Time to Kill Nurburgring Lap Record Reporting
11-09-2018, 04:00 AM
#101
Speaking of the Cup 2R. They still havent been released to the public yet. Tire rack keeps pushing the date back every month for a couple of months now.
This is not a slight upgrade to Cup 2's. This is a race tire.
Almost $800 per front and almost $900 per rear.
$3400 per set!!! Dave, even you can't spin these as some slightly upgraded tire for that price. Regular cup 2's are far cheaper.
The Porsche's are not on some other worldly level. Porsche does have better quality control supplying vehicles for testing and better usage of its factory drivers for lap records. But a GT3 RS is not on the same level as a ZR1 at most of the major tracks in America. Especially not on regular cup 2 which BTW you can get regular compound cup 2 and not Porsche spec since you think they are slow.
A GT3 RS is not on the same level. Unless the ZR1 starts to cut power. Lol.
This is not a slight upgrade to Cup 2's. This is a race tire.
Almost $800 per front and almost $900 per rear.
$3400 per set!!! Dave, even you can't spin these as some slightly upgraded tire for that price. Regular cup 2's are far cheaper.
The Porsche's are not on some other worldly level. Porsche does have better quality control supplying vehicles for testing and better usage of its factory drivers for lap records. But a GT3 RS is not on the same level as a ZR1 at most of the major tracks in America. Especially not on regular cup 2 which BTW you can get regular compound cup 2 and not Porsche spec since you think they are slow.
A GT3 RS is not on the same level. Unless the ZR1 starts to cut power. Lol.
I speculate the Porsche-Michelin CUP 2 R development tire "deal" for marketing was predicated on volume demand. I don't think we are going to see actual street CUP 2 Rs until Michelin has X amount of GT2RS and GT3RS customer orders..on hand...
My2C
11-09-2018, 04:19 AM
#102
Probably the guys that run Ilse of Man, 37.73 miles per lap . Example video. Note - Peter Hickman set a new record with average lap speed over 135 mph earlier this year, but I couldn't find a video of that run (apparently not part of a race), although there are a few montage videos of him. Speeds on the straights and some of the turns exceed 200 mph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nlzxR6lN7Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nlzxR6lN7Q
11-09-2018, 07:26 AM
#103
Drifting
August 2017??? I was 3 months away from picking up my 2018 GT3! Hadn't ordered an RS until April of this year.
Again, your conspiracy theories are humorous at best, yet all the magazines are showing the 2RS 2 to 4 seconds quicker on our American tracks, in fully equipped cars.
Plenty of track focused cars have options to delete A/C and radio, i.e. GT350R / Z28.
The cars in the mags have been fully loaded.
If you can find me a set of magical 4+ second dot tires, I'd like to purchase them for my competition series starting next year.
Dave
11-09-2018, 07:33 AM
#104
Safety Car
While I know this really won't get us anywhere near common ground... Sort of like a Democrat and a Republican nowadays, if one says the sky is blue the other has to disagree, but here it goes.
First off, and I hate that I have to discredit the ZR1 to make a point, but since you continue to try to discredit the Porsche, I'll stick to facts.
What makes this a no win position for the Porsche is any victory is because of the tires, so this is a losing argument for the GT cars, yet up until the cup 2R's, no one cried foul that the ZR1 had the most advanced Michelin track tire previously. (Pirelli trofeo R and KUMHO 720 still better for a lap)
So let's start with just the measly ole turbo SPorsche, on full tread street tires compared to Zr1:
Laguna Seca: .8 slower than Zr1
Willow Springs: .5 slower than Zr1
VIR: 6 seconds slower
So with the exception of VIR, a full tread street tired turbo S is within a second of the track spec Zr1!? And this isn't even a GT car with full spherical bearing suspension, 300+ less lbs and a competition tire... Come on man.
The GT3RS will beat the ZR1 at 2 of those three tracks... Handidly. But but the tires...
That's why I tried to share the 3RS, with a passenger, in traffic, fully loaded, on the street tire cup 2's, not the R tires...
While you say you can get non Porsche spec tires in the cup 2's, I'm disappointed in you continually playing stupid here... The corvette spec cup 2 is unique to only that car/size... And exactly why Mercedes uses the corvette tire for their track tests, because it is on a whole nother level when compared to a standard cup 2!
