Epic wreck, "racecar driver" from Pa in Dec on the bald Cup2's? Now ya did it!
12-05-2017, 06:33 PM
#21
Race Director
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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12-05-2017, 07:12 PM
#22
Drifting
I hope he's a member and has PDR lol
But yea... this is exactly why I swapped my Sport cup 2 for supersports the day I got the car. Even on the supersports I baby the crap out of it if it's under 60 degrees out.
But yea... this is exactly why I swapped my Sport cup 2 for supersports the day I got the car. Even on the supersports I baby the crap out of it if it's under 60 degrees out.
12-05-2017, 07:48 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
12-05-2017, 07:51 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
12-05-2017, 08:26 PM
#25
I get a laugh when guys want to drive these beasts in the winter.
12-05-2017, 08:27 PM
#26
they come bald from the factory.
Surprised insurance will pay for these accidents. Bald Cup2's, Dec surface temps in Pa (this is a WV border area)....just cause the sun is shinin doesn't make it all good.
12-05-2017, 08:47 PM
#27
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
I don't think you have to be "way outside the limits" of the car, the tires, or anything else. Just a tad over, lose control, don't know what to do, or what you do won't save you anyway depending on amount of "real estate" to do what's needed. Doesn't take a lot to go past all the things to save you including your tires. And those tires typically come new with a pretty smooth surface, ideal for some track conditions. But streets? hmmmm.....
12-05-2017, 08:50 PM
#28
12-05-2017, 09:06 PM
#29
Drifting
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My last PB at Watkins Glen was on rear tires that looked close to those. Sure looks to me like the outside of the tire is rounded off like a track tire. Those Cup2's stick like glue until the cords, on my car anyways at proper temps. My right sided thinking blames the guys right foot 
Blessed he walk away, tells the integrity of these VERY well built cars.
Blessed he walk away, tells the integrity of these VERY well built cars.
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12-05-2017, 09:16 PM
#30
Team Owner
12-05-2017, 09:29 PM
#31
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First, you don't know what caused the accident.
Second, Bald tires aren't an issue on dry pavement as they have more surface contacting the pavement (ever hear of slicks). Slicks or bald tires can be a problem in heavy rain but in light rain there may not be much of a problem.
Third, a lot of people think things like this happen because a driver jumps on the throttle and spins the tires when it is more probable the driver actually took his foot off the gas got into a trailing throttle oversteer situation and didn't have a clue on how to regain control. There are a lot of accidents like this all over the country involving many brands of cars and most of them are due to the driver lifting at the wrong time. Any time you see a set of skid marks curving off into the inside of a turn you can be fairly certain the driver thought they were going too fast for the turn, panic'd and took their foot off the throttle too abruptly.
Bill
Second, Bald tires aren't an issue on dry pavement as they have more surface contacting the pavement (ever hear of slicks). Slicks or bald tires can be a problem in heavy rain but in light rain there may not be much of a problem.
Third, a lot of people think things like this happen because a driver jumps on the throttle and spins the tires when it is more probable the driver actually took his foot off the gas got into a trailing throttle oversteer situation and didn't have a clue on how to regain control. There are a lot of accidents like this all over the country involving many brands of cars and most of them are due to the driver lifting at the wrong time. Any time you see a set of skid marks curving off into the inside of a turn you can be fairly certain the driver thought they were going too fast for the turn, panic'd and took their foot off the throttle too abruptly.
Bill
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12-05-2017, 09:33 PM
#32
This would be the case except the OEMs put several nannies on the car to preclude this situation even with bald or cold tires.
And GM offers discounts to all original owners to an advance driving school to "train" owners to deal with the cars dynamics and demonstrate the cars capabilities.
Keep in mind:
1. The car takes into account the tire temps and dials back torque based on predicted traction for the OEM tires at that temp.
2. The stability control (yaw control) system has control over individual wheel braking to keep the car pointed in the direction the driver points the wheel.
3. Traction Control has control over the throttle and the brakes to eliminate wheel slip under acceleration when the available traction is limited or lost.
4. It takes a deliberate effort to override these protections.
I wasn't there but the conditions that allow this to happen on the street could only occur if the driver disabled some if not all of the nannies or was way outside the limit of safe speeds on public roads. This is of course assuming this is a one vehicle accident and the driver wasn't forced off the road or distracted or a mechanical component broke or some outside cause of that nature.
This is precisely why the nannies have names like "traction control" "Stability control" "Performance Traction Management" and selections like Touring vs "TRACK". Hints to any reasonable person.
