money.
On some of the other things, there is a micro vs macro aspect to it - and consumers often exhibit a degree of schizophrenia. As far as having the newest whiz bang stuff, sure - we all would rather have a nice new flat screen TV than an old console set with a tube. But in that case, the flat screen costs much less. With cars, the new features are amazing - but sometimes you reach a point where there's a lot of stuff you don't need or want AND it unnecessarily adds to the repair costs to keep it serviceable when you keep it beyond the warranty period. I find that there is a large and growing movement of people who are seeking out pre-2015 vehicles without a lot of the doodads on them. ( Obviously, Corvettes are in a different category and are far less utilitarian than a "normal" car that people choose for a daily driver.) Nothing is expected to last forever, but it is not unreasonable to expect that a brand new vehicle today should run for at least ten to fifteen years and 250,000 with normal maintenance. A 1990s or early 2000s Accord or Camry might need a minor overhaul at 300,000 miles, but nobody wants to pay three grand to have a new touch screen installed - assuming you could still find one after a decade.
We're getting into the weeds, but I think there would be a sizeable market for a "simpler" vehicle with more of the old school basic controls on it. With the average new car transaction pushing $50,000 today, some of the 'no frills' models costing less than half that would sell like hotcakes. Not everybody needs all the gizmos all the time. Maybe I am just getting old - but my 2004 F-150 has power windows & locks, an automatic overdrive transmission where you can still check the fluid, cruise control, AM/FM/CD, air conditioning and fog lights. I don't need power seats, heated steering wheel, sensors and a big touch screen. Yeah - it's cool that you can get those things on a truck - but if that one thing goes wrong, you're dead in the water and no "independent" mechanic can work on it.
I am not a Luddite or anything and my wife's 2025 Camry & our 2026 Mustang GT are amazing vehicles - but I'd love to shave ten grand off the price and give up some of the goodies. Probably not gonna happen, though. I read yesterday that the average car loan is now 69 months - with some people taking out 84 month loans (that's seven years!) so that they can have a payment which they can afford. It makes me wonder how many people are gonna get a visit from the repo man and then maybe we will see a glut of late model used cars on the market. If we have an economic downturn, it's gonna sting.
FWIW, I am not necessarily "blaming" the manufacturers. They're trying to respond to market demands AND government edicts. They are going to seize the opportunity for generating revenue from subscription-based services. My wife's Toyota is more than a year old now and the car's screen is urging her to sign up for their navigation service and Sirius XM pops up with an invitation to subscribe. Fortunately, we get both of them through apps on our cell phones - but it is maddening. I have heard that some cars even turn off the heated seats, etc., if you don't subscribe to their package for a monthly fee. That's ludicrous!
FWIW, you're spot on about music we like being within + or - ten years of our high school graduation! I am stuck in the period between 1975 and maybe 1995 (graduated in 1983) with most of my playlist. I mostly like classic rock, but have a soft spot for 1980s pop, some heavy metal and a smattering of country thrown in there. I like a lot of stuff - but nothing that is what you would call new.
Oh............at least you don't have to pay extra for your Range AFM device, though. Once you buy, it, you're good to go!
"The good old days weren't always good and today ain't as bad as it seems." -- Billy Joel, 'Keeping The Faith'
Last edited by JK 23112; May 27, 2026 at 08:17 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,502
Likes: 3,302
From: Hartford WI
The CAFE standards don't necessarily "force" people to buy cars that they don't want - but it is a government-created market distortion that entices auto makers to "offset" certain models with ones people do not prefer or which they must subsidize ones that cause them to lose money.
