465 HP versus 730 HP
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 405
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 405
We've seen that even in the Corvette w the LT-5.
Yeah that power house dohc engine was overtaken by the lowly pushrod engine after only a few years. 375 hp and the car was a nose heavy pig in the handling dept. You guys that assume dohc is better also assume foreign cars are better...not.
Yeah that power house dohc engine was overtaken by the lowly pushrod engine after only a few years. 375 hp and the car was a nose heavy pig in the handling dept. You guys that assume dohc is better also assume foreign cars are better...not.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,321
Likes: 71
LT5 CORVETTE ZR1 ENGINE BLOCK CASTING #'S
CASTING # YEAR CID MAINS NOTE
10090511 90 349 2 375 HP
10153558 91-92 349 4 375 HP
10199001 93-95 349 4 405 HP
LT5 Engine
Early model LT5 engines had 2-bolt mains. Later models came with 4-bolt mains. 3.90" Bore, 3.66" Stroke, 11.25:1 CR
The Lt-5 3.90 bore compared to ls-2 which has 4.00 bore It is a good motor but very hard to maintain if not kept up I had one...
CASTING # YEAR CID MAINS NOTE
10090511 90 349 2 375 HP
10153558 91-92 349 4 375 HP
10199001 93-95 349 4 405 HP
LT5 Engine
Early model LT5 engines had 2-bolt mains. Later models came with 4-bolt mains. 3.90" Bore, 3.66" Stroke, 11.25:1 CR
The Lt-5 3.90 bore compared to ls-2 which has 4.00 bore It is a good motor but very hard to maintain if not kept up I had one...
Last edited by RamAir972003; Dec 4, 2013 at 02:19 AM.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 617
Likes: 74
From: San Francisco Bay Area Ca
Completely AGREE!!!...A person only has to look at F1 engines to be "INFORMED" that 300 HP per liter is achieved through DOHCs & 18,000 rpms...simple formula for HP...get as MUCH AIR IN & OUT as FAST as POSSIBLE!!!...Mark
Last edited by sidepipe seeker; Dec 4, 2013 at 02:25 AM.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
From: NY
And F1 engines tend to live for 150k miles of street driving.
Sarcasm
Don't get so hung up on import Hp numbers.
Hp is nothing more than a way express work done by the engine. It's an rpm ratio multiplied with the produced torque. What matters is torque, not hp on a gasoline engine capable of revving 6k and NOTHING comes close to a pushrod V8 in that regard (without power adders). Period.
Sarcasm
Don't get so hung up on import Hp numbers.
Hp is nothing more than a way express work done by the engine. It's an rpm ratio multiplied with the produced torque. What matters is torque, not hp on a gasoline engine capable of revving 6k and NOTHING comes close to a pushrod V8 in that regard (without power adders). Period.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,303
Likes: 714
From: Bartlett IL
And F1 engines tend to live for 150k miles of street driving.
Sarcasm
Don't get so hung up on import Hp numbers.
Hp is nothing more than a way express work done by the engine. It's an rpm ratio multiplied with the produced torque. What matters is torque, not hp on a gasoline engine capable of revving 6k and NOTHING comes close to a pushrod V8 in that regard (without power adders). Period.
Sarcasm
Don't get so hung up on import Hp numbers.
Hp is nothing more than a way express work done by the engine. It's an rpm ratio multiplied with the produced torque. What matters is torque, not hp on a gasoline engine capable of revving 6k and NOTHING comes close to a pushrod V8 in that regard (without power adders). Period.
World Speed and Endurance Records set by the ZR-1:
Class 10 International; FIA Catagory A; Group 11:
100mi's: 175.6 mph
500mi's: 175.5
1000mi's: 174.4
5000km's: 175.7
5000mi's: 173.7
12hr. Distance: 175.5
24hr. Distance: 175.8
World Records Irrespective of Class or Catagory:
5000km's: 175.7
5000mi's: 173.7
24hr. Distance: 175.8
The LSx and now the LT1 motors are marvels of packaging, engineering, lightweight v power but let's call a spade a spade. They're really built for trucks. And it's that "scale" that allows the Corvette to be priced where it is. Build only 20,000 LT1 and see where you're price point goes.
Take the weight of an LT-5 and put it mid-engine as they did w the Corvette Indy, then see what you have.
