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90% of all of these theories on here are crazy

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Old 11-14-2018, 07:17 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by cgarnerspeed252
Hey I kinda see your point but GM as always been about a mass production, and they wanted to prove they could give you performance while saving some money. GM already competes with other supercars and personally the C7 ZR1 is already priced out of a lot of people. I put together a video of 5 cars that has proven track records for mid engine cars that can afford to cost 6 figures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iBOzBgprXw
Interesting comparo vid!
Old 11-14-2018, 07:51 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Foosh
I don't think interior trim level is the driving factor here. I think the break-point for a lot of folks is approximately $70K, and easily 50% of C7 sales were at or under that after discounts. GM is simply not going to risk 50% of the Corvette market.

It's not only a question of who can afford it. There are a lot of practical, well-off folks (like me), who will simply not pay more than that. I'm at the point where anything I buy is going to be a nearly daily, year-round driver, or not in my garage. I could write a check for a Ferrari, ZR1, or high-end Porsche, but I couldn't live with feeling like an idiot for doing so on a street car.

I think Warren Buffett still drives a Buick.
Spot on. The Corvette buyer is typically one that values the price/performance sweet spot, which is precisely why the Corvette has been so successful for so long. I also think you nailed the breaking point on the pricing. $70k is the threshold. We have seen this in the C8 pricing poll so far and in existing C7 sales. If the base C8 or whatever replaces the existing C7 is more than 65-70k then I hope GM has built double or triple the profit margin into each car because they will see 1/3 of the sales.
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:06 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by jimmyb
Another interesting thing that falcon5619's post shows is, that contrary to popular belief, Corvettes as a whole are NOT only driven by the 1LT/1LZ base package (i.e. CHEAP Corvettes for the guy who really can't afford a Corvette). Other than the Stingray, the 2LT/2LZ package was the most popular when taking ALL the Corvette bodies into account.
No doubt the 1LT Stingray is a good chunk of business, but to hear many on this very forum, it is a MAJORITY which it is clearly not. "Figures don't lie, but liars figure"
Agreed. The 2LT is a very popular package with the extra creature comforts but I am not sure how much of it is influenced as a result of dealers ordering 2LTs for stock or if folks specifically order that trim. I think it may bit a little of both.
Old 11-14-2018, 08:08 PM
  #84  
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Here is a breakdown for 2016 when there was no Grand Sport to break up the models.


Last edited by falcon5619; 11-14-2018 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:46 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by 2015GTRBE


1. Not ONE 911 customer gives 2 ***** about saving 20-30k. A good percent of Porsche 911 customers can easily go out and buy Ferrari 488s if they desired, but to many a Porsche is a Porsche.

2. Corvette has more compromised than just interior, but for decades that has been one of many glaring Corvette disappointments. Hell, I own a C5 I know first hand. The C7 is better, however I wouldn’t say it’s a nicer place to be than many other cars that even cost less or the same.

3. The Corvette value proposition is history, yes. History shows that if you stick to the same formula forever and don’t evolve you die. Look at Cadillac, look at Lincoln, and look at all of the failures made by car companies that didn’t want to embrace change. My thinking is also one that concludes that GM knows it needs to form a Corvette brand with several offerings to accomplish the goals their product can have. A 60k mid engine Corvette is like a modern day Fiero or MR2. Why in hell do you want a budget mid engine car??!!! If you need to stay in a lower budget then buy one used down the road but know you are getting the better product.
LOL not even close! Sure a minor % of 911 owners can afford to buy anything they want just as some Corvette owner but most cannot afford exotics like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston's etc. Believe me if they could they would not give Porsche a second look. And if they happen to be a true Porsche fan and can afford anything else then they usually have an exotic to go along the more mass produced 911. This applies to the Corvette as well.

And to say a ME C8 Corvette is a modern day Fiero or MR2 has got to be one of the most absurd comments I've heard on this Forum!
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:50 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by 2015GTRBE
Look, it won’t have a 427... all you geezers hoping for a muscle- mid engine hold on to your existing Corvettes. This car is about moving forward not behind.