On some of the other things, there is a micro vs macro aspect to it - and consumers often exhibit a degree of schizophrenia. As far as having the newest whiz bang stuff, sure - we all would rather have a nice new flat screen TV than an old console set with a tube. But in that case, the flat screen costs much less. With cars, the new features are amazing - but sometimes you reach a point where there's a lot of stuff you don't need or want AND it unnecessarily adds to the repair costs to keep it serviceable when you keep it beyond the warranty period. I find that there is a large and growing movement of people who are seeking out pre-2015 vehicles without a lot of the doodads on them. ( Obviously, Corvettes are in a different category and are far less utilitarian than a "normal" car that people choose for a daily driver.) Nothing is expected to last forever, but it is not unreasonable to expect that a brand new vehicle today should run for at least ten to fifteen years and 250,000 with normal maintenance. A 1990s or early 2000s Accord or Camry might need a minor overhaul at 300,000 miles, but nobody wants to pay three grand to have a new touch screen installed - assuming you could still find one after a decade.
We're getting into the weeds, but I think there would be a sizeable market for a "simpler" vehicle with more of the old school basic controls on it. With the average new car transaction pushing $50,000 today, some of the 'no frills' models costing less than half that would sell like hotcakes. Not everybody needs all the gizmos all the time. Maybe I am just getting old - but my 2004 F-150 has power windows & locks, an automatic overdrive transmission where you can still check the fluid, cruise control, AM/FM/CD, air conditioning and fog lights. I don't need power seats, heated steering wheel, sensors and a big touch screen. Yeah - it's cool that you can get those things on a truck - but if that one thing goes wrong, you're dead in the water and no "independent" mechanic can work on it.
I am not a Luddite or anything and my wife's 2025 Camry & our 2026 Mustang GT are amazing vehicles - but I'd love to shave ten grand off the price and give up some of the goodies. Probably not gonna happen, though. I read yesterday that the average car loan is now 69 months - with some people taking out 84 month loans (that's seven years!) so that they can have a payment which they can afford. It makes me wonder how many people are gonna get a visit from the repo man and then maybe we will see a glut of late model used cars on the market. If we have an economic downturn, it's gonna sting.
FWIW, I am not necessarily "blaming" the manufacturers. They're trying to respond to market demands AND government edicts. They are going to seize the opportunity for generating revenue from subscription-based services. My wife's Toyota is more than a year old now and the car's screen is urging her to sign up for their navigation service and Sirius XM pops up with an invitation to subscribe. Fortunately, we get both of them through apps on our cell phones - but it is maddening. I have heard that some cars even turn off the heated seats, etc., if you don't subscribe to their package for a monthly fee. That's ludicrous!
FWIW, you're spot on about music we like being within + or - ten years of our high school graduation! I am stuck in the period between 1975 and maybe 1995 (graduated in 1983) with most of my playlist. I mostly like classic rock, but have a soft spot for 1980s pop, some heavy metal and a smattering of country thrown in there. I like a lot of stuff - but nothing that is what you would call new.
Oh............at least you don't have to pay extra for your Range AFM device, though. Once you buy, it, you're good to go!
"The good old days weren't always good and today ain't as bad as it seems." -- Billy Joel, 'Keeping The Faith'
On some of the other things, there is a micro vs macro aspect to it - and consumers often exhibit a degree of schizophrenia. As far as having the newest whiz bang stuff, sure - we all would rather have a nice new flat screen TV than an old console set with a tube. But in that case, the flat screen costs much less. With cars, the new features are amazing - but sometimes you reach a point where there's a lot of stuff you don't need or want AND it unnecessarily adds to the repair costs to keep it serviceable when you keep it beyond the warranty period. I find that there is a large and growing movement of people who are seeking out pre-2015 vehicles without a lot of the doodads on them. ( Obviously, Corvettes are in a different category and are far less utilitarian than a "normal" car that people choose for a daily driver.) Nothing is expected to last forever, but it is not unreasonable to expect that a brand new vehicle today should run for at least ten to fifteen years and 250,000 with normal maintenance. A 1990s or early 2000s Accord or Camry might need a minor overhaul at 300,000 miles, but nobody wants to pay three grand to have a new touch screen installed - assuming you could still find one after a decade.
