sunsalem

Truth.
No matter how you slice or dice it, the GT is extremely quick around a track.
However, most likely it will be a very rare sight for anyone to actually see it doing so.

SBC_and_a_stick

I saw the mid 2000s Ford GT exactly once at the track in the 8 years or so I've been doing events. Where you do see them competing is usually at the Mojave runs for 1 mile, 1.5 mile runs. The body is super slippery and that V8 has lots of overhead.

This new one I expect to see 0 times at either top speed or road course events. The V6 is not good enough for top speed builds nor is the car cheap enough to run wheel to wheel.

punky

These "Ring Time" and road course performance threads crack me up. Guys arguing about which of these super cars is 1.2 seconds faster in a 3 minute event. As if the 60 or 70 year old execs and fund managers would feel any difference driving to their local golf clubs. These cars are like liter bikes where the majority of adopters will never use 40% of their potential.

the professor

That is quite the impressive time but, as you and many others have alluded to, it is sad where Ford positioned this car. I love the ACR-E and ZR1 because they are cars that I can aspire to own but it is hard to even aspire to seeing a GT unless I go to an event where I know that one is going to be and I never expect to actually see one in action.

jimmyb

No question the Ford GT is a great car. But...when you price like they did, market the way they did, allocate it the way they did....
Well, the car better be THE biggest, baddest boy in the jungle. And it seems that title belongs to the McLaren 720S

SBC_and_a_stick

baddest boy in the jungle...no such thing. It's an effort on behalf of our minds to simplify our world. Cars are too complicated to stack hierarchically. McLaren has a good chassis design and electronic management software. However, the McLaren engine pales in comparison to what either Ferrari, Porsche or AMG can make. The transmission is similarly second rate in the McLaren compared to a PDK or other DCTs. Since Ferrari, Porsche, and AMG use their competitive advantage in engine building to get customers they are not going to let McLaren use their engines and McLaren will not make a chassis for them either. IF that actually took place and neither party would hold the car down with 305 rear section tire then you may have your king of the hill.

jimmyb

I disagree. The Ford GT is supposedly a "race car for the street", being almost 2 seconds slower around Willow (with the same driver driving) than the 720S is quite substantial.

I have never read one complaint about the 720S transmission or engine. Please point me in a direction there

SBC_and_a_stick

What if I told you the McLaren engine is based on 1980s Nissan architecture?

https://jalopnik.com/this-20-year-ol...ren-1793155467

Ah, developing engines from scratch is expensive. Ask yourself how much Ricardo knew about engines before they built the first engine for McLaren.

jimmyb

^^^^^
Interesting read. Not sure what your point is sharing it or how it defends your position on McLaren 720 drivetrain.
And again, you're the one that stated the engine/transmission are substandard....
Show me one review that shares your thoughts. EVERY review I've read raves over the engine and transmission.
BTW, Mercedes and McLaren made a car together not that long ago.

What if I told you that the 911 is based on the 356 which was based on the Beetle. I'm pretty certain there's about as much Beetle left in the 911 as there is Nissan V8 left in the McLaren 4L TT

sunsalem

VERY interesting link...thanx.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_plc

+1
AFAIK, McLaren has never been an engine builder (unlike the 3 you mentioned above).
The lack of building their own engine has always been their major Achilles Heel (at least in their racing programs).
For example, their legendary F1 GTR (below) used a BMW V12.





And for years, they used MB with great success in their F1 Grand Prix cars.
Three years ago, they disastrously switched to Honda.
For the 2018 season, they will use Renault for the first time.
My point here is McLaren has built a business model around NOT being an engine manufacturer.
So far, they have been reasonably successful doing so, and this Nissan/Ricardo unit in their street cars looks like a winner too.
Of course, if Ferrari, Porsche, MB, etc. decided to declare war on McLaren via engine building, the boys from Woking wouldn't stand a chance.
Much has been made of the 305s on the rear of the 720s.
Is it possible McLaren believes a wider tire isn't really needed for traction purposes?

ZoratZ06

This whole McLaren thing is SILLY.