OK, then enjoy your depressing turbo 2.0 four cylinder plug-in hybrid, because that's where things are headed.

Last edited by Michael A; 11-14-2018 at 08:52 PM.
Old 11-14-2018, 09:42 PM
  #87  
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Man this is pretty entertaining. Can't wait to see how this all shakes out....
Old 11-15-2018, 12:19 AM
  #88  
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I'm good @ "$70K, out the door" after MSRP discount. H#ll, I'm good with $80K. However, I'm not good,, and balking with no manual transmission.

Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 11-15-2018 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:21 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by 2015GTRBE


You’re missing the point.. entirely.

GM doesn’t need to lower its goals just to accommodate the base car buyer of yesterday.
I'm actually not, your theory makes no business sense. As others have already pointed out GM's goal is to sell cars, in this argument Corvettes, period. They already have a business model that has worked for 65 years & by your own admission have next to zero competition in this space. So they essentially sell every Corvette they produce (30k-ish a year). Nobody with a brain at GM is sitting around saying, "hey guys you know what will be great for Corvette sales, let's stick it in a niche that has a ton more competition". Yeah that's the ticket. As another wise forum member already posted in one of these threads, there will always be 50 year olds & 60 years olds. There is no reason for Corvette to abandon it's core buyer because they already buy all the Corvettes.

And to the question of what ZR1 buyer wants a car & interior based off a $60k base model, the quick answer is all the ZR1 buyers because, again, all the ZR1s are spoken for with additional buyers trying to find dealers with allocations. I would venture a pretty accurate guess that there isn't a potential Corvette buyer sitting out there saying to him/herself "You know I'd really love to buy a Corvette but only if it were about $100k more expensive.
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:35 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by falcon5619
Spot on. The Corvette buyer is typically one that values the price/performance sweet spot, which is precisely why the Corvette has been so successful for so long.
Personally, I prefer the 1LT not because I can't afford the higher trim levels but because I love to modify my cars to my tastes. I don't like throwing $ out the window on a higher trim package that I am probably going to replace anyway, I save that $ for my mods. I also have all the creature comforts in my other cars & since the Vette is not my daily driver I simply don't need them in this car. I also rarely buy a car brand new, especially my performance cars because I've gone through 23 cars in 25 years of driving so it doesn't make much financial sense to take a big hit in depreciation on the brand new car if I'm going to unload it in a year or two. Now with my Grand Sport I knew exactly what I wanted and spent a couple years searching for it. This car won't ever be sold but will be joined by future vehicles of my choosing.


Old 11-15-2018, 06:49 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by JABCAT
Personally, I prefer the 1LT not because I can't afford the higher trim levels but because I love to modify my cars to my tastes. I don't like throwing $ out the window on a higher trim package that I am probably going to replace anyway, I save that $ for my mods. I also have all the creature comforts in my other cars & since the Vette is not my daily driver I simply don't need them in this car. I also rarely buy a car brand new, especially my performance cars because I've gone through 23 cars in 25 years of driving so it doesn't make much financial sense to take a big hit in depreciation on the brand new car if I'm going to unload it in a year or two. Now with my Grand Sport I knew exactly what I wanted and spent a couple years searching for it. This car won't ever be sold but will be joined by future vehicles of my choosing.
I feel the same. I ordered a Grand Sport 1LT Convertible M7. The only thing I added was the 2LT sun visor that comes with Homlink since I hate my rattling garage door opener hanging on the visor. For me this was the ideal build since all I really want is to row my own gears with the top down and listen to the exhaust roar. It also keeps the price smack in the mid 60s out the door. If they offered a 0LT I probably would go with that. I would have bought used instead of ordering but it is hard to find my combination as most convertibles are ordered with auto transmission or come loaded up with lots of extra options I don’t want.

