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Well, I am not trying to disrespect anyone, but there is a problem with this part of the statement and that is you cannot turn off ABS, eLSD, EPS, or MR.
Originally Posted by Cercone
Come on only the Zo6 fish tails like this... Now I have always unless it's wet out turned Off all the electrical so called safety features and learned to drive fast cars with skill. My 2cents
Point is, maybe some of the control problems could be attributed to the things you can't turn off. The one that worries me is eLSD since mine is randomly malfunctioning.
Mine stays straight when breaking loose. My foot is trained to lift when I start to get much of any wheel spin.
That is the recipe to crash staying on the gas too long after you have lost traction. Got to be real careful standing on the gas with well over 700hp under the hood and two wheel drive. I always squeeze the gas to get what I need then
get off quick if it breaks loose.
Well, I am not trying to disrespect anyone, but there is a problem with this part of the statement and that is you cannot turn of ABS, eLSD, EPS, or MR.
Point is, maybe some of the control problems could be attributed to the things you can't turn off. The one that worries me is eLSD since mine is randomly malfunctioning.
Well if it isn't working then one tire won't spin and the car will have lateral traction no matter how hard you spin the other tire. It it is working then you can spin both tires and once you get above about 17% tire slippage on the pavement the grip level falls off and you have two sliding boards for the rear tires. That is when the rear will slide back and forth depending on changes in the pavement surface and the crown of the road. If you are on the right side of the crown the rear will go right and if you are on the left side of the crown the rear will go to the left just due to the force of gravity pulling it down hill.
I the driver is counter steering into the skid when it first starts and then realizes they were too late with the counter and then lifts off the throttle all of a sudden the rear wheels slow their spin rate gain some traction and all of a sudden there is too much steering correction put into the steering wheel and the car snap steers in that direction. Of course there are some people who don't understand what steer into the skid means thus turn the steering the wrong way and end up in the weeds even faster.
Well if it isn't working then one tire won't spin and the car will have lateral traction no matter how hard you spin the other tire. It it is working then you can spin both tires and once you get above about 17% tire slippage on the pavement the grip level falls off and you have two sliding boards for the rear tires. That is when the rear will slide back and forth depending on changes in the pavement surface and the crown of the road. If you are on the right side of the crown the rear will go right and if you are on the left side of the crown the rear will go to the left just due to the force of gravity pulling it down hill.
I the driver is counter steering into the skid when it first starts and then realizes they were too late with the counter and then lifts off the throttle all of a sudden the rear wheels slow their spin rate gain some traction and all of a sudden there is too much steering correction put into the steering wheel and the car snap steers in that direction. Of course there are some people who don't understand what steer into the skid means thus turn the steering the wrong way and end up in the weeds even faster.
Bill
Bill, I don't know you so I am trying to be respectful and will simply say that you are ignorant (dictionary definition). I had a car with the problem and now I have a car that doesn't have the problem....SAME DAMN CAR!
1. Factory alignment was most of it
2. Run flat tires were more of it.
3. DSC didn't hurt either
My car is very safe and predictable now with 811rwhp and it was very scary, dangerous and unpredictable with stock power and it is the same blower, same motor, same car with a change of alignment, change to non Run flat tires, addition of DSC Controller.
Bill, I don't know you so I am trying to be respectful and will simply say that you are ignorant (dictionary definition). I had a car with the problem and now I have a car that doesn't have the problem....SAME DAMN CAR!
1. Factory alignment was most of it
2. Run flat tires were more of it.
3. DSC didn't hurt either
My car is very safe and predictable now with 811rwhp and it was very scary, dangerous and unpredictable with stock power and it is the same blower, same motor, same car with a change of alignment, change to non Run flat tires, addition of DSC Controller.
Run flat tires have nothing to do with it. Spinning of the tires has everything to do with it. Have never found my Z07 to be scary, non predictable or getting a snap steer when accelerating from a start. I even posted videos of my launching the car 8 different times at an autocross last year. Didn't have an issue even when I was launching when it was raining. If you don't know an autocross launch is very similar to a drag strip launch other than you can wait until you want to start once given the green light/flag. 8 times of hard acceleration leaving two nice streaks of rubber for about 40 ft before the tires gained enough traction to really put the power down although they did spin pretty much through low gear. When I was coming off of corners I was progressing to full throttle and could feel the tires slightly slipping all the way up to red line and the car went where I steered it.
It is all about control of the right foot and controlling how much rear wheel slip you have not how much power you have. When I was doing that a dealership had done the track alignment without setting rear caster. I found later on when I got the tools that left rear caster was +0.4 degrees and the right rear caster was -0.3 degrees. Supposedly the worst possible condition but the car ran straight even with that.
Have I been caught out and spun the car when trying to accelerate a Corvette? Yes, because I was pushing too hard trying to dump too much throttle in when the tires didn't have enough grip just ask the people who went on spinning rides with me in my C5Z while running an autocross course and trying to get fastest time of day ( I always seem to turn better times with a couple hundred pounds sitting in the passenger seat). The thing is I don't blame the spins on the car I blame them on the nut behind the wheel who tried to do more than the available grip could provide.
