Range device
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Hartford WI
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
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From: Keswick, Virginia
You don't need it with a C7 equipped with a manual transmission. Just stay out of "ECO" mode and the car will never go into V4 mode.
I had a 2017 Stingray with a manual and the car never went into V4 because I did not drive it in ECO mode. I left it in SPORT mode most of the time. My wife had a 2019 C7 Stingray with the automatic and we did have to buy a Range AFM device for it. That kept the car out of V4 mode permanently.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,430
Likes: 3,282
From: Hartford WI
You don't need it with a C7 equipped with a manual transmission. Just stay out of "ECO" mode and the car will never go into V4 mode.
I had a 2017 Stingray with a manual and the car never went into V4 because I did not drive it in ECO mode. I left it in SPORT mode most of the time. My wife had a 2019 C7 Stingray with the automatic and we did have to buy a Range AFM device for it. That kept the car out of V4 mode permanently.
I had a 2017 Stingray with a manual and the car never went into V4 because I did not drive it in ECO mode. I left it in SPORT mode most of the time. My wife had a 2019 C7 Stingray with the automatic and we did have to buy a Range AFM device for it. That kept the car out of V4 mode permanently.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
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From: Keswick, Virginia
Manuals have also had breakage. I don't know of a good way to fix it short of a cam swap which removes the bad lifters. Most of the other fixes have not been proven to be more than a "Hail Mary", hence the low price which makes the sale dependent on "What have you got to lose?".
When you say that "manuals have breakage," are you referring to the engines still having problems from going into V4 mode? I suppose that is indeed possible - which is all the more reason to keep the car out of V4 mode all the time. Fortunately, it seems as if the AFM problems are far more prevalent in the Silverado truck than in the Corvette. Maybe that is because the trucks usually had the 5.3L and the Corvette uses a 6.2L - but they share a lot of commonality with the design and the AFM system works in the same way. Something else to consider is that those who own a pickup truck most likely drive it every day - versus a Corvette that may only venture out during sunny weekends.
From a mechanical standpoint, I don't see much of an advantage to "cylinder deactivation" in order to save .5 to 1.0 mpg - at the risk of experiencing potential engine damage down the road. But GM is not the only car maker to install such a system. We own a 2021 Mazda CX-30 with a four-cylinder engine at part of the SkyActiv technology involves cylinder deactivation. I believe that the two cylinders in the middle will shut off when the engine is under very light load. That happens infrequently, though.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2014
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From: North Texas
The lifters and their mechanical activation equipment are still prone to failure whether you activate the system or not. As noted, a cam swap is really the only true fix. The Range Device keeps it in V8 mode which eliminates the V4 shaking damage to driveline components. It may help with the actual lifter failure, but I have no reliable information on that.
Last edited by TxLefty; Yesterday at 12:41 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,897
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From: Keswick, Virginia
The lifters and their mechanical activation equipment are still prone to failure whether you activate the system or not. As noted, a cam swap is really the only true fix. The Range Device keeps it in V8 mode which eliminates the V4 shaking damage to driveline components. It may help with the actual lifter failure, but I have no reliable information on that.
So are you saying that there is a still a chance of damage but it might be lessened somewhat by keeping the Corvette OUT of V4 mode?
Maybe I ought to be happy I don't have one anymore. It seems as if automakers are constantly trying to fix things until they break. Why mess with a perfectly reliable small-block Chevy V8 by adding that nonsense? It's as aggravating as the automatic stop-start feature on our 2026 Mustang GT. Every time you start the engine, you have to press a 'disable' button to deactivate it. Otherwise, the engine shuts off when you come to a stop sign or red light. This is not only irritating, but can be kind of dangerous with a stick-shift car. The tiny bit of fuel you might save will be eaten up by having to replace a starter motor prematurely.