We're getting into the weeds, but I think there would be a sizeable market for a "simpler" vehicle with more of the old school basic controls on it. With the average new car transaction pushing $50,000 today, some of the 'no frills' models costing less than half that would sell like hotcakes. Not everybody needs all the gizmos all the time. Maybe I am just getting old - but my 2004 F-150 has power windows & locks, an automatic overdrive transmission where you can still check the fluid, cruise control, AM/FM/CD, air conditioning and fog lights. I don't need power seats, heated steering wheel, sensors and a big touch screen. Yeah - it's cool that you can get those things on a truck - but if that one thing goes wrong, you're dead in the water and no "independent" mechanic can work on it.
I am not a Luddite or anything and my wife's 2025 Camry & our 2026 Mustang GT are amazing vehicles - but I'd love to shave ten grand off the price and give up some of the goodies. Probably not gonna happen, though. I read yesterday that the average car loan is now 69 months - with some people taking out 84 month loans (that's seven years!) so that they can have a payment which they can afford. It makes me wonder how many people are gonna get a visit from the repo man and then maybe we will see a glut of late model used cars on the market. If we have an economic downturn, it's gonna sting.
FWIW, I am not necessarily "blaming" the manufacturers. They're trying to respond to market demands AND government edicts. They are going to seize the opportunity for generating revenue from subscription-based services. My wife's Toyota is more than a year old now and the car's screen is urging her to sign up for their navigation service and Sirius XM pops up with an invitation to subscribe. Fortunately, we get both of them through apps on our cell phones - but it is maddening. I have heard that some cars even turn off the heated seats, etc., if you don't subscribe to their package for a monthly fee. That's ludicrous!
FWIW, you're spot on about music we like being within + or - ten years of our high school graduation! I am stuck in the period between 1975 and maybe 1995 (graduated in 1983) with most of my playlist. I mostly like classic rock, but have a soft spot for 1980s pop, some heavy metal and a smattering of country thrown in there. I like a lot of stuff - but nothing that is what you would call new.
Oh............at least you don't have to pay extra for your Range AFM device, though. Once you buy, it, you're good to go!
"The good old days weren't always good and today ain't as bad as it seems." -- Billy Joel, 'Keeping The Faith'
The flat screen TV can't be fixed whereas the tube can be fixed. You seem fixated on the warranty period. Back in the day, didn't you get told that when the car switched to EFI we have 300 components that will break outside of the warranty? While it is going to be true I don't think the reliability is as bad as you think it is. All my creature comforts were considered high risk but the things I broke most were not them.
Maybe but besides work trucks, I would say I haven't seen manufacturers think that. I don't know what you consider an "independent mechanic" but I have had my share of them work on my vehicles. Certainly, things like ignition keys and related stuff might be dealership but so what? You want any guy being able to start the car by just replacing the lock cylinder? I wouldn't.
Then don't buy the option packages. Get as stripped down a version as you can. Problem is what you want will have to be custom made which will increase costs. That is probably why they have packages. I might not want all 5 things in the package but it probably will be easier for the manufacturer to sell it as a package and cheaper too than to "a la carte" 2 of the pieces.
Again, do you really want "a la carte"? It makes manufacturing less streamlined and raises the cost. As to the packages, it's the same as anything. Do I like the package enough or not? I marry my wife and I have to accept the package she comes with. I can't say "I don't want your sister but your brother is cool.". I have to grin and bear it or break up with her.
But is it only limited to music? My point is that it is the mentality. Maybe beyond music, we define that range as "normal" and the more deviation, the worse it is. That makes us unable to be open to new concepts. Kinda why I don't want a doctor of 40 years experience or one who has a diploma where the ink is still wet. One has no experience and one has too much experience with the past.
If you don't kick it out and damage your OBD2 port. I kicked it out twice and didn't want to see if 3rd time was lucky. Yes, I got suckered into that stupid thing. Fortunately, I halved my loss by selling it. It did what it was supposed to do BUT we have no idea if it helped anything and to what extent. AFAIK, best way is to get rid of the cam that needs AFM since GM couldn't design and sell a good one. Beyond that, read the advertisements. It depends on your mind making some leaps. They can't say that it will fix something. It alludes to it
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1,171
From: Keswick, Virginia
And that isn't what you wanted where I can buy what I want but have to pay more for it which becomes taxes?