If I could have driven your car before you made the changes I bet I wouldn't have had a problem and if you had driven my car you would have had the same problem. I am far from being an expert driver but I do know how to use the right foot due to a lot of practice over the last 59 years.
Run flat tires have nothing to do with it. Spinning of the tires has everything to do with it. Have never found my Z07 to be scary, non predictable or getting a snap steer when accelerating from a start. I even posted videos of my launching the car 8 different times at an autocross last year. Didn't have an issue even when I was launching when it was raining. If you don't know an autocross launch is very similar to a drag strip launch other than you can wait until you want to start once given the green light/flag. 8 times of hard acceleration leaving two nice streaks of rubber for about 40 ft before the tires gained enough traction to really put the power down although they did spin pretty much through low gear. When I was coming off of corners I was progressing to full throttle and could feel the tires slightly slipping all the way up to red line and the car went where I steered it.
It is all about control of the right foot and controlling how much rear wheel slip you have not how much power you have. When I was doing that a dealership had done the track alignment without setting rear caster. I found later on when I got the tools that left rear caster was +0.4 degrees and the right rear caster was -0.3 degrees. Supposedly the worst possible condition but the car ran straight even with that.
Have I been caught out and spun the car when trying to accelerate a Corvette? Yes, because I was pushing too hard trying to dump too much throttle in when the tires didn't have enough grip just ask the people who went on spinning rides with me in my C5Z while running an autocross course and trying to get fastest time of day ( I always seem to turn better times with a couple hundred pounds sitting in the passenger seat). The thing is I don't blame the spins on the car I blame them on the nut behind the wheel who tried to do more than the available grip could provide.
If I could have driven your car before you made the changes I bet I wouldn't have had a problem and if you had driven my car you would have had the same problem. I am far from being an expert driver but I do know how to use the right foot due to a lot of practice over the last 59 years.
The Video of the Red Corvette going off the road to the right has made the big time. It is in a video called Exotic Car Crash Compilations, Pt 1 on You Tube. It is at 8:56 of the 9:12 min video.
I ordered and took delivery of 2 new Z06's in early January 2018. I have been driving them slowly for their 500 mile break-in period. My wife's car is an automatic, mine is a stick. I'm 54 years old, and have had Lamborghini's, ZR-1 Corvettes, and driven highly modified cars my entire life. I just got done with my wife's 500 mile break in, had the oil changed, and finally hit the throttle on her auto Z06. What I got was something I've never experienced in any of my sports cars .....EVER. The rear end swung out violently towards the left in 2nd gear with about 1/2 throttle, just mildly engaging the supercharger for the first time. I let off the gas and the car recovered, no problem. I then repeated the situation 2 more times, and both of them had the same results, rear end pushed HARD to the left, car swinging right.
I used to look at all the "idiots" on Youtube wrecking their C7 Z06's and think how can they be such bad drivers? Well, after experiencing the violent ***-swing for myself, I have to say their is definitely something wrong with the car. I don't know what it is, and haven't had a chance yet to drive in other modes, with and without traction control on, and in warmer weather (it was about 60 degrees on the day this happened to me). Breaking traction and have the rear end fishtailing, have done it thousands of times, mostly on purpose, but never had something like this happen. It feels as if someone has attached a cable to the left rear end side of the car and suddenly "pulled" the rear end to the left. I read on this thread that some people are saying it's just because their is so much torque and horsepower, but I've driven supercharged cars with over 900 horsepower, and this just doesn't happen. Sure, fishtailing, rear end loose...all very normal but NOT this pulling. Something else is at work here, and it is dangerous.
While a lot of the YouTube drivers may very well be inexperienced in driving high horsepower cars, I don't believe the fault lies with just the driver in some of these cases, the car is definitely experiencing some sort of problem enabling some of these accidents to take place.
I'm going to wait until the weather warms up and then test the car out in a large parking lot to see if the pull happens in all modes, and with/without traction control on. My 69 Stingray has a Lingenfelter 420ci small block Chevy Bowtie racing engine in it, 620HP with no traction control (obviously) and I can spin the tires in all 5 gears, but the car never pulls one way or the other, just a nice smooth fishtail until you let of the throttle.
To be continued once it warms up a bit more in Michigan... And test out my manual Z06 once I get the 500 miles on it.
While a lot of the YouTube drivers may very well be inexperienced in driving high horsepower cars, I don't believe the fault lies with just the driver in some of these cases, the car is definitely experiencing some sort of problem enabling some of these accident to take place.
Yet you give this same car, no rear alignment, no fancy tires, no changes, no improvements, to me, and what happens? Nothing.
I haven't had an accident or ticket since 1986, which is 32 years. Somehow this horribly dangerous vehicle, when placed in my hands, performs flawlessly. Goes around the track nicely, comes out of turns nicely, turns in nicely, no problems.