So no matter what, you either have a Porsche with a better tire (when equipped with a 2R) or corvette with a better tire when the RS is not equipped with a 2R.
To believe the 3RS is not in the same league (or better) than the ZR1 is only accurate of going for a top speed run. The 3RS and 2RS are track built road cars, meant to run the same time lap after lap after lap...
Nexr year, you'll have to eat crow when Pobst runs the 3RS at the same tracks, and you can then go back to the but but but the tires argument.
Carry on
If you think I'm the one who's dillusional for thinking the ZR1 is faster than a GT3 RS, think again....... You are the one smoking crack. The 3RS might be slightly faster on those outlier tracks where the ZR1 performed poorly, and even then because GM (and it's fanboys) won't admit the thing cuts timing way back once it starts to heat up. It has no chance at big tracks, and maybe no chance anywhere without the $3500 super secret tires that Michelin STILL hasn't been able to release to the public. Since when has it taken this long for Michelin to get a tire out, especially since as you claim, it's only slightly better than the MPSC on the Corvette? The only people that have driven on these tires are in private media, or manufacturer tests.
You make a good salesman, but I'm not buying. If you think I'm discrediting the GT3 RS by saying a ZR1 is faster, you are even more Porsche blind than I thought. Not even many Porsche fanboys really think the 3.2 RS is really faster than a ZR1. You are in a class of your own.........
Last edited by heavychevy; 11-09-2018 at 07:57 AM.
11-09-2018, 08:15 AM
#106
Race Director
FWIW, every Nürburgring Corvette record attempt has been done in Corvettes with roll cages, Sparco seats, and 6 point harnesses. Tadge has been CRYSTAL clear on this.
11-09-2018, 08:21 AM
#107
Le Mans Master
Yeah, But!? ;)
Lol, I'll respond because I'm impressed with you actually posting a complete sentence!
The 'regular' GT3 on full tread (read, slower than corvette spec cup 2) already went 7:12.
So I'm gonna reckon the RS with twice the aero, less weight, better suspension and wider track width goes 5 - 10 seconds faster than the standard GT3 even on the same tires.
But JG... what we all know, is whatever the time it will be faster than any time posted to date by GM. ��
Best Regards,
Dave
Furthermore, recall that European test with the ZO6 besting the GT3 loose. The GT3 RS is precision dialed which prior to those tires spun Pobst several times. Precarious, but, seriously, Good Luck!
Just put Hoosiers on it and call it good.
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 11-09-2018 at 08:23 AM.
11-09-2018, 08:45 AM
#108
Drifting
As long as you are trying to convince people the 3RS is faster than a ZR1, no, we will not find any common ground. Is it a better track car? Absolutely! Will it be more reliable and consistent on track? Of course! But faster, hell no. No 3RS is doing 1:51 on VIR Full or 1:26 at Road Atlanta, even on Cup R. I like how you mentioned the times of the ZR1 vs Porsche Turbo but act like that time with the 6 second delta isn't a big deal. 6 seconds is a mauling!!! And truth be told, the Turbo S could easily be faster than a 3RS if Porsche didn't make sure it wasn't. It's been this way since at least the 996. It's quite easy to make a Turbo significantly faster than a GT3 or RS. A properly setup 991 Turbo will destroy a GT3, so don't try to talk like it's some sort of scrub. In fact the TTS is almost four seconds faster around VIR than the 991.1 GT3, 3 seconds at willow, and pretty much owns it everywhere. It's also faster than the .1 RS at several of these tracks. So imagine if Porsche actually tried to make it lap fast..............And also, keep in mind that the .2 is only marginally faster than a .1 without those tires.
If you think I'm the one who's dillusional for thinking the ZR1 is faster than a GT3 RS, think again....... You are the one smoking crack. The 3RS might be slightly faster on those outlier tracks where the ZR1 performed poorly, and even then because GM (and it's fanboys) won't admit the thing cuts timing way back once it starts to heat up. It has no chance at big tracks, and maybe no chance anywhere without the $3500 super secret tires that Michelin STILL hasn't been able to release to the public. Since when has it taken this long for Michelin to get a tire out, especially since as you claim, it's only slightly better than the MPSC on the Corvette? The only people that have driven on these tires are in private media, or manufacturer tests.