The flat screen TV can't be fixed whereas the tube can be fixed. You seem fixated on the warranty period. Back in the day, didn't you get told that when the car switched to EFI we have 300 components that will break outside of the warranty? While it is going to be true I don't think the reliability is as bad as you think it is. All my creature comforts were considered high risk but the things I broke most were not them.
Maybe but besides work trucks, I would say I haven't seen manufacturers think that. I don't know what you consider an "independent mechanic" but I have had my share of them work on my vehicles. Certainly, things like ignition keys and related stuff might be dealership but so what? You want any guy being able to start the car by just replacing the lock cylinder? I wouldn't.
Then don't buy the option packages. Get as stripped down a version as you can. Problem is what you want will have to be custom made which will increase costs. That is probably why they have packages. I might not want all 5 things in the package but it probably will be easier for the manufacturer to sell it as a package and cheaper too than to "a la carte" 2 of the pieces.
Again, do you really want "a la carte"? It makes manufacturing less streamlined and raises the cost. As to the packages, it's the same as anything. Do I like the package enough or not? I marry my wife and I have to accept the package she comes with. I can't say "I don't want your sister but your brother is cool.". I have to grin and bear it or break up with her.
But is it only limited to music? My point is that it is the mentality. Maybe beyond music, we define that range as "normal" and the more deviation, the worse it is. That makes us unable to be open to new concepts. Kinda why I don't want a doctor of 40 years experience or one who has a diploma where the ink is still wet. One has no experience and one has too much experience with the past.
If you don't kick it out and damage your OBD2 port. I kicked it out twice and didn't want to see if 3rd time was lucky. Yes, I got suckered into that stupid thing. Fortunately, I halved my loss by selling it. It did what it was supposed to do BUT we have no idea if it helped anything and to what extent. AFAIK, best way is to get rid of the cam that needs AFM since GM couldn't design and sell a good one. Beyond that, read the advertisements. It depends on your mind making some leaps. They can't say that it will fix something. It alludes to it
The flat screen TV can't be fixed whereas the tube can be fixed. You seem fixated on the warranty period. Back in the day, didn't you get told that when the car switched to EFI we have 300 components that will break outside of the warranty? While it is going to be true I don't think the reliability is as bad as you think it is. All my creature comforts were considered high risk but the things I broke most were not them.
Maybe but besides work trucks, I would say I haven't seen manufacturers think that. I don't know what you consider an "independent mechanic" but I have had my share of them work on my vehicles. Certainly, things like ignition keys and related stuff might be dealership but so what? You want any guy being able to start the car by just replacing the lock cylinder? I wouldn't.
Then don't buy the option packages. Get as stripped down a version as you can. Problem is what you want will have to be custom made which will increase costs. That is probably why they have packages. I might not want all 5 things in the package but it probably will be easier for the manufacturer to sell it as a package and cheaper too than to "a la carte" 2 of the pieces.
Again, do you really want "a la carte"? It makes manufacturing less streamlined and raises the cost. As to the packages, it's the same as anything. Do I like the package enough or not? I marry my wife and I have to accept the package she comes with. I can't say "I don't want your sister but your brother is cool.". I have to grin and bear it or break up with her.
But is it only limited to music? My point is that it is the mentality. Maybe beyond music, we define that range as "normal" and the more deviation, the worse it is. That makes us unable to be open to new concepts. Kinda why I don't want a doctor of 40 years experience or one who has a diploma where the ink is still wet. One has no experience and one has too much experience with the past.