They are one of the MOST successful race car companies in history with 8 Constructors and 12 drivers Championships in F-1, 182 F-1 race wins, including possibly the most dominant in F-1 history when partnered with Honda, Senna and Prost. Senna, Prost, Fittipaldi, Lauda, Hunt, Hakkinen and Hamilton have also driven and WON championships in their cars. That's a who's, who of all time F-1 greats.

They have multiple Indy 500 victories (something Ferrari can't say), and multiple Can-Am Championships, including a clean sweep in 1969. Sadly the same series/car that Bruce was killed in.

Oh yeah and 2 Le Mans wins in 1995 and 1996.

When it comes to racing they are as good as anyone who has EVER done it. Period.

The McLaren F1 road is considered to be perhaps the best road car ever built and current prices reflect that.

So, what is the point of this long post? McLaren does things RIGHT. They don't mess around, they simply build GREAT race cars and GREAT road cars. In fact, there isn't a Ferrari currently built that can compete with the 720s. Not building their own engines is BRILLIANT. It saves a lot of money in R&D, and to be honest, when it comes to racing, they've won with most of them.

I have nothing but respect for them...Especially when you consider they don't have the finances of GM, VW (Porsche), Toyota, Fiat/Ferrari etc...And they are spanking the pants off just about all of them...the new GT2RS is the only thing that's close.

sunsalem

Thank you for saying it better than I did.


BTW, join us on the F1 Chat Thread when you have time.
We have some good conversations...
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...at-thread.html

Phoenix64

3426lbs with the aluminum wheels.
MORE than a P1 with it's batteries and electric motor.

jimmyb

Interesting that we have a Ferrari homer thing going on Corvette Forum. I agree with everything you said. The McLaren 720S is the state of the art at this moment ....It IS a better car than the 488/Huracan/GT/etc. and should be an interesting comparison with the GT2RS.

keagan

I'm glad the GT is "heavy" for a supercar, now we can all stop babbling about the C7 Z weights.

Leonie

I do not see a "lack" here...


Best regards, Bernd

SBC_and_a_stick

McLaren wanted to make a street car from as many British parts as possible, hence little-known-for-engines Ricardo. I think it's comical their engine draws upon a Japanese engine. Safe to say, there have been so many technical advancements in engine design since the '80s that the move only shows Ricardo's inability to develop an engine from scratch in house. How many times have Honda and Merc/AMG for example developed an engine from scratch since then you think? Both companies warranty engines running ~25psi of boost in affordable cars that see high mileage. These engines are designed 100% on the computer in simulations. In the 80's it was a lot of trial and error and intuition. It's ridiculous that you'd resurrect something from that era.

I've seen countless car reviews that state McLaren's have more turbo lag and DCT lag than Porsche's and Ferrari's. You're not looking hard enough.

Porsche started from a 30 year old 356? I don't see how this analogy works.

Yes, Mercedes and McLaren made a car before, but today they compete and Merc is not giving them anything, and leads back to my point.

I'll bet my 401k on it. The 720 will be vastly faster on wider rubber on any non-oval road course.

It's true that in some cars, wider is not better. That's typically the case with under-powered cars like Miatas, BRZ, Elise. The extra drag and rolling resistance cannot be compensated for with extra latteral G.

There is so much motor in the McLaren that even 355s will be at home on it.

Enzom

I have a 720S. I've had lots of fast cars. No motor pulls like what sits behind me in the 720S. And the tranny is amazing. I had a 991 Turbo PDK, and the McLaren tranny gives up nothing. Whether McLaren builds its own engines or not makes no difference to how this car pulls.

I've run a 9.73 @ 147 at Atco on stock rubber with that motor, and Randy Pobst set the production car lap record at Big Willow in it.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2018-...t-test-review/

Kappa

Saying the 720S engine is a Nissan engine is like saying the LT5 is based on the L98.

The new McLaren motors, especially the new 4.0L, don't have much if anything besides basic architecture in common with the older design. Not only that, McLaren bought the rights to the engine from TWR not Nissan, which means it probably if not wholly designed by the British racing outfit.

Enzom

Wow - that's amazing stuff. Saw that very car at the McLaren tech center in Woking when I toured it last year with Amanda McLaren (Bruce's daughter) Quite an experience.