You make a good salesman, but I'm not buying. If you think I'm discrediting the GT3 RS by saying a ZR1 is faster, you are even more Porsche blind than I thought. Not even many Porsche fanboys really think the 3.2 RS is really faster than a ZR1. You are in a class of your own.........
If you think I'm the one who's dillusional for thinking the ZR1 is faster than a GT3 RS, think again....... You are the one smoking crack. The 3RS might be slightly faster on those outlier tracks where the ZR1 performed poorly, and even then because GM (and it's fanboys) won't admit the thing cuts timing way back once it starts to heat up. It has no chance at big tracks, and maybe no chance anywhere without the $3500 super secret tires that Michelin STILL hasn't been able to release to the public. Since when has it taken this long for Michelin to get a tire out, especially since as you claim, it's only slightly better than the MPSC on the Corvette? The only people that have driven on these tires are in private media, or manufacturer tests.
You make a good salesman, but I'm not buying. If you think I'm discrediting the GT3 RS by saying a ZR1 is faster, you are even more Porsche blind than I thought. Not even many Porsche fanboys really think the 3.2 RS is really faster than a ZR1. You are in a class of your own.........
I just am not a fan of the depreciation the turbo cars new have vs new GT cars, so I choose to play with GT cars for now, and will look to pick up an 18 Turbo S for $50k off in another year or so.
VIR, Atlanta, Road America, all very high hp tracks... ZR1 should be able to put one fast lap, agreed, as the tracks become more technical, the advantage will shift to the 3RS. I frankly don't understand the gap at willow, it's not called the fastest track in the West because of its technical sections. 😉
Where we will forever be on different sides of the fence, and frankly I didn't see you refute much of my earlier response...a street tired turbo S is within a second of a race tired ZR1. And while I agree the Cup 2R may be marginally faster than the corvette cup 2... Both tires are faster than the standard issue cup 2 on every other manufactured car... So why weren't you crying foul when the Z06 was beating the other cars then? Oh, because it helped your argument then.
Again, if the Z06 compound is such a slouch, please ask Mercedes why it's their GTR track tire (that you also have to order after the fact). The Cup 2R isn't more than a second best case scenario, faster than the corvette cup 2... If they are, you're now stating the cup 2R is quicker than a Hoosier R7.... Who's the salesman?
But but, the tires. 😢
11-09-2018, 08:53 AM
#109
Drifting
You don't presently own that Ring model. I was being generous with that 7:20.
Furthermore, recall that European test with the ZO6 besting the GT3 loose. The GT3 RS is precision dialed which prior to those tires spun Pobst several times. Precarious, but, seriously, Good Luck!
Just put Hoosiers on it and call it good.
Furthermore, recall that European test with the ZO6 besting the GT3 loose. The GT3 RS is precision dialed which prior to those tires spun Pobst several times. Precarious, but, seriously, Good Luck!
Just put Hoosiers on it and call it good.
I never know how much of your response is sarcasm or genuine feedback, but I'm gonna try to take you seriously.
We agree, just put Hoosiers on all the cars, and we level this playing field quickly, as I believe lots of cars have advantages and disadvantages based on manufacturer tire selection.
Your 7:20 comment escapes me, the standard,.2 GT3, driven by sport auto, on standard full tread cup 2's went 7:18 vs Porsche 7:12. They also lapped the .2 RS at 7:05. Is it hard to believe a Porsche factory driver is 6-10 seconds ahead of a magazine driver across 7 minutes and 13 miles?
Dave
11-09-2018, 09:02 AM
#110
Le Mans Master
Oh! ;)
2 comments, ok 3.
I never know how much of your response is sarcasm or genuine feedback, but I'm gonna try to take you seriously.
We agree, just put Hoosiers on all the cars, and we level this playing field quickly, as I believe lots of cars have advantages and disadvantages based on manufacturer tire selection.
