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You don't even know what you're arguing about...the essence of which is obviously over your head. Don't look now, but bong water is dribbling out of your bedazzled glass slipper.
I know exactly what I'm arguing about, I am guilty of arguing with an unarmed man as you haven't presented any technical points at all. Your posts only reveal you need to fill out a hurt feelings report...once you get unstuck from your quagmire. Good luck and enjoy your M7!
I have a C7 M7 and will be ordering/purchasing a Z06 next year. (came out of a 2014 GT500 and I miss the HP). I was set on the M7 until I saw the demand for the auto. I am second guessing my decision and was wondering what the reasoning is behind the auto demand. I like the manual but have to admit I hate it in traffic, so much that I will take the DD at certain times. Please chime in and help me make a educated decision. My car will be a fare weather use DD, probably about 5000 miles per year with no track time.
Eric
Milner: "Super fast shifts".....guess that answers the question.
I have seen them referenced as automated manuals or semi automatic transmissions which is not 100% accurate to its operation. I disagree about the 8L90 operating like a DCT, the 8L90 requires brakes and clutches for operation. The DCT actually shares more with a manual, even the Porsche PDK and their 7 speed manual shares 1/3 of the parts. Here is a chart of the 8L90 shifts.
Thanks for sharing the chart with the clutch on/off sequences as it'll help prove my point. First, read my post more carefully:
"You need to get a book about the details of the 8L90 and DCTs, they do shift gears the same exact way. The 8L90 has one clutch releasing and one clutch applying on each shift just like the DCT, that's why it's called clutch to clutch architecture."
While they do operate the same way, I never said they are exactly the same as far as parts are concerned. I specifically stated the "way" they shift is the same in that they both share a "clutch to clutch" architecture". Now look at your chart and you'll see for every shift the 8L90 makes, there is exactly one clutch releasing and exactly one clutch applying. (Don't get hung up on the band clutches being referred to as "brakes", it's a matter of semantics.) The fact it has five clutches doesn't change the architecture of one clutch handing off the power to another clutch on each shift...just like a DCT. That's why the 8L90 shift speeds can equal a DCT.
While the PDK does share some parts with the M7 transmission in the Porsche, their operation is worlds apart. It should actually be stated the PDK transaxle shares 1/3 of the parts with the M7 transaxle since they're including the differential/ring and pinion as well as the output shaft which is technically the pinion gear. If you isolate it to the transmission components only, it's probably closer to 1/4 of the parts or less. However it's counted, kudos to Porsche for maintaining parts interchangeability...a trait I've learned to appreciate over the years of owning GM products. Once again, thanks for sharing the chart with us.
This does not look identical to DCT's, since DCT's do not have brake clutches.
In terms of DCT's being called Automated Manual Transmissions (AMT's), there are hundreds of such articles. Here is one of the earlier ones from 2003. I will not post hundreds of such links, as easy searches on Google will pull up all kinds of articles and websites.
You've ordered a TRACK FOCUSED car and boast about fast shifts of the A8, but continually bemoan the Z07's ride quality (without any personal experience) as being stiff and too harsh for street driving. Why did you order a Z06? Wouldn't a Stingray, maybe a Z51 at that have been a better choice?
You want the fastest track focused car on the planet, but want it to ride like a luxury sedan? Moreover, if speed is so vitally important that only the A8 could suffice for you, then why not take the car to the next level and buy the Z07 with the stickier tires, which will produce more down force and quicker lap times for your track car?
You've ordered a TRACK FOCUSED car and boast about fast shifts of the A8, but continually bemoan the Z07's ride quality (without any personal experience) as being stiff and too harshly for street driving. Why did you order a Z06? Wouldn't a Stingray, maybe a Z51 at that have been a better choice?
You want the fastest track focused car on the planet, but want it to ride like a luxury sedan? Moreover, if speed is so vitally important that only the A8 could suffice for you, then why not take the car to the next level and buy the Z07 with the stickier tires, which will produce more down force and quicker lap times for your track car?
It's about the A8 as a quality transmission that shifts quickly according to Milner....not about fast speeds of the car.
That is why I am going with the A8 in the corvette of my choice..the Z06.
I had a Z06 before and enjoyed the car and going with the Z06 again.
Guess I will be in the majority of Z06 owners that don't track the car...like you. I personally don't care for a ride that is any stiffer than the base car, so feel the extra firmness in the ride due to the Z07 option is unecessary unless one plans to track the car. That why the option exists.
Not only is the Z07 option unecessary for a street only car it is actually detrimental to ride quality and tire longevity.
It's about the A8 as a quality transmission that shifts quickly according to Milner....not about fast speeds of the car.
That is why I am going with the A8 in the corvette of my choice..the Z06.
I had a Z06 before and enjoyed the car and going with the Z06 again.
Guess I will be in the majority of Z06 owners that don't track the car...like you. I personally don't care for a ride that is any stiffer than the base car, so feel the extra firmness in the ride due to the Z07 option is unecessary unless one plans to track the car. That why the option exists.
Got it. Not trying to break your *****. Just curious.
PS - I'm quite interested to see your car after you "finish" it. I so wanted black, but because I don't have time and suck at properly detailing cars, I elected to go VY.