If you don't kick it out and damage your OBD2 port. I kicked it out twice and didn't want to see if 3rd time was lucky. Yes, I got suckered into that stupid thing. Fortunately, I halved my loss by selling it. It did what it was supposed to do BUT we have no idea if it helped anything and to what extent. AFAIK, best way is to get rid of the cam that needs AFM since GM couldn't design and sell a good one. Beyond that, read the advertisements. It depends on your mind making some leaps. They can't say that it will fix something. It alludes to it
With televisions today, it is not cost-effective to repair them. You just buy a new one......and they seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper. Cars, on the other hand, keep getting more expensive. There also really are not any stripped down models anymore. Try buying a "work" level Ford XL pickup. That darn thing is better equipped than a Lariat would have been just fifteen years ago. Impossible to get one with a manual transmission nowadays too. When I ordered my Corvette, I certainly did things "a la carte" and still saved money. I do know that it would not be the same for most 'regular' new cars, though.
A friend of mine bought a new Chevy Silverado W/T (work truck) and it has a lot of uplevel stuff in it. Sadly, his transmission went out - under extended warranty - but they kept his truck for two month while awaiting the new tranny to arrive. They gave him a loaded "loaner" with all the bells & whistles on it. It had a turbo four-banger engine, while his has a V6. Allegedly, GM ran out of the transmission that his has (!).
Agree 100 percent on the wife! I have always said that if I could take that one best trait from each woman I have had in my past and combine them all.........it'd be like Weird Science in real life. Think of being able to do a cut and paste. Of course, any of our wives would likely say the same about us. LOL!
That is too bad about the AFM problems. Do you really think it was the camshaft? Could GM solve the issue with a new bumpstick? That still seems like a very costly repair. From what I have heard, they have told people with Silverado trucks to switch to another viscosity of oil. I hope that helps!
Last edited by JK 23112; May 28, 2026 at 09:00 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,502
Likes: 3,302
From: Hartford WI
With televisions today, it is not cost-effective to repair them. You just buy a new one......and they seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper. Cars, on the other hand, keep getting more expensive. There also really are not any stripped down models anymore. Try buying a "work" level Ford XL pickup. That darn thing is better equipped than a Lariat would have been just fifteen years ago. Impossible to get one with a manual transmission nowadays too. When I ordered my Corvette, I certainly did things "a la carte" and still saved money. I do know that it would not be the same for most 'regular' new cars, though.
A friend of mine bought a new Chevy Silverado W/T (work truck) and it has a lot of uplevel stuff in it. Sadly, his transmission went out - under extended warranty - but they kept his truck for two month while awaiting the new tranny to arrive. They gave him a loaded "loaner" with all the bells & whistles on it. It had a turbo four-banger engine, while his has a V6. Allegedly, GM ran out of the transmission that his has (!).
Agree 100 percent on the wife! I have always said that if I could take that one best trait from each woman I have had in my past and combine them all.........it'd be like Weird Science in real life. Think of being able to do a cut and paste. Of course, any of our wives would likely say the same about us. LOL!
That is too bad about the AFM problems. Do you really think it was the camshaft? Could GM solve the issue with a new bumpstick? That still seems like a very costly repair. From what I have heard, they have told people with Silverado trucks to switch to another viscosity of oil. I hope that helps!
A friend of mine bought a new Chevy Silverado W/T (work truck) and it has a lot of uplevel stuff in it. Sadly, his transmission went out - under extended warranty - but they kept his truck for two month while awaiting the new tranny to arrive. They gave him a loaded "loaner" with all the bells & whistles on it. It had a turbo four-banger engine, while his has a V6. Allegedly, GM ran out of the transmission that his has (!).
Agree 100 percent on the wife! I have always said that if I could take that one best trait from each woman I have had in my past and combine them all.........it'd be like Weird Science in real life. Think of being able to do a cut and paste. Of course, any of our wives would likely say the same about us. LOL!
That is too bad about the AFM problems. Do you really think it was the camshaft? Could GM solve the issue with a new bumpstick? That still seems like a very costly repair. From what I have heard, they have told people with Silverado trucks to switch to another viscosity of oil. I hope that helps!
We had a fleet car Buick Encore. Barely 2 years old and an engine and transmission went out. Engine was 6 months backordered.
Not me. I am perfect and she tells me that every so often. Even with my back turned, I can hear her eyes rolling.