Your 7:20 comment escapes me, the standard,.2 GT3, driven by sport auto, on standard full tread cup 2's went 7:18 vs Porsche 7:12. They also lapped the .2 RS at 7:05. Is it hard to believe a Porsche factory driver is 6-10 seconds ahead of a magazine driver across 7 minutes and 13 miles?
Dave
The ZO6 tire thing may be eclipsing Heavy's PTM synopsis though, win Porsche!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 11-09-2018 at 10:59 AM.
11-09-2018, 11:20 AM
#111
CUP 2 R availability (lack thereof) same on the old continent/Germany. Informally promised for a year and formally for 6 months still crickets.. but road rating documentation (MICHELIN_PilotSportCup2_R_Anwendungshin weise) do point that the commercial 2R variant (not the development tires used for the tests) are rated for "extremely dry road conditions vis a vis CUP 2 rated as normal dry conditions.
I speculate the Porsche-Michelin CUP 2 R development tire "deal" for marketing was predicated on volume demand. I don't think we are going to see actual street CUP 2 Rs until Michelin has X amount of GT2RS and GT3RS customer orders..on hand...
My2C
I speculate the Porsche-Michelin CUP 2 R development tire "deal" for marketing was predicated on volume demand. I don't think we are going to see actual street CUP 2 Rs until Michelin has X amount of GT2RS and GT3RS customer orders..on hand...
My2C
Last edited by Robert R1; 11-09-2018 at 11:23 AM.
11-09-2018, 12:02 PM
#112
The GT2 RS is plenty fast on standard Cup 2 tires. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsv4u2rwj0c
11-09-2018, 01:50 PM
#113
Safety Car
I absolutely agree the .2 turbo S on Hoosiers has the ability to be faster than a .2 RS, and I plan to prove this later this winter (my neighbor has an 18 turbo S that I loaned my Hoosier wheel and tires to just last weekend.
I just am not a fan of the depreciation the turbo cars new have vs new GT cars, so I choose to play with GT cars for now, and will look to pick up an 18 Turbo S for $50k off in another year or so.
VIR, Atlanta, Road America, all very high hp tracks... ZR1 should be able to put one fast lap, agreed, as the tracks become more technical, the advantage will shift to the 3RS. I frankly don't understand the gap at willow, it's not called the fastest track in the West because of its technical sections. 😉
Where we will forever be on different sides of the fence, and frankly I didn't see you refute much of my earlier response...a street tired turbo S is within a second of a race tired ZR1. And while I agree the Cup 2R may be marginally faster than the corvette cup 2... Both tires are faster than the standard issue cup 2 on every other manufactured car... So why weren't you crying foul when the Z06 was beating the other cars then? Oh, because it helped your argument then.
Again, if the Z06 compound is such a slouch, please ask Mercedes why it's their GTR track tire (that you also have to order after the fact). The Cup 2R isn't more than a second best case scenario, faster than the corvette cup 2... If they are, you're now stating the cup 2R is quicker than a Hoosier R7.... Who's the salesman?
But but, the tires. 😢
More telling though is the ZR1 six seconds faster at VIR than the Turbo S. And that ZR1 wasn't driven all that well based on the video. Plenty of time left in it. See the references to exit speeds out of hog pen.
Road Atlanta is not just hp. You don't get around it fast by blasting the one long straight. High speed cornering is mandatory to be fast there. The ZR1 is 3 seconds slower than a full blown cup on Michelin slicks. On slicks it might be even. And that's not a factory race car driver. Not far off, but not exactly Nick Tandy or Kevin Estre. Also 3 seconds slower at VIR. On street tires. Can a GT3 RS do that anywhere? Save your excuses for track day.
So now you are using arguments I haven't participated in to prove a point? Lol. Desperate much. I didn't participate in many 997 vs C6 because the vettes were so much faster it didn't matter. They were pretty much already faster before Corvette went to Mpsc at all....... You are making useless points because you are offended that the ZR1 will run circles around a 3RS. Lol.
Who said the ZR1 tire was a slouch? Can you drama queen any more? I never once criticized the Mpsc on the ZR1. But only pointed out there are much better tires out now. One being the kumho Viper v720 and now, clearly the Cup 2r. Which is significantly faster though you try to play it down.
You are a spin doctor. And an irrational Porsche fanboy.
