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There's terrific points about the Asian cars/trucks. I took care of a friend in Tennessee 2 years ago that had cancer. She owned an '14 Accord 4-cyl AT, leather, 4-door. We drove it a lot other than my '06 Mercedes Benz E320 CDI that I drove over from Texas. I honestly don't enjoy how the FWD feels in your hands through the steering wheel, versus my Mercedes RWD. That's something they cannot engineer out of an FWD.
I have to think the Civics are the same? For about $20K, you get a great new Honda. For $50K +/- more, after TT&L, you get a great new Corvette. I guess I think the Corvette is more to my liking in order to part with that $50K.
Chevy ranks 4th, Honda ranks 18th (and below industry average). General Motors Company receives five segment awards for the Buick LaCrosse, Buick Verano, Chevrolet Equinox, Chevrolet Silverado HD and Chevrolet Sonic. Honda receives zero segment awards. They didn't even place a vehicle in the top 3 of any segment..
I doubt that R & T's article will persuade any potential C8 buyer’s to purchase a Veloster N. Will anyone remember the Hyundai’s reveal, or, how it shook up the high-end sports car world?
There's terrific points about the Asian cars/trucks. I took care of a friend in Tennessee 2 years ago that had cancer. She owned an '14 Accord 4-cyl AT, leather, 4-door. We drove it a lot other than my '06 Mercedes Benz E320 CDI that I drove over from Texas. I honestly don't enjoy how the FWD feels in your hands through the steering wheel, versus my Mercedes RWD. That's something they cannot engineer out of an FWD.
FWD works well in the snow, that's about it. BMW has always refused to make FWD because at 10/10ths, you shouldn't steer with the wheels providing drive force. It's asking too much of the tires, AWD can balance some of this by not sending too much to the drive wheels. I would agree, my AMG and all RWD cars have a feel that FWD just can't do. I HATE torque steer, now they have some tricks to help, but if you have any real power it sucks.
I don't know about JD Power, I know Chevy is always bragging about it. Chevy is also discontinuing a bunch of cars. If anyone tells me that Porsches are reliable and cheap to own, that's plainly nuts. I have no doubt that the Lexus is a quality car, I just don't think it's 3 times better than a Honda (and I wouldn't pay twice as much for an Acura either). My mom's got the Lexus Camry, and it's loaded nice but drives nothing special. She likes the status.
I am just saying that it's hard to justify spending more or less for a new car than an Accord. Once you drive one, it's just great. I drove a 3 series before I bought my last Accord and didn't like it any better at nearly twice the cost (actually I didn't like it as well, same for the Acura). But the maintenance costs for a Beemer would be a deal breaker for me (as true for any German car). So far as this FWD vs RWD, when done right I like FWD, particularly Honda and VW (but I would never buy another VW). Most of these RWD sedans really don't want to powerslide (like that slush box 3 series), so RWD offers no more driving pleasure to me. For that matter, I have to turn down the traction control on my C6 to even have fun with that so I can even feel 400lb-ft. So for a normal 4 door car, FWD works quite well, perhaps not true for a Chevy, dunno. And unlike a C8, my Accord has a stick.
I don't know about JD Power, I know Chevy is always bragging about it. Chevy is also discontinuing a bunch of cars. If anyone tells me that Porsches are reliable and cheap to own, that's plainly nuts. I have no doubt that the Lexus is a quality car, I just don't think it's 3 times better than a Honda (and I wouldn't pay twice as much for an Acura either). My mom's got the Lexus Camry, and it's loaded nice but drives nothing special. She likes the status.
I am just saying that it's hard to justify spending more or less for a new car than an Accord. Once you drive one, it's just great. I drove a 3 series before I bought my last Accord and didn't like it any better at nearly twice the cost (actually I didn't like it as well, same for the Acura). But the maintenance costs for a Beemer would be a deal breaker for me (as true for any German car). So far as this FWD vs RWD, when done right I like FWD, particularly Honda and VW (but I would never buy another VW). Most of these RWD sedans really don't want to powerslide (like that slush box 3 series), so RWD offers no more driving pleasure to me. For that matter, I have to turn down the traction control on my C6 to even have fun with that so I can even feel 400lb-ft. So for a normal 4 door car, FWD works quite well, perhaps not true for a Chevy, dunno. And unlike a C8, my Accord has a stick.
Wow your mom has a very special car if she has a Lexus Camry!
W/O the Caveat PCOTY "for the money", their conclusion is preposterous. PCOTY means the best performing car across the board. I could understand if this was an Internet based article (click bait), but to publish ii in a magazine and then defend it leaves me speechless.
W/O the Caveat PCOTY "for the money", their conclusion is preposterous. PCOTY means the best performing car across the board. I could understand if this was an Internet based article (click bait), but to publish ii in a magazine and then defend it leaves me speechless.
I defended R&T through most of the thread but I just got the magazine and it really sucks.
So I might have to say screw the Hyundai. It's not that I hate it (I nearly purchased the Forte 5 Turbo a few years ago) but R&T dedicated the entire magazine to this drivel.
Bottom line is that performance is measured, which is to say it is OBJECTIVE. It is not a subjective “how I feel about driving it” assessment. If the award was called Most Fun Car of the Year, I would have no problem at all. My C7 is a fantastic car and I have no interest in a C8 until I see the wide body. My issue is that the award was called “Performance Car of the Year,” and the winner of that award did not perform better than its competition. What they did is like taking a bunch of doctors and saying “alright, the one who is going to win “Best Doctor of the Year” is the one who has the best patient satisfaction ratings and not the one with the best patient outcomes. The scary thing is that actually affects how docs get paid. I guess that’s how the world is now. It doesn’t matter what your actual tangible results are, but rather how people feel about you. Sorry, but **** that.