Yet put it in the hands of someone young and stupid or inexperienced and now the car is at fault?
Check your tire pressure and get a good alignment. If you are running Cup 2 tires, they need heat to obtain grip; otherwise they will spin.
I was instructing at VIR last weekend w/NASA & I had no such symptoms.
The 'issue' you describe isn't limited to C7's either. The internet is littered with videos of idiots mashing the throttle & fish-tailing, then wrecking.
I love the Mustang videos leaving their cars & coffee events.
Anyone up for a blast through the uphill esses at speed?
From my experience , tires MUST be warm to hot, as well as the weather being warm. Second, you need to get your alignment done including the rear settings which takes a special tool that some dealer may not have or may not even know that setting exists . I'm sure someone will chime in with the specs. Fortunately for me the settings are correct and I only experience that fish-tailing when it is cool out. Warm to hot days are no problem.
if you are not road racing you need to get a rear end alighnment and shim the top wishbone to get 0 to a little postive camber,these cars from the factory have alot of negative camber and only and inch or 2 of the inner tire when squatting on acceleration is hitting the ground you can double your traction with this type of alighnment.i have 780 rwhp on pilot sports and can go full throttle in second gear [manual]on a hot day on the street it will make a world of diffarance in the car and your tires will last alot longer.
Definitely check the alignment on both the cars with an emphasis on setting the rear caster at the positive side of the allowed range. Range is -0.8 to +0.8 deg. You should be at +0.5 to+0.8. And you are correct nobodies alignment rack will measure adjustable rear caster, but it is critical on the Z06. So you need to make sure the alignment shop has the angle gauge to measure it manually before and after alignment.
Yet you give this same car, no rear alignment, no fancy tires, no changes, no improvements, to me, and what happens? Nothing.
I haven't had an accident or ticket since 1986, which is 32 years. Somehow this horribly dangerous vehicle, when placed in my hands, performs flawlessly. Goes around the track nicely, comes out of turns nicely, turns in nicely, no problems.
Yet put it in the hands of someone young and stupid or inexperienced and now the car is at fault?
I don't buy it.
What a TOOL. Your posts never have any redeeming value. Hard to comprehend how you get enjoyment out of spending so much time spewing your nonsense. It's really getting old. I sort of feel sorry for you as you are just so miserable.
The OP describes a problem many experienced drivers experience in the C7Z and yet you constantly challenge their experience.
Did you ever consider letting a real driver take you for a ride in your car to demonstrate what experienced, real drivers have been subjected. If for no other reason a real driver could demonstrate to you what the car is capable when driven to it's potential.
You are really getting tiresome. Get a life. Your soon to be posted response won't be seen by me as you've finally earned the same honor of "IGNORE" like your "brother", John Glenn...
What is important in this 20 page thread is that there is not a design flaw in the C7Z06 that causes some kind of magic "unintended acceleration to the right." It is always one of two things. From a mechanical standpoint it is most likely a poor alignment job from the factory. From a driver standpoint it also could be driver error. Some don't like to admit the latter is at all possible, but if your alignment has been checked then the latter needs to be considered. The vast majority of owners do not experience this "problem." I do suppose that it could be some flaw in the particular cars eLSD but so far nobody has diagnosed that as a problem that needs addressing.
What is important in this 20 page thread is that there is not a design flaw in the C7Z06 that causes some kind of magic "unintended acceleration to the right." It is always one of two things. From a mechanical standpoint it is most likely a poor alignment job from the factory. From a driver standpoint it also could be driver error. Some don't like to admit the latter is at all possible, but if your alignment has been checked then the latter needs to be considered. The vast majority of owners do not experience this "problem." I do suppose that it could be some flaw in the particular cars eLSD but so far nobody has diagnosed that as a problem that needs addressing.
Tell us what a driver can be doing when holding the steering wheel straight and flooring it that can cause the rear end to fly sideways... steering into the skid is irrelevant - we're simply discussing why the car is apparently incapable of going straight whilst the tires are spinning.
What a TOOL. Your posts never have any redeeming value. Hard to comprehend how you get enjoyment out of spending so much time spewing your nonsense. It's really getting old. I sort of feel sorry for you as you are just so miserable.
The OP describes a problem many experienced drivers experience in the C7Z and yet you constantly challenge their experience.
Did you ever consider letting a real driver take you for a ride in your car to demonstrate what experienced, real drivers have been subjected. If for no other reason a real driver could demonstrate to you what the car is capable when driven to it's potential.
You are really getting tiresome. Get a life. Your soon to be posted response won't be seen by me as you've finally earned the same honor of "IGNORE" like your "brother", John Glenn...
I like the fantasy you have where you have me on Ignore. You know and I know that you could never do it. You're sitting at home right now waiting for my response, probably hitting F5 every couple of minutes.
08-09-2017, 04:58 PM