Last edited by heavychevy; 11-09-2018 at 01:52 PM.
11-09-2018, 01:56 PM
#114
I said the ZR1 performed poorly there. It's no secret that the ZR1's lap times are hit or miss. They are not relatively consistent from track to track. What more should I say than that. They can't even get the same car to run a similar time at their home track across the street with their factory driver piloting. It was 3 seconds slower. Need any more proof dude? GM was begging for a morning run at Laguna for a reason..... That has been discussed ad nauseum.
More telling though is the ZR1 six seconds faster at VIR than the Turbo S. And that ZR1 wasn't driven all that well based on the video. Plenty of time left in it. See the references to exit speeds out of hog pen.
Road Atlanta is not just hp. You don't get around it fast by blasting the one long straight. High speed cornering is mandatory to be fast there. The ZR1 is 3 seconds slower than a full blown cup on Michelin slicks. On slicks it might be even. And that's not a factory race car driver. Not far off, but not exactly Nick Tandy or Kevin Estre. Also 3 seconds slower at VIR. On street tires. Can a GT3 RS do that anywhere? Save your excuses for track day.
So now you are using arguments I haven't participated in to prove a point? Lol. Desperate much. I didn't participate in many 997 vs C6 because the vettes were so much faster it didn't matter. They were pretty much already faster before Corvette went to Mpsc at all....... You are making useless points because you are offended that the ZR1 will run circles around a 3RS. Lol.
Who said the ZR1 tire was a slouch? Can you drama queen any more? I never once criticized the Mpsc on the ZR1. But only pointed out there are much better tires out now. One being the kumho Viper v720 and now, clearly the Cup 2r. Which is significantly faster though you try to play it down.
You are a spin doctor. And an irrational Porsche fanboy.
More telling though is the ZR1 six seconds faster at VIR than the Turbo S. And that ZR1 wasn't driven all that well based on the video. Plenty of time left in it. See the references to exit speeds out of hog pen.
Road Atlanta is not just hp. You don't get around it fast by blasting the one long straight. High speed cornering is mandatory to be fast there. The ZR1 is 3 seconds slower than a full blown cup on Michelin slicks. On slicks it might be even. And that's not a factory race car driver. Not far off, but not exactly Nick Tandy or Kevin Estre. Also 3 seconds slower at VIR. On street tires. Can a GT3 RS do that anywhere? Save your excuses for track day.
So now you are using arguments I haven't participated in to prove a point? Lol. Desperate much. I didn't participate in many 997 vs C6 because the vettes were so much faster it didn't matter. They were pretty much already faster before Corvette went to Mpsc at all....... You are making useless points because you are offended that the ZR1 will run circles around a 3RS. Lol.
Who said the ZR1 tire was a slouch? Can you drama queen any more? I never once criticized the Mpsc on the ZR1. But only pointed out there are much better tires out now. One being the kumho Viper v720 and now, clearly the Cup 2r. Which is significantly faster though you try to play it down.
You are a spin doctor. And an irrational Porsche fanboy.
11-09-2018, 02:56 PM
#115
Drifting
I said the ZR1 performed poorly there. It's no secret that the ZR1's lap times are hit or miss. They are not relatively consistent from track to track. What more should I say than that. They can't even get the same car to run a similar time at their home track across the street with their factory driver piloting. It was 3 seconds slower. Need any more proof dude? GM was begging for a morning run at Laguna for a reason..... That has been discussed ad nauseum.
More telling though is the ZR1 six seconds faster at VIR than the Turbo S. And that ZR1 wasn't driven all that well based on the video. Plenty of time left in it. See the references to exit speeds out of hog pen.
Road Atlanta is not just hp. You don't get around it fast by blasting the one long straight. High speed cornering is mandatory to be fast there. The ZR1 is 3 seconds slower than a full blown cup on Michelin slicks. On slicks it might be even. And that's not a factory race car driver. Not far off, but not exactly Nick Tandy or Kevin Estre. Also 3 seconds slower at VIR. On street tires. Can a GT3 RS do that anywhere? Save your excuses for track day.