AFAIK, it was the AFM lifters. New cam without the AFM lifters and you solve that problem. If this was my forever car, that camshaft would be an ornament in my garage.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1,171
From: Keswick, Virginia
When you say "keeps getting more expensive", how are you determining that? Just from sticker price or did you figure in inflation? Maybe there aren't stripped down models because nobody wants them?
Even after adjusting for inflation, most cars do cost more - although they do indeed have more features & equipment. I think that they don't want to sell "basic" models because they make slightly less profit on them. They'd rather sell you a high-zoot premium trim level with more bells & whistles because they can charge you more for it. If Toyota, Nissan or Mazda offered a small "bare bones" compact pickup for a very low price, they'd probably sell every one of them that they could build. Some of their less costly models are available in Europe, Asia or Central/South America and Africa.
We had a fleet car Buick Encore. Barely 2 years old and an engine and transmission went out. Engine was 6 months backordered.
That's a shame about the Buick Encore. GM quality - in many models - just isn't where it once was. At least they still do a good job with most Corvettes - as it is their flagship vehicle.
Not me. I am perfect and she tells me that every so often. Even with my back turned, I can hear her eyes rolling.
Yeah - I can relate to that. When people asked how I got such a smart wife, I just reply that she has very poor eyesight.
AFAIK, it was the AFM lifters. New cam without the AFM lifters and you solve that problem. If this was my forever car, that camshaft would be an ornament in my garage.
What a shame that they won't do that.............but they'd see it as an unnecessary expenditure.
Even after adjusting for inflation, most cars do cost more - although they do indeed have more features & equipment. I think that they don't want to sell "basic" models because they make slightly less profit on them. They'd rather sell you a high-zoot premium trim level with more bells & whistles because they can charge you more for it. If Toyota, Nissan or Mazda offered a small "bare bones" compact pickup for a very low price, they'd probably sell every one of them that they could build. Some of their less costly models are available in Europe, Asia or Central/South America and Africa.
We had a fleet car Buick Encore. Barely 2 years old and an engine and transmission went out. Engine was 6 months backordered.
That's a shame about the Buick Encore. GM quality - in many models - just isn't where it once was. At least they still do a good job with most Corvettes - as it is their flagship vehicle.
Not me. I am perfect and she tells me that every so often. Even with my back turned, I can hear her eyes rolling.
Yeah - I can relate to that. When people asked how I got such a smart wife, I just reply that she has very poor eyesight.
AFAIK, it was the AFM lifters. New cam without the AFM lifters and you solve that problem. If this was my forever car, that camshaft would be an ornament in my garage.
What a shame that they won't do that.............but they'd see it as an unnecessary expenditure.
Last edited by JK 23112; May 28, 2026 at 09:40 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,502
Likes: 3,302
From: Hartford WI
Even after adjusting for inflation, most cars do cost more - although they do indeed have more features & equipment. I think that they don't want to sell "basic" models because they make slightly less profit on them. They'd rather sell you a high-zoot premium trim level with more bells & whistles because they can charge you more for it. If Toyota, Nissan or Mazda offered a small "bare bones" compact pickup for a very low price, they'd probably sell every one of them that they could build. Some of their less costly models are available in Europe, Asia or Central/South America and Africa.
That's a shame about the Buick Encore. GM quality - in many models - just isn't where it once was. At least they still do a good job with most Corvettes - as it is their flagship vehicle.
What a shame that they won't do that.............but they'd see it as an unnecessary expenditure.
That's a shame about the Buick Encore. GM quality - in many models - just isn't where it once was. At least they still do a good job with most Corvettes - as it is their flagship vehicle.
What a shame that they won't do that.............but they'd see it as an unnecessary expenditure.
Maybe it hasn't been in a long time and it might never be. Flagship or not, it does share parts with other models.
You don't think they are going to retrofit an old has been unless they are forced to, do you? They are catering to the new generation and not the old. That might be a lesson HD should have learned before they patented the "potato" exhaust noise.