Last edited by falcon5619; 11-15-2018 at 06:50 AM.
Old 11-15-2018, 03:49 PM
  #92  
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Default 90% of all statistics are made up 50% of the time

90% of all Statistics are made up 50% of the time.


Originally Posted by 2015GTRBE
sorry people, hate to be that guy that pees on a bunch of people’s parades of dreams and fantasies but... some of you need to stop lol. 427s, 60k price tags, 170k sticker, will it have this, will it be hybrid awd... enough!

Here is the only debate.. 1. Will it actually be the “C8” or will it be part of GMs launch of Corvette as its own brand? 2. Who is it’s target competition?

1. If GM plans to target this car as the C8 then I personally think it will have way too many drawbacks and things that are compromises. The Corvette C7 should have gone more up market in its base trim. Unfortunately Corvette has to leave behind some of its old fan base and shoot a bit higher. Everyone complains about the interior or this or that and that is simply because GM continues to make a 60k base car that IMO ruins the bones of the product especially the higher models like ZR1 because it’s based on a 60k car. If GM is smart, they will make this a second model in the Corvette family at a higher price point and give it the budget it deserves and not worry about the lower end market share.. sorry guys. It has to be a GTR competitor and should cost 115-120k to be done right. It should also have the performance to demand the cost.

2. At 60k+.... it’s has no direct competition and if Boxter is it, well that is lame.

Look, it won’t have a 427... all you geezers hoping for a muscle- mid engine hold on to your existing Corvettes. This car is about moving forward not behind. I think a flat plane crank is more realistic and possibly a turbo variant down the road which would be the engine I’d get for mod ability. I finally want a Corvette that doesn’t be have to make excuses for things like poor interior or crappy panel gap etc. The every mans toy can be the Camaro, the Corvette finally needs to grow up.

Old 11-15-2018, 04:38 PM
  #93  
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The corvette is a mas produced car and not a limited exotic car factory.

If you think it is, take a tour of the factory.

Porsche sells 8,900 911's yearly (priced @ $94k and up) and I am using 911 for the 100K price comparison.

The corvette factory is capable of making 100-150 corvettes daily.

So using the lower number, it would take 90 days to produce 9000 C8 corvettes based on the 911 sales..

With a 5 day work week, 18 weeks and the production run would be finished.

If GM overprice their C8, they will have to shut the factory down for more then half the year and that will not make the UAW happy.

Lower sales price brings greater volumes and profit.

Last edited by norge1956; 11-15-2018 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:43 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by norge1956
Porsche sells 8,900 911's yearly (priced @ $94k and up) and I am using 911 for the 100K price comparison.
.
That is what they sell in the US. Overall 911 production is about 35,000 units a year, very close to the Vette.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:50 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by norge1956
Lower sales price brings greater volumes and profit.
I guess they use different math in Germany?


Porsche makes $17,000 profit per car
Old 11-15-2018, 07:31 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Tom73

That is what they sell in the US. Overall 911 production is about 35,000 units a year, very close to the Vette.
Here are the numbers 33820 2017 close and yes worldwide
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...upe-cabriolet/
Old 11-15-2018, 07:46 PM
  #97  
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GM marketing team knows the feeding frenzy for info on the C8 is money in the bank. Hope it live's up to all the cazy hype......it could just as easily flop flop fizz fizz.

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Old 11-15-2018, 09:58 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by fasttoys


Here are the numbers 33820 2017 close and yes worldwide
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...upe-cabriolet/
Only $49/mo for access.
Old 11-16-2018, 07:26 AM
  #99  
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I bought a c6zr1 and can say I'll never spend 100+ on a car based of a sub 60k car again in my life. Live and learn experience for me
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:53 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by stealthy08
I bought a c6zr1 and can say I'll never spend 100+ on a car based of a sub 60k car again in my life. Live and learn experience for me
Was the C6ZR1 no good or are you saying the car is just not worth the extra money considering it is designed to be a $60k car?


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