So now you are using arguments I haven't participated in to prove a point? Lol. Desperate much. I didn't participate in many 997 vs C6 because the vettes were so much faster it didn't matter. They were pretty much already faster before Corvette went to Mpsc at all....... You are making useless points because you are offended that the ZR1 will run circles around a 3RS. Lol.
Who said the ZR1 tire was a slouch? Can you drama queen any more? I never once criticized the Mpsc on the ZR1. But only pointed out there are much better tires out now. One being the kumho Viper v720 and now, clearly the Cup 2r. Which is significantly faster though you try to play it down.
You are a spin doctor. And an irrational Porsche fanboy.
More telling though is the ZR1 six seconds faster at VIR than the Turbo S. And that ZR1 wasn't driven all that well based on the video. Plenty of time left in it. See the references to exit speeds out of hog pen.
Road Atlanta is not just hp. You don't get around it fast by blasting the one long straight. High speed cornering is mandatory to be fast there. The ZR1 is 3 seconds slower than a full blown cup on Michelin slicks. On slicks it might be even. And that's not a factory race car driver. Not far off, but not exactly Nick Tandy or Kevin Estre. Also 3 seconds slower at VIR. On street tires. Can a GT3 RS do that anywhere? Save your excuses for track day.
So now you are using arguments I haven't participated in to prove a point? Lol. Desperate much. I didn't participate in many 997 vs C6 because the vettes were so much faster it didn't matter. They were pretty much already faster before Corvette went to Mpsc at all....... You are making useless points because you are offended that the ZR1 will run circles around a 3RS. Lol.
Who said the ZR1 tire was a slouch? Can you drama queen any more? I never once criticized the Mpsc on the ZR1. But only pointed out there are much better tires out now. One being the kumho Viper v720 and now, clearly the Cup 2r. Which is significantly faster though you try to play it down.
You are a spin doctor. And an irrational Porsche fanboy.
Uhh, you stayed out of conversations when it was the 996/997 cars vs. Corvettes... because they we're complete slouches compared to the GM Lineup... 360HP and 450HP when GM was 500 and 600+... and didn't weigh 400+ Lbs more... The C6 chassis was in a completely different league, handling & hp.
So now you're admitting there are other fast tires... and that the Corvette Cup 2's are faster than the other cup 2's? Or are you going to spin this later?
If you go to my 'original posts' from almost a year ago... I said.. the ZR1 will not compete with the GT2RS... it will compete with the GT3RS... this is where we can disagree... but so far... 'TRACK LAPS' support my argument not yours... and then you 'concede' that it must have been 'too warm' for the ZR1 to run a good lap... well last I checked... your lap time is your lap time... there isn't a 'correction factor' in Lap times like the dragstrip. Next you'll start to use segment times!
I'm actually a Fanboy of Ford if truth be told... but race Chevrolet products because for me, they're cheap, reliable and handle extremely well when compared to anything near their price range. I hate that in order to have a conversation with you (and others on this forum) it has to come down to 'why this brand is better (or worse) than the ZR1'... instead of just accepting the facts.
But again... you love to just misconstrue info to your benefit, and be on the other side of the argument.
I'll say what I've always said... The ZR1 tires are significantly better than all the other Cup 2's. The Cup 2R's are better than the Corvette Cups... but not as good as a Hoosier... (although this i give you, is not fact... as none of us have been able to drive on a Cup 2R and switch to a Hoosier... that will take some more time for people to test... I for one will just go to the Hoosier). On the corvette's best day... and the GT2RS best day... the Corvette loses every time... on the Corvette's best day and the GT3RS best day... it will come down to which track they are at... it will lose at some and win at others. And if you stay out the entire session... the RS will have the higher avg lap time, due to less weight and no loss in power.
I will be able to live with this, unlike you... when I get my ZR1... it doesn't matter to me... that another car may be a tenth or two or a second faster... here or there... it's about the driving experience... and while I 'like (Sorry don't love) the Porsche GT cars... I 'love' HP more... and the challenge of manhandling 755HP around the track will be extremely intoxicating! While also having blistering straight line speed and acceleration on the road you can only get with big V8 Monster torque.
Dave
Last edited by Dave Schotz; 11-09-2018 at 02:59 PM.
11-09-2018, 03:12 PM
#116
I think everyone here is severely underestimating the C7 chassis.