Race Director
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From: North Texas
I believe that use of the Range Device lessens the chance of failure of the AFM lifters and associated hardware as well as the transmission and torque tube. I can't prove it, but I use one. My understanding is that the government has recently found that the stop/start feature is not worth the aggravation and possible safety issues it poses for drivers and is no longer mandated. Almost good news for you. We have a vehicle that also has the option to disable the stop/start and I have to push the button every time I drive it. I'm thankful to have the button. I hope the manufacturers will now remove the "feature" since it is no longer mandated.
Last edited by TxLefty; Yesterday at 04:24 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,897
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From: Keswick, Virginia
I believe that use of the Range Device lessens the chance of failure of the AFM lifters and associated hardware as well as the transmission and torque tube. I can't prove it, but I use one. My understanding is that the government has recently found that the stop/start feature is not worth the aggravation and possible safety issues it poses for drivers and is no longer mandated. Almost good news for you. We have a vehicle that also has the option to disable the stop/start and I have to push the button every time I drive it. I'm thankful to have the button. I hope the manufacturers will now remove the "feature" since it is no longer mandated.
There was no need for that damn crap in the first place. Glad that they'll no longer require them...............but we already bought our car and are stuck with it. Grrrrr!! I have just gotten used to pressing the button to deactivate it every time I start the engine.
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Race Director
Joined: Apr 2014
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From: North Texas
Now that it's no longer mandated, I believe I will ask my dealer if they can tune it out. My guess is no, but asking is free.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
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From: Keswick, Virginia
When my first service is due, I'll have to ask about it. We drive the car so little (1,400 miles in four months) - so I won't need an oil change for quite a while. As is the case with the Corvette, you still need get the oil changed every year........even if you drive very few miles.
It would be awesome if they could delete it and not charge me money to do that.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Hartford WI
So are you saying that there is a still a chance of damage but it might be lessened somewhat by keeping the Corvette OUT of V4 mode?
Maybe I ought to be happy I don't have one anymore. It seems as if automakers are constantly trying to fix things until they break. Why mess with a perfectly reliable small-block Chevy V8 by adding that nonsense? It's as aggravating as the automatic stop-start feature on our 2026 Mustang GT. Every time you start the engine, you have to press a 'disable' button to deactivate it. Otherwise, the engine shuts off when you come to a stop sign or red light. This is not only irritating, but can be kind of dangerous with a stick-shift car.
The tiny bit of fuel you might save will be eaten up by having to replace a starter motor prematurely.
Maybe I ought to be happy I don't have one anymore. It seems as if automakers are constantly trying to fix things until they break. Why mess with a perfectly reliable small-block Chevy V8 by adding that nonsense? It's as aggravating as the automatic stop-start feature on our 2026 Mustang GT. Every time you start the engine, you have to press a 'disable' button to deactivate it. Otherwise, the engine shuts off when you come to a stop sign or red light. This is not only irritating, but can be kind of dangerous with a stick-shift car.
The tiny bit of fuel you might save will be eaten up by having to replace a starter motor prematurely.
Why mess with it? Simple. CAFE. Kinda like asking "Why not use asbestos in houses when it has been fine for years?". My guess is they are running out of "low hanging fruit" and we don't want minimum power cars so something has to give.
I think someone mentioned that it wasn't an issue since the starter was redesigned?
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,897
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From: Keswick, Virginia
The system is weak. Whether it is lessened or not by keeping it out of V4 mode has yet to be proven so we don't know if it does and by how much. AFAIK, there is a video that mentions that when it switches, it can break. I'm not sure if that is the only reason it can break or not.
Why mess with it? Simple. CAFE. Kinda like asking "Why not use asbestos in houses when it has been fine for years?". My guess is they are running out of "low hanging fruit" and we don't want minimum power cars so something has to give.
I think someone mentioned that it wasn't an issue since the starter was redesigned?
Why mess with it? Simple. CAFE. Kinda like asking "Why not use asbestos in houses when it has been fine for years?". My guess is they are running out of "low hanging fruit" and we don't want minimum power cars so something has to give.