Its very hard to get to the point where the car doesn't save itself or a dumb driver.... unless the driver is just dumb enough to ignore all those warning names (mentioned above) when disabling nannies and the yellow Corvette caution icon with the skid marks behind it on the dash. Or the warnings that come up in the DIC.
I am the last one to criticize anyone for pushing the envelope and losing a car. Happens to the best of us. But to say its the manufactures fault is a bit of a stretch. Its like folks with pit bulls saying I didn't know he would eat the baby? Yea ok.
And GM offers discounts to all original owners to an advance driving school to "train" owners to deal with the cars dynamics and demonstrate the cars capabilities.
Keep in mind:
1. The car takes into account the tire temps and dials back torque based on predicted traction for the OEM tires at that temp.
2. The stability control (yaw control) system has control over individual wheel braking to keep the car pointed in the direction the driver points the wheel.
3. Traction Control has control over the throttle and the brakes to eliminate wheel slip under acceleration when the available traction is limited or lost.
4. It takes a deliberate effort to override these protections.
I wasn't there but the conditions that allow this to happen on the street could only occur if the driver disabled some if not all of the nannies or was way outside the limit of safe speeds on public roads. This is of course assuming this is a one vehicle accident and the driver wasn't forced off the road or distracted or a mechanical component broke or some outside cause of that nature.
This is precisely why the nannies have names like "traction control" "Stability control" "Performance Traction Management" and selections like Touring vs "TRACK". Hints to any reasonable person.
Its very hard to get to the point where the car doesn't save itself or a dumb driver.... unless the driver is just dumb enough to ignore all those warning names (mentioned above) when disabling nannies and the yellow Corvette caution icon with the skid marks behind it on the dash. Or the warnings that come up in the DIC.
I am the last one to criticize anyone for pushing the envelope and losing a car. Happens to the best of us. But to say its the manufactures fault is a bit of a stretch. Its like folks with pit bulls saying I didn't know he would eat the baby? Yea ok.
Last edited by NASTYC7; 12-05-2017 at 09:33 PM.
12-05-2017, 09:53 PM
#33
Motor Trend article.
"Smart Tires
A patented monitoring system combines data coming from the valve-stem sensors with calculations based on cornering, braking, and burnouts to infer instantaneous tire tread temperature. This information then informs the ABS, electronic limited-slip differential, StabiliTrak, and other systems to optimize performance, assuming that cold tires (below 45 degrees) generate 70 percent of peak grip, warm ones (45-115) can provide 90 percent,
and hot ones get
100 percent."
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...51-first-test/
https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/...ut-the-c7.html
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ad-test-review (6th or 7th paragraph.)
12-05-2017, 10:02 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
First, you don't know what caused the accident.
Second, Bald tires aren't an issue on dry pavement as they have more surface contacting the pavement (ever hear of slicks). Slicks or bald tires can be a problem in heavy rain but in light rain there may not be much of a problem.
Third, a lot of people think things like this happen because a driver jumps on the throttle and spins the tires when it is more probable the driver actually took his foot off the gas got into a trailing throttle oversteer situation and didn't have a clue on how to regain control. There are a lot of accidents like this all over the country involving many brands of cars and most of them are due to the driver lifting at the wrong time. Any time you see a set of skid marks curving off into the inside of a turn you can be fairly certain the driver thought they were going too fast for the turn, panic'd and took their foot off the throttle too abruptly.
Bill
Second, Bald tires aren't an issue on dry pavement as they have more surface contacting the pavement (ever hear of slicks). Slicks or bald tires can be a problem in heavy rain but in light rain there may not be much of a problem.
Third, a lot of people think things like this happen because a driver jumps on the throttle and spins the tires when it is more probable the driver actually took his foot off the gas got into a trailing throttle oversteer situation and didn't have a clue on how to regain control. There are a lot of accidents like this all over the country involving many brands of cars and most of them are due to the driver lifting at the wrong time. Any time you see a set of skid marks curving off into the inside of a turn you can be fairly certain the driver thought they were going too fast for the turn, panic'd and took their foot off the throttle too abruptly.
Bill
12-05-2017, 10:18 PM
#35
Stability control saves Corvettes and any manner of cars from leaving the roadway daily around the globe. Often times smug folks aren't even aware the systems saved them. If traction is available and you continue to drive the car you'd be surprised how often and how well the nannies help you get out of trouble.
If the driver quit driving or ran out of experience as you suggest then yes you may be correct, hard to save a car without a driver.