Got it. Not trying to break your *****. Just curious.
PS - I'm quite interested to see your car after you "finish" it. I so wanted black, but because I don't have time and suck at properly detailing cars, I elected to go VY.
I never cared for yellow on a car but on the Z06 it really looks nice. I know you will be very happy.
Best
Also I happen to live in an area with mountainous terrain. Nothing like a Z06 to power climb the hills and take the turns with ease.
Don't be fooled, the base Z06 will not ride like that Lexus sedan. It has a firm ride and is entirely a street legal race car....perfect!
Thanks for sharing the chart with the clutch on/off sequences as it'll help prove my point. First, read my post more carefully:
"You need to get a book about the details of the 8L90 and DCTs, they do shift gears the same exact way. The 8L90 has one clutch releasing and one clutch applying on each shift just like the DCT, that's why it's called clutch to clutch architecture."
While they do operate the same way, I never said they are exactly the same as far as parts are concerned. I specifically stated the "way" they shift is the same in that they both share a "clutch to clutch" architecture". Now look at your chart and you'll see for every shift the 8L90 makes, there is exactly one clutch releasing and exactly one clutch applying. (Don't get hung up on the band clutches being referred to as "brakes", it's a matter of semantics.) The fact it has five clutches doesn't change the architecture of one clutch handing off the power to another clutch on each shift...just like a DCT. That's why the 8L90 shift speeds can equal a DCT.
While the PDK does share some parts with the M7 transmission in the Porsche, their operation is worlds apart. It should actually be stated the PDK transaxle shares 1/3 of the parts with the M7 transaxle since they're including the differential/ring and pinion as well as the output shaft which is technically the pinion gear. If you isolate it to the transmission components only, it's probably closer to 1/4 of the parts or less. However it's counted, kudos to Porsche for maintaining parts interchangeability...a trait I've learned to appreciate over the years of owning GM products. Once again, thanks for sharing the chart with us.
The 8L90 is much closer in operation to the ZF 8-speed box than a DCT. In addition, if you look at the chart above, it is really 3 clutches that are working. For example, in 1st Gear, both the A and the B clutch (brake) are locking the sun gear and the ring gear and Clutch C ties in the input shaft with the sun gear. The 8L90 has a planetary gear set, while the DCT's do not use planetary gear sets and torque converters. They use layshafts, output shafts, clutches and selector forks, just like a manual uses.
The 8L90 is not that much different in terms of core operation than many of the other modern automatics, and they do not look anything like a DCT. I am not sure of any transmission expert who would agree that they operate the same.
Again, not saying the 8L90 is inferior or better than an M7 or a DCT. It just operates differently. Also, most modern DCT's if they have already pre-selected the gear will operate shifts in 8ms or less. Not sure if the 8L90 is going to be that quick or not.
From: I speak the truth. Harsh but accurate. The Woodlands Texas
St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Originally Posted by dgszweda
Resale will probably go to the M7. If you look at high performance cars that had low production numbers for their manual version cars, the manual cars always have better resale. Two that quickly come to mind are the previous gen GT3's and the Ferrari F430. Both are highly sought after.
There is nothing about the Corvette that has ANYTHING to do with low production numbers. Anyone who buys a C7 for future resale / investment is a fool.
The 8L90 is much closer in operation to the ZF 8-speed box than a DCT. In addition, if you look at the chart above, it is really 3 clutches that are working. For example, in 1st Gear, both the A and the B clutch (brake) are locking the sun gear and the ring gear and Clutch C ties in the input shaft with the sun gear. The 8L90 has a planetary gear set, while the DCT's do not use planetary gear sets and torque converters. They use layshafts, output shafts, clutches and selector forks, just like a manual uses.
The 8L90 is not that much different in terms of core operation than many of the other modern automatics, and they do not look anything like a DCT. I am not sure of any transmission expert who would agree that they operate the same.
Again, not saying the 8L90 is inferior or better than an M7 or a DCT. It just operates differently. Also, most modern DCT's if they have already pre-selected the gear will operate shifts in 8ms or less. Not sure if the 8L90 is going to be that quick or not.
It's almost like you didn't even read my post...
Yes, there are always three clutches engaged for each gear but we are talking about the shifts. I'm going to repeat/quote exactly what I said the last time: "The fact it has five clutches doesn't change the architecture of one clutch handing off the power to another clutch on each shift...just like a DCT." If you don't get it this time, you simply have a comprehension problem, I won't waste more time trying to fix that. I also won't remind you again I never said the 8L90 looked exactly like a DCT or has the same parts, I have no idea where you got that notion.
Very few DCTs shift in 8 ms or less, not most. The 8L90 has been proven to shift faster than the Porsche PDK and there is no reason why the 8L90 can't shift as fast/faster than any other DCT, the hydraulics are the same concept. In that regard, the DCT is more like an automatic from the '60s but the 8L90 has the benefit of modern technology and a torque converter with full power lockup capability.
Designer Imagines A Corvette That Looks More Like a Corvette Than the Corvette
Slideshow: A Jaguar designer's personal project imagines what a modern front-engined Corvette might look like if Chevrolet revisited the golden age of the Stingray.