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1,171
From: Keswick, Virginia
But, more specifically, does anyone here want them? We wanted junk at Wal*Mart and we got it by buying it, thus signaling to Wal*Mart that they need to switch to that low priced junk. You keep saying that if they did this, they'd be selling them fast. They did it in the past but switched because, IMO, we told them. We keep saying "we want manuals" but yet, 3 in 4 of the C7s ordered weren't. What makes you think that stripped down models are going to be more than lip service?
Maybe it hasn't been in a long time and it might never be. Flagship or not, it does share parts with other models.
You don't think they are going to retrofit an old has been unless they are forced to, do you? They are catering to the new generation and not the old. That might be a lesson HD should have learned before they patented the "potato" exhaust noise.
Maybe it hasn't been in a long time and it might never be. Flagship or not, it does share parts with other models.
You don't think they are going to retrofit an old has been unless they are forced to, do you? They are catering to the new generation and not the old. That might be a lesson HD should have learned before they patented the "potato" exhaust noise.
I don't equate Walmart to junk automatically and still think that there'd be room for 'base' models of sedans & compact pickup trucks. Of course, government regulations put the kibosh on certain models. I don't think that there is an affinity for manual transmissions the way there once was............but enough people would love to have one if they could. Much cheaper to replace a clutch than to replace a CVT or other auto trans.
Yeah, the "flagship" does share some parts with other models. No doubt about that!
Ya really know how to make a guy feel like a dinosaur these days!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,198
Likes: 1,057
From: North Texas
At one point when AFM was new, GM put out a video explaining how it worked. In the video they said that a lot of failures occur durning the transition phase, V8 to V4 and back, due to a miss timing of the locking pins in the lifter. So, if you eliminate this constant back and forth you stand a better chance of not having AFM lifter failure. The video is somewhere in these forums.
Thus I tuned mine out with a Diablo I3 to improve my chances of not having this kind of failure. This is the only 'feature' of the tuner I have used. Better than a Range because it does not 'trick' the ECM to stay out of V4 and it doesn't clear the emmissions ready settings every time you start the engine.
The Diablo I3 is easy to use and you can return the tune back to stock anytime you want.
Thus I tuned mine out with a Diablo I3 to improve my chances of not having this kind of failure. This is the only 'feature' of the tuner I have used. Better than a Range because it does not 'trick' the ECM to stay out of V4 and it doesn't clear the emmissions ready settings every time you start the engine.
The Diablo I3 is easy to use and you can return the tune back to stock anytime you want.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,502
Likes: 3,302
From: Hartford WI
I don't equate Walmart to junk automatically
and still think that there'd be room for 'base' models of sedans & compact pickup trucks. Of course, government regulations put the kibosh on certain models.
I don't think that there is an affinity for manual transmissions the way there once was............but enough people would love to have one if they could. Much cheaper to replace a clutch than to replace a CVT or other auto trans.
Yeah, the "flagship" does share some parts with other models. No doubt about that!
Ya really know how to make a guy feel like a dinosaur these days!
and still think that there'd be room for 'base' models of sedans & compact pickup trucks. Of course, government regulations put the kibosh on certain models.
I don't think that there is an affinity for manual transmissions the way there once was............but enough people would love to have one if they could. Much cheaper to replace a clutch than to replace a CVT or other auto trans.
Yeah, the "flagship" does share some parts with other models. No doubt about that!
Ya really know how to make a guy feel like a dinosaur these days!
In what way does government regulation prevent that? Assuming the people want it enough to make the manufacture petition for the change? Now if you don't have enough sales to get it done, that's on you.
And you think automatics are so unreliable that people would rather have something manual especially for urban driving? My 722.6 lasted 480k with me hammering on it and the ECM program was enhanced. Now if it broke every 50k, I would agree with you that manual is worth it.
All in the name of cost reduction. Kinda like whether you want a Pontiac Firebird or Chevy Camaro in the late 80s.
We are old and if we're being honest, obsolete. Unfortunately we ARE in the twilight of the life cycle at 60.