However going to the extreme and saying "they aren't going to do sh*t to save you" you would be completely wrong.
I have been saved or at the very least helped many times over the last 18 years of driving Corvettes since these systems started appearing on Vettes.
And unless you drive like granny or only in excellent conditions you have to. Weather you admit it or not. Plenty of examples of these systems saving lives and damage to cars. It happens so often these days folks think its routine. Or worse yet they think they saved the car all on their own with superior driving skill. LOL
Read up on stability control. If it didn't work they wouldn't have ruled it out of F1 for so many years.
Last edited by dar02081961; 12-05-2017 at 10:26 PM.
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12-05-2017, 10:19 PM
#36
I'm Batman..
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Dude good lookin out! As soon as I saw it I thought the same thing.. LOL
Last edited by FYREANT; 12-05-2017 at 10:19 PM.
12-05-2017, 11:34 PM
#39
Yea works both ways.
I get a laugh at folks that think these cars are only for warm weather and pretty days.
Other than the summer tires which are the default on most sports cars, these cars are made to drive daily in most any conditions. Thats what separates them from most super cars. It doesn't have AWD but other than that all the blocks are checked.
I have driven my Vettes daily year round, even on the autobahn in snow and rain. Don't let the summer tires fool you, the designers know some folks will drive these cars daily on the daily commute regardless of weather and they kept that in mind. Hence the weather mode. And in PTM the "wet" setting. Don't believe that nonsense about these being "waxer" cars.
I get a laugh at folks that think these cars are only for warm weather and pretty days.
Other than the summer tires which are the default on most sports cars, these cars are made to drive daily in most any conditions. Thats what separates them from most super cars. It doesn't have AWD but other than that all the blocks are checked.
I have driven my Vettes daily year round, even on the autobahn in snow and rain. Don't let the summer tires fool you, the designers know some folks will drive these cars daily on the daily commute regardless of weather and they kept that in mind. Hence the weather mode. And in PTM the "wet" setting. Don't believe that nonsense about these being "waxer" cars.
Last edited by dar02081961; 12-05-2017 at 11:40 PM.
12-05-2017, 11:42 PM
#40
Drifting
You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Or perhaps you aren't thinking about how what you are saying sounds.
Stability control saves Corvettes and any manner of cars from leaving the roadway daily around the globe. Often times smug folks aren't even aware the systems saved them. If traction is available and you continue to drive the car you'd be surprised how often and how well the nannies help you get out of trouble.
If the driver quit driving or ran out of experience as you suggest then yes you may be correct, hard to save a car without a driver.
However going to the extreme and saying "they aren't going to do sh*t to save you" you would be completely wrong.
I have been saved or at the very least helped many times over the last 18 years of driving Corvettes since these systems started appearing on Vettes.
And unless you drive like granny or only in excellent conditions you have to. Weather you admit it or not. Plenty of examples of these systems saving lives and damage to cars. It happens so often these days folks think its routine. Or worse yet they think they saved the car all on their own with superior driving skill. LOL
Read up on stability control. If it didn't work they wouldn't have ruled it out of F1 for so many years.
Stability control saves Corvettes and any manner of cars from leaving the roadway daily around the globe. Often times smug folks aren't even aware the systems saved them. If traction is available and you continue to drive the car you'd be surprised how often and how well the nannies help you get out of trouble.
If the driver quit driving or ran out of experience as you suggest then yes you may be correct, hard to save a car without a driver.
However going to the extreme and saying "they aren't going to do sh*t to save you" you would be completely wrong.
I have been saved or at the very least helped many times over the last 18 years of driving Corvettes since these systems started appearing on Vettes.
And unless you drive like granny or only in excellent conditions you have to. Weather you admit it or not. Plenty of examples of these systems saving lives and damage to cars. It happens so often these days folks think its routine. Or worse yet they think they saved the car all on their own with superior driving skill. LOL
Read up on stability control. If it didn't work they wouldn't have ruled it out of F1 for so many years.
I got into a rather unexpected 4-wheel slide coming out of T1 at VIR last weekend on cold Cup 2's in sport mode doing chase for holiday laps. I was being cautious too since it was the first session out of the day. Unless these tires have heat in them, they can be a real handful, even for experienced drivers.
I've also spun in T8 by lifting as Bill mentioned previously. Driver mistake (albeit with crummy OEM rear caster settings) but the nannies didn't save me.
Do they help? Without a doubt.
Will they save each and every potential wreck scenario? Not even close.
Last edited by Newton06; 12-05-2017 at 11:43 PM.
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