I think someone mentioned that it wasn't an issue since the starter was redesigned?
CAFE ought not even exist. People should be able to buy whatever kind of vehicle they want - and if it uses more fuel, then so be it. They'll pay more in taxes.........which is what the politicians should want.
As for the starter being redesigned? Meh; I am not so sure I am buying that one. My gut feeling is that they'll design so that it will get through the warranty period and then another couple of years. It's not unlike so many cars with the "lifetime" transmission fluid. It will get most people to 100k miles or so - then when it blows up, your warranty is long gone and you will not think it is "worth it" to fork over $4,000 to $5,000 for a new transmission. They will be counting on you to trade it in on a new one. Planned obsolescence!
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Hartford WI
CAFE ought not even exist. People should be able to buy whatever kind of vehicle they want - and if it uses more fuel, then so be it. They'll pay more in taxes.........which is what the politicians should want.
As for the starter being redesigned? Meh; I am not so sure I am buying that one. My gut feeling is that they'll design so that it will get through the warranty period and then another couple of years. It's not unlike so many cars with the "lifetime" transmission fluid. It will get most people to 100k miles or so - then when it blows up, your warranty is long gone and you will not think it is "worth it" to fork over $4,000 to $5,000 for a new transmission. They will be counting on you to trade it in on a new one. Planned obsolescence!
As for the starter being redesigned? Meh; I am not so sure I am buying that one. My gut feeling is that they'll design so that it will get through the warranty period and then another couple of years. It's not unlike so many cars with the "lifetime" transmission fluid. It will get most people to 100k miles or so - then when it blows up, your warranty is long gone and you will not think it is "worth it" to fork over $4,000 to $5,000 for a new transmission. They will be counting on you to trade it in on a new one. Planned obsolescence!
As opposed to what? Things aren't designed to last forever. We have moved to a disposable society. You ever try to sell a car with a broken transmission? Sure, it will sell but I think you are going to get more for it with a working transmission as opposed to a "You Fix It" situation. Are you dumb enough to give me market value of a working car less the $5000? I doubt it. Either way, they don't have to plan for obsolescence. We already demand it or hadn't you noticed? New features don't get retrofitted onto old units in general.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,897
Likes: 1,162
From: Keswick, Virginia
If life were only so simple that you can do whatever you want and it won't come back to bite someone else.
As opposed to what? Things aren't designed to last forever. We have moved to a disposable society. You ever try to sell a car with a broken transmission? Sure, it will sell but I think you are going to get more for it with a working transmission as opposed to a "You Fix It" situation. Are you dumb enough to give me market value of a working car less the $5000? I doubt it. Either way, they don't have to plan for obsolescence. We already demand it or hadn't you noticed? New features don't get retrofitted onto old units in general.
As opposed to what? Things aren't designed to last forever. We have moved to a disposable society. You ever try to sell a car with a broken transmission? Sure, it will sell but I think you are going to get more for it with a working transmission as opposed to a "You Fix It" situation. Are you dumb enough to give me market value of a working car less the $5000? I doubt it. Either way, they don't have to plan for obsolescence. We already demand it or hadn't you noticed? New features don't get retrofitted onto old units in general.
I would rather have more of a free market with much less force & coercion on the part of the omnipotent state..........which also adds significantly to the cost of almost everything we buy. When we have elected and appointed officials who think that "they know best" & prefer to lord over us, it leads to bigger problems.
But yeah, you are correct that we have morphed into being a 'disposable society' - and it seems to be getting worse. Fewer and fewer things are user serviceable and planned obsolescence is even worse that we can imagine. The truth is, they don't want us to be able to hold onto things indefinitely. When 100,000 miles used to be the life span of most vehicles (odometers only went up to 99,999 miles), the replacement cost was low enough that most folks could afford a new (or newer) car every few years. As vehicles got better, people began hanging onto them a lot longer. It wasn't abnormal for some good sturdy vehicles from the 1990s and early 2000s - such as a Toyota Corolla, Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, etc. - to rack up 300,000 or 400,000 miles on the original drivetrain.