GM has been so frustrating w a history of giving up on some really great cars precisely at the wrong moment.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 59
The complexity of dohc will eventually make them obsolete unless the electric actuated valves can be made economically feasible. What does car and driver say, what does my teacher say, what does the internet tell me...arguing with morons.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 191
Likes: 2
the fact is no one really cares about the LT5 as an example.
GM set forth to show the world what a pushrod can do. They haven't even released the cam within a cam yet! There is still room to improve on their design. The truck engine comment is an opinion and this "truck engine" hangs with the top cars in the world as a CHEAP base model.
When will you guys leave retarded 90s mentality and accept the pushrod as different and not inferior?
The LS1 fbodys and vettes in '98 were raping DOHC FORDS BMWs and Audis. That motor will run with m3s and S5s even ten years newer. It even gets same or better MPGs than them.
GM set forth to show the world what a pushrod can do. They haven't even released the cam within a cam yet! There is still room to improve on their design. The truck engine comment is an opinion and this "truck engine" hangs with the top cars in the world as a CHEAP base model.
When will you guys leave retarded 90s mentality and accept the pushrod as different and not inferior?
The LS1 fbodys and vettes in '98 were raping DOHC FORDS BMWs and Audis. That motor will run with m3s and S5s even ten years newer. It even gets same or better MPGs than them.
Last edited by genv6.2gm; Dec 4, 2013 at 11:52 AM.
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Advanced
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 71
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From: Bonsall CA.
I believe GM stayed with the pushrod motor primarily due to packaging restraints in able to get that hood low without cutting into occupant interior space.
Ferrari along with Ducati and others measure there engine outputs and vehicle weights using an old and tested method of R - x (renormalized) = P/F
Wherein we find R=reality, x= whatever it takes, P/F = published figures.
I have owned many 14K rpm engines and they work great (especially if you turn the idle up to about 7000 rpm.)
Ferrari along with Ducati and others measure there engine outputs and vehicle weights using an old and tested method of R - x (renormalized) = P/F
Wherein we find R=reality, x= whatever it takes, P/F = published figures.
I have owned many 14K rpm engines and they work great (especially if you turn the idle up to about 7000 rpm.)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 615
From: Springfield TN
Cam-in-block motors generally make more HP per pound of engine weight than OHC motors, and they have smaller exterior dimensions. DOHC, 4 or 5 valve per cylinder motors breathe better and can usually rev higher (pushrods tend to bend at higher rpms), although the state of the art in high-revs today is neither pushrods nor cams but compressed air valve actuation like is used in F1.
The last series of Corvette motors are a marvel of engineering, in my opinion, even if using a different design formula than Italians typically use. HP per liter only makes a difference when you are taxed on displacement (like is done in Europe) or when you need to meet a homologation or racing formula that limits displacement.
The last series of Corvette motors are a marvel of engineering, in my opinion, even if using a different design formula than Italians typically use. HP per liter only makes a difference when you are taxed on displacement (like is done in Europe) or when you need to meet a homologation or racing formula that limits displacement.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 59
HP per liter only makes a difference when you are taxed on displacement (like is done in Europe) or when you need to meet a homologation or racing formula that limits displacement.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 35
From: Kalifornia
Two pages, but not one word about CAFE standards and MPG ratios.
Ferrari is a premium Italian brand that doesn't give a shiat. GM is a Joe Sixpack US consumer car company that happens to also make the US's most iconic sports car. MPG ratios matter to Government Motors.
Ferrari is a premium Italian brand that doesn't give a shiat. GM is a Joe Sixpack US consumer car company that happens to also make the US's most iconic sports car. MPG ratios matter to Government Motors.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 5,497
Likes: 55
From: Jupiter, FL
Most of the Coyote's power is imaginary... or a great marketing lie, whichever you prefer. Take it from a 2014 Mustang owner. Couple that with a useless transmission sourced from China and you basically have a car that should say "Hasbro" on the front.
I've never seen a dyno sheet for an F12, but my guess is that it is extremely peaky with little low end grunt compared to that peak HP number. That being said, it probably still makes over 300 ft-lbs at 2500 RPM, so low is a relative term. It's a monster, but track performance is about more than pure power. It's a about a complete integrated package that the driver is confident pushing to the limit.