If you throw on $10,000 coilovers, a tune, and combine it with even more aero, I'd bet happily that the ZR1 would compete with the Porsche.
If you throw on $10,000 coilovers, a tune, and combine it with even more aero, I'd bet happily that the ZR1 would compete with the Porsche.
11-09-2018, 03:44 PM
#117
Drifting
Best Regards,
Dave
Last edited by Dave Schotz; 11-09-2018 at 03:44 PM.
11-09-2018, 04:09 PM
#118
If a simple coilover change (to a high end coilover) can net a good driver 1-2 seconds on a 2 minute track, then on the ring it's got to be good for at least 7 seconds by itself. Add in aero, more aggressive tune, and other enhancements and you add time up quickly.
11-09-2018, 04:39 PM
#119
Safety Car
That's funny... I love the misdirection... I've owned far more Corvette's than Porsche's... so far from a Fanboy... just a realist.
Uhh, you stayed out of conversations when it was the 996/997 cars vs. Corvettes... because they we're complete slouches compared to the GM Lineup... 360HP and 450HP when GM was 500 and 600+... and didn't weigh 400+ Lbs more... The C6 chassis was in a completely different league, handling & hp.
So now you're admitting there are other fast tires... and that the Corvette Cup 2's are faster than the other cup 2's? Or are you going to spin this later?
If you go to my 'original posts' from almost a year ago... I said.. the ZR1 will not compete with the GT2RS... it will compete with the GT3RS... this is where we can disagree... but so far... 'TRACK LAPS' support my argument not yours... and then you 'concede' that it must have been 'too warm' for the ZR1 to run a good lap... well last I checked... your lap time is your lap time... there isn't a 'correction factor' in Lap times like the dragstrip. Next you'll start to use segment times!
I'm actually a Fanboy of Ford if truth be told... but race Chevrolet products because for me, they're cheap, reliable and handle extremely well when compared to anything near their price range. I hate that in order to have a conversation with you (and others on this forum) it has to come down to 'why this brand is better (or worse) than the ZR1'... instead of just accepting the facts.
But again... you love to just misconstrue info to your benefit, and be on the other side of the argument.
I'll say what I've always said... The ZR1 tires are significantly better than all the other Cup 2's. The Cup 2R's are better than the Corvette Cups... but not as good as a Hoosier... (although this i give you, is not fact... as none of us have been able to drive on a Cup 2R and switch to a Hoosier... that will take some more time for people to test... I for one will just go to the Hoosier). On the corvette's best day... and the GT2RS best day... the Corvette loses every time... on the Corvette's best day and the GT3RS best day... it will come down to which track they are at... it will lose at some and win at others. And if you stay out the entire session... the RS will have the higher avg lap time, due to less weight and no loss in power.
I will be able to live with this, unlike you... when I get my ZR1... it doesn't matter to me... that another car may be a tenth or two or a second faster... here or there... it's about the driving experience... and while I 'like (Sorry don't love) the Porsche GT cars... I 'love' HP more... and the challenge of manhandling 755HP around the track will be extremely intoxicating! While also having blistering straight line speed and acceleration on the road you can only get with big V8 Monster torque.
Dave
Uhh, you stayed out of conversations when it was the 996/997 cars vs. Corvettes... because they we're complete slouches compared to the GM Lineup... 360HP and 450HP when GM was 500 and 600+... and didn't weigh 400+ Lbs more... The C6 chassis was in a completely different league, handling & hp.
So now you're admitting there are other fast tires... and that the Corvette Cup 2's are faster than the other cup 2's? Or are you going to spin this later?
If you go to my 'original posts' from almost a year ago... I said.. the ZR1 will not compete with the GT2RS... it will compete with the GT3RS... this is where we can disagree... but so far... 'TRACK LAPS' support my argument not yours... and then you 'concede' that it must have been 'too warm' for the ZR1 to run a good lap... well last I checked... your lap time is your lap time... there isn't a 'correction factor' in Lap times like the dragstrip. Next you'll start to use segment times!
I'm actually a Fanboy of Ford if truth be told... but race Chevrolet products because for me, they're cheap, reliable and handle extremely well when compared to anything near their price range. I hate that in order to have a conversation with you (and others on this forum) it has to come down to 'why this brand is better (or worse) than the ZR1'... instead of just accepting the facts.