The technology had gotten pretty good. Simple fuel injection systems, a good four-speed automatic or five-speed manual, no turbo & GDI, no CVTs, old school buttons, ***** and dials for the radio & CD player, cruise control, air conditioning/heating system, et al. No touch screens! Plenty of features - but not yet a lot of the super high-tech stuff that adds to the cost of a car and began to harm reliability. Now there are many new vehicles on the market which have a lot of cool devices and high-tech options. However, with everything tied into a touch screen - if that one part fails then your car is useless. I can't help but think that a lot of this newfangled wizardry is designed to fail a few years after the warranty expires.
We have a 2021 Mazda CX-30, a 2025 Toyota Camry hybrid for daily drivers and a 2026 Ford Mustang GT as our weekend car. A primary reason we bought the 'Stang is because it is probably the only vehicle on the market with a V8 engine, rear-wheel-drive and a six-speed manual transmission. Our "spare" vehicle for going to the dump, trips to Home Depot, etc. is a 2004 F-150 pickup truck. Aside from the horrible fuel economy, I often look forward to driving it. It's not "gadgety" + I love the ***** & dials where I don't need to take my eyes off the road to adjust the temperature, change the volume on the radio, etc. Nothing beeps at me when another car is approaching at an intersection. I appreciate the simplicity and it's also fewer things to go wrong.
I sometimes wish that it were possible to buy a "new" 1968 Chevrolet Biscayne - where you could work on the car yourself and not have to pay for a lot of options you don't want. Just give me a 427 big-block, four-speed manual transmission, dual exhaust and a Posi-Trac rear axle. LOL! All kidding aside, just think at how well a basic compact pickup truck would sell today. Think back to the old Toyota, the Nissan Hardbody and the Mazda trucks of the 1980s. I once had a 1985 Ford Ranger - a simple truck with crank windows, AM radio (which I upgraded to a AM/FM stereo cassette with speakers in the doors), rubber flooring instead of carpet, bench seat, long bed and manual transmission. It was 14 years old and had about 120,000 miles on it when a drunk driver fleeing from police crashed into it while it was parked. Totaled.
My wife and I lived in Germany for a few years and it was amazing at how many good, simple vehicles the Europeans can buy but we can't. Nissan sells a compact four-door crew cab pickup truck (looks like the early Frontier) with a diesel engine & stick shift. The Toyota Hilux sells like hotcakes - a cheaper Tacoma that is offered with a diesel & a manual. Volkswagen sells a basic Passat wagon that is often used as a taxi - diesel engine is optional in them. The Volkswagen Polo is smaller than the Golf and costs a lot less (but isn't sold in North America). Fiat sells a tiny pickup that resembles the "kei" trucks from Asia. They're quite economical and useful on the tiny roads in European cities. There is even a pickup made by Mazda that I saw in Spain. Not sure of the model name - but it was really good looking and had a diesel. Very few full-size pickups in Germany (they won't fit in many parking decks), but Mercedes sells one. It looks a lot like a Toyota Tundra until you see the big Mercedes symbol on the grille and the tailgate. ( Diesel fuel is cheaper in Europe because they tax it at a lower rate than gasoline. As of last month, gasoline was over $9 per gallon in Germany and diesel fuel was around $8.50. )
Now that I am over 60, maybe I am getting a bit nostalgic about some things - I often feel like a dinosaur. My grandchildren won't ever have any concept of how things used to be. In 2026 when I talk about 1986, I now think back to my grandparents in 1986 telling me about how life was in 1946. That thought makes me feel ancient!
You're definitely correct that it is almost impossible to retrofit new stuff into old cars (except maybe for a Coyote or LS engine swap).
Last edited by JK 23112; Today at 09:05 AM.