Bottom line is that performance is measured, which is to say it is OBJECTIVE. It is not a subjective “how I feel about driving it” assessment. If the award was called Most Fun Car of the Year, I would have no problem at all. My C7 is a fantastic car and I have no interest in a C8 until I see the wide body. My issue is that the award was called “Performance Car of the Year,” and the winner of that award did not perform better than its competition. What they did is like taking a bunch of doctors and saying “alright, the one who is going to win “Best Doctor of the Year” is the one who has the best patient satisfaction ratings and not the one with the best patient outcomes. The scary thing is that actually affects how docs get paid. I guess that’s how the world is now. It doesn’t matter what your actual tangible results are, but rather how people feel about you. Sorry, but **** that.
we've already established the winner performed better in fuel mileage, pollution, every day drivable and cost. It's also one of the few driver's cars with a stick.
Car & Driver does the one lap thing. If you just want to go for a supercar that only is driven 1500 miles a year and eats a set of tires on every track day then go for it.
we've already established the winner performed better in fuel mileage, pollution, every day drivable and cost. It's also one of the few driver's cars with a stick.
Car & Driver does the one lap thing. If you just want to go for a supercar that only is driven 1500 miles a year and eats a set of tires on every track day then go for it.
You’re right. It won in all of those things, none of which have to do with performance. As for daily driving performance cars, I know people who daily drive their gallardos and Huracans. The new Lambos are nothing like the all Italian bulls from before 2002. You can absolutely drive the hell out of them, especially the Huracan RWD. They even come with a 3-year unlimited mile warranty. As for Corvette, I daily drive my Corvette and plenty of C8 owners will daily drive theirs. McLarens are no garage queens either.
You’re right. It won in all of those things, none of which have to do with performance. As for daily driving performance cars, I know people who daily drive their gallardos and Huracans. The new Lambos are nothing like the all Italian bulls from before 2002. You can absolutely drive the hell out of them, especially the Huracan RWD. They even come with a 3-year unlimited mile warranty. As for Corvette, I daily drive my Corvette and plenty of C8 owners will daily drive theirs. McLarens are no garage queens either.
It's just how you define "performance". Certainly fuel mileage is a performance parameter, no question. It's tangible and measurable. The same is true for miles driven, CO2 emissions, and cost. Tangible and measurable.
My C6 is my daily driver and wouldn't trade it for a Lambo or a Hyundai if actually had to drive it daily.
BTW- my C6 is a daily driver, no way would I trade for a Hyundai.
I'd like to know these guys that drive Lambos everyday and pay their maintenance and tire bill. And body damage going into drives. and insurance. The bottomline, this means nothing to anyone in the real world. Perhaps we should include private helicopters in the mix as well? But I suppose the C8 would lose either way? Jack of all trades, master of none?
I defended R&T through most of the thread but I just got the magazine and it really sucks.
So I might have to say screw the Hyundai. It's not that I hate it (I nearly purchased the Forte 5 Turbo a few years ago) but R&T dedicated the entire magazine to this drivel.
And yet you still continue to defend it...
Originally Posted by LowRyter
we've already established the winner performed better in fuel mileage, pollution, every day drivable and cost. It's also one of the few driver's cars with a stick.
Car & Driver does the one lap thing. If you just want to go for a supercar that only is driven 1500 miles a year and eats a set of tires on every track day then go for it.
Originally Posted by LowRyter
It's just how you define "performance". Certainly fuel mileage is a performance parameter, no question. It's tangible and measurable. The same is true for miles driven, CO2 emissions, and cost. Tangible and measurable.
My C6 is my daily driver and wouldn't trade it for a Lambo or a Hyundai if actually had to drive it daily.
BTW- my C6 is a daily driver, no way would I trade for a Hyundai.
I'd like to know these guys that drive Lambos everyday and pay their maintenance and tire bill. And body damage going into drives. and insurance. The bottomline, this means nothing to anyone in the real world. Perhaps we should include private helicopters in the mix as well? But I suppose the C8 would lose either way? Jack of all trades, master of none?
It's just how you define "performance". Certainly fuel mileage is a performance parameter, no question. It's tangible and measurable. The same is true for miles driven, CO2 emissions, and cost. Tangible and measurable.
No, it's how YOU are defining performance and you are 100% wrong. Did the comparison list and discuss all your pathetic definitions of performance? Who would buy a Mclaren or a Lamborghini and discuss any of your tree hugging BS? I can answer it for you, nobody. Zymurgy wasn't summing up your great posts, it was showing how frustrated he is with them. So according to you, the rest of the world is wrong and you are right. Let us all know if you ever get back from fantasy island.
It's just how you define "performance". Certainly fuel mileage is a performance parameter, no question. It's tangible and measurable. The same is true for miles driven, CO2 emissions, and cost. Tangible and measurable.
My C6 is my daily driver and wouldn't trade it for a Lambo or a Hyundai if actually had to drive it daily.
BTW- my C6 is a daily driver, no way would I trade for a Hyundai.
I'd like to know these guys that drive Lambos everyday and pay their maintenance and tire bill. And body damage going into drives. and insurance. The bottomline, this means nothing to anyone in the real world. Perhaps we should include private helicopters in the mix as well? But I suppose the C8 would lose either way? Jack of all trades, master of none?
Performance cars include hot hatches, but all the types included must be able to accelerate quickly and go fast. The corvette does both better. But don’t take my word for it. Here’s a dictionary’s definition. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.col...erformance-car
11-24-2019, 11:16 AM