I've never seen a dyno sheet for an F12, but my guess is that it is extremely peaky with little low end grunt compared to that peak HP number. That being said, it probably still makes over 300 ft-lbs at 2500 RPM, so low is a relative term. It's a monster, but track performance is about more than pure power. It's a about a complete integrated package that the driver is confident pushing to the limit.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 617
Likes: 74
From: San Francisco Bay Area Ca
And F1 engines tend to live for 150k miles of street driving.
Sarcasm
Don't get so hung up on import Hp numbers.
Hp is nothing more than a way express work done by the engine. It's an rpm ratio multiplied with the produced torque. What matters is torque, not hp on a gasoline engine capable of revving 6k and NOTHING comes close to a pushrod V8 in that regard (without power adders). Period.
Sarcasm
Don't get so hung up on import Hp numbers.
Hp is nothing more than a way express work done by the engine. It's an rpm ratio multiplied with the produced torque. What matters is torque, not hp on a gasoline engine capable of revving 6k and NOTHING comes close to a pushrod V8 in that regard (without power adders). Period.
Last edited by sidepipe seeker; Dec 4, 2013 at 06:51 PM.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 617
Likes: 74
From: San Francisco Bay Area Ca
This statement is LAUGHABLE!!!....How can a system ( OHC/s)( DOHC/s) that REDUCES moving parts, NO LIFTERS, PUSHRODS, ROCKER ARMS, ROCKER ARM SHAFTS, PEDESTALS be MORE COMPLEX????!!! Does Chuck think that ALL OHC motors have electric actuated valves???!!!...Mark
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 191
Likes: 2
You comment about the coyote shows you are mixed up. I agree the trans is rough, but you are mistakenly going by less off idle torque in your judgement of the coyote. My 100% stock Boss 302 has run 11.82 at 117... at a race weight of 3850. Look it up... it means its making MORE then the rated 444hp.
I dont have a boss though. boss' are sick. my '14 transmission has been holding up well so far but i installed a MGW as soon as i bought the car.
I think the 5th gen camaro is geared closely to a mustang.
Last edited by genv6.2gm; Dec 4, 2013 at 06:48 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,493
Likes: 809
From: West coast CA
All rulemakers limit displacement because it is the simplest and most effective method to make power. In F1, they also stipulate the cylinder count and impose a max RPM, among many other things.
Those engines are entirely a product of the rules; if these limitations weren't imposed upon them, no engineer would choose those particular trade-offs.
Banned Scam/Spammer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,083
Likes: 3,869
From: Bonita Springs FL
Why does the Corvette have to be compared with a car that costs 400 grand? That is stupid. Will it ever be possible to compare a Corvette with a European performance offering of equal price?
Pro
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 617
Likes: 74
From: San Francisco Bay Area Ca
F1 engines, like all competition engines, have a maximum displacement stipulated by the rules.
All rulemakers limit displacement because it is the simplest and most effective method to make power. In F1, they also stipulate the cylinder count and impose a max RPM, among many other things.
Those engines are entirely a product of the rules; if these limitations weren't imposed upon them, no engineer would choose those particular trade-offs.
All rulemakers limit displacement because it is the simplest and most effective method to make power. In F1, they also stipulate the cylinder count and impose a max RPM, among many other things.
Those engines are entirely a product of the rules; if these limitations weren't imposed upon them, no engineer would choose those particular trade-offs.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,303
Likes: 714
From: Bartlett IL
the fact is no one really cares about the LT5 as an example.
GM set forth to show the world what a pushrod can do. They haven't even released the cam within a cam yet! There is still room to improve on their design. The truck engine comment is an opinion and this "truck engine" hangs with the top cars in the world as a CHEAP base model.
When will you guys leave retarded 90s mentality and accept the pushrod as different and not inferior?
The LS1 fbodys and vettes in '98 were raping DOHC FORDS BMWs and Audis. That motor will run with m3s and S5s even ten years newer. It even gets same or better MPGs than them.
GM set forth to show the world what a pushrod can do. They haven't even released the cam within a cam yet! There is still room to improve on their design. The truck engine comment is an opinion and this "truck engine" hangs with the top cars in the world as a CHEAP base model.
When will you guys leave retarded 90s mentality and accept the pushrod as different and not inferior?
The LS1 fbodys and vettes in '98 were raping DOHC FORDS BMWs and Audis. That motor will run with m3s and S5s even ten years newer. It even gets same or better MPGs than them.
Oh wait! What's in the lane next to that C6? All motor.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...4/MVI_0115.MOV.