But again... you love to just misconstrue info to your benefit, and be on the other side of the argument.
I'll say what I've always said... The ZR1 tires are significantly better than all the other Cup 2's. The Cup 2R's are better than the Corvette Cups... but not as good as a Hoosier... (although this i give you, is not fact... as none of us have been able to drive on a Cup 2R and switch to a Hoosier... that will take some more time for people to test... I for one will just go to the Hoosier). On the corvette's best day... and the GT2RS best day... the Corvette loses every time... on the Corvette's best day and the GT3RS best day... it will come down to which track they are at... it will lose at some and win at others. And if you stay out the entire session... the RS will have the higher avg lap time, due to less weight and no loss in power.
I will be able to live with this, unlike you... when I get my ZR1... it doesn't matter to me... that another car may be a tenth or two or a second faster... here or there... it's about the driving experience... and while I 'like (Sorry don't love) the Porsche GT cars... I 'love' HP more... and the challenge of manhandling 755HP around the track will be extremely intoxicating! While also having blistering straight line speed and acceleration on the road you can only get with big V8 Monster torque.
Dave
Most of your post is rambling. I honestly took your word for the Corvette MPSC being faster than the others even though your evidence is anecdotal at best.
The ZR1 is faster than the GT3 RS, no matter whether you want to believe it or not. And by multiple seconds at multiple tracks. (as long as ZR1 not driven before hot laps, lol). IMO pace wise Porsche won the 996 vs C5 generation. GM won the C6 vs 997 generation and Porsche is back in front with the 991 vs C7. But the only car truly faster than the ZR1 is the GT2 RS. The 3 RS just isn't on the same level. None of these extreme tires are any good for longevity and no one is gonna pay $3500 for multiple sets that last half as long as the already fast wearing Mpsc.
Put on Hoosiers and watch the ZR1 walk away, even while cutting power. Equal drivers, real world, the ZR1 wins most every time, and you know it. The Porsche will usually have better drivers on average though (at least around here they do). We will see soon enough though.
Last edited by heavychevy; 11-09-2018 at 04:40 PM.
11-09-2018, 05:22 PM
#120
Le Mans Master
But!
What's up with all the emoji's? You are starting to look like you know who...... Doppelganger?
Most of your post is rambling. I honestly took your word for the Corvette MPSC being faster than the others even though your evidence is anecdotal at best.
The ZR1 is faster than the GT3 RS, no matter whether you want to believe it or not. And by multiple seconds at multiple tracks. (as long as ZR1 not driven before hot laps, lol). IMO pace wise Porsche won the 996 vs C5 generation. GM won the C6 vs 997 generation and Porsche is back in front with the 991 vs C7. But the only car truly faster than the ZR1 is the GT2 RS. The 3 RS just isn't on the same level. None of these extreme tires are any good for longevity and no one is gonna pay $3500 for multiple sets that last half as long as the already fast wearing Mpsc.
Put on Hoosiers and watch the ZR1 walk away, even while cutting power. Equal drivers, real world, the ZR1 wins most every time, and you know it. The Porsche will usually have better drivers on average though (at least around here they do). We will see soon enough though.
Most of your post is rambling. I honestly took your word for the Corvette MPSC being faster than the others even though your evidence is anecdotal at best.
The ZR1 is faster than the GT3 RS, no matter whether you want to believe it or not. And by multiple seconds at multiple tracks. (as long as ZR1 not driven before hot laps, lol). IMO pace wise Porsche won the 996 vs C5 generation. GM won the C6 vs 997 generation and Porsche is back in front with the 991 vs C7. But the only car truly faster than the ZR1 is the GT2 RS. The 3 RS just isn't on the same level. None of these extreme tires are any good for longevity and no one is gonna pay $3500 for multiple sets that last half as long as the already fast wearing Mpsc.
Put on Hoosiers and watch the ZR1 walk away, even while cutting power. Equal drivers, real world, the ZR1 wins most every time, and you know it. The Porsche will usually have better drivers on average though (at least around here they do). We will see soon enough though.
