Notices
C8 General Discussion The place to discuss the next generation of Corvette.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

If you need a reason to change the oil before 7500 miles here it is…

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-01-2023, 11:35 AM
  #1  
Maxie2U
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
 
Maxie2U's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2015
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 7,923
Received 4,282 Likes on 2,298 Posts
Default If you need a reason to change the oil before 7500 miles here it is…

I decided not to wait until 7500 miles to change my oil. Here’s what is looks like with just 2173 miles! After seeing how black it was I wish I had changed it at 1000 or 1500 miles. It was still very clean at 500 miles.




The following users liked this post:
Ron_Attleboro_MA (02-02-2023)

Popular Reply

02-01-2023, 11:53 AM
RKCRLR
Le Mans Master
 
RKCRLR's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2016
Location: Garden Valley CA
Posts: 9,282
Received 6,265 Likes on 3,440 Posts
Default

You can't tell if oil is good or bad just by the color. Oil can be darker and still be within limits and perfectly functional or it can be more amber but have contaminants or have important wear additives depleted.
The only way to know for sure is an oil analysis.
Old 02-01-2023, 11:53 AM
  #2  
RKCRLR
Le Mans Master
 
RKCRLR's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2016
Location: Garden Valley CA
Posts: 9,282
Received 6,265 Likes on 3,440 Posts
Default

You can't tell if oil is good or bad just by the color. Oil can be darker and still be within limits and perfectly functional or it can be more amber but have contaminants or have important wear additives depleted.
The only way to know for sure is an oil analysis.
The following 17 users liked this post by RKCRLR:
Artarmy (02-02-2023), ATC399 (02-02-2023), BIG Dave (02-02-2023), BLUE1972 (02-03-2023), Fast Dawg (02-02-2023), Flex182 (02-03-2023), jay21 (02-02-2023), keitholcha (02-02-2023), marc4427 (02-02-2023), MM9284 (02-03-2023), Performance nut (02-02-2023), Red C8 of Jax (02-02-2023), SECLT22021 (02-03-2023), thebishman (02-03-2023), thebroz1138 (02-02-2023), theclutch (02-02-2023), wiso (02-03-2023) and 12 others liked this post. (Show less...)
Old 02-01-2023, 11:54 AM
  #3  
z28lt1
Melting Slicks
Support Corvetteforum!
 
z28lt1's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 3,417
Received 2,046 Likes on 1,069 Posts

Default

EDIT: RKCRLR posted while I was typing. Same info, sorry for the dupe...

The color of the oil does not have anything to do with if you need a change or not. Oil (really certain additives in the oil) turn black with heat cycles and oxidation.

Unfortunately, oil can also turn black due to contaminants, so by looking at it you have no idea why it is black. I will say Mobil 1 tends to turn black pretty quickly, which indicates nothing.
The following 10 users liked this post by z28lt1:
Artarmy (02-02-2023), BIG Dave (02-02-2023), ckrueger (02-01-2023), Fishfryer527 (02-01-2023), Foosh (02-01-2023), jay21 (02-02-2023), Red C8 of Jax (02-02-2023), RKCRLR (02-01-2023), tadda (02-01-2023), thebroz1138 (02-02-2023) and 5 others liked this post. (Show less...)
Old 02-01-2023, 11:57 AM
  #4  
Amoreloba
Drifting
 
Amoreloba's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2021
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 1,911
Received 2,544 Likes on 902 Posts
Default

If you need a reason to not believe half of the sensationalist stuff on this forum…
The following 3 users liked this post by Amoreloba:
Artarmy (02-02-2023), ATC399 (02-02-2023), VNAMVET (02-03-2023)
Old 02-01-2023, 12:02 PM
  #5  
Bob Paris
Melting Slicks
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Bob Paris's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2013
Location: Granada Hills CA
Posts: 3,382
Received 2,384 Likes on 1,067 Posts

Default



Simply Prune
Old 02-01-2023, 12:09 PM
  #6  
RKCRLR
Le Mans Master
 
RKCRLR's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2016
Location: Garden Valley CA
Posts: 9,282
Received 6,265 Likes on 3,440 Posts
Default

You also didn't state how much time was on the oil. Time after first exposure to engine contaminants is also a factor. Shorter trips with fewer miles will take it's toll on oil over time and allow more absorption of contaminants. That's why nearly all manufacturers require oil changes after a year regardless of mileage.
Old 02-01-2023, 12:10 PM
  #7  
Mark9
Pro
 
Mark9's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2022
Location: Western Mass
Posts: 549
Received 662 Likes on 294 Posts
Default

Send it out for analysis and see what you get back. Do the same on your next oil change and see if there's any appreciable difference and what the oil analysis folks tell you on the report. I agree with the above on "color doesn't mean bad". Now if that were the DCT fluid at 7500 miles I'd be more "interested".
The following 3 users liked this post by Mark9:
Fishfryer527 (02-01-2023), jay21 (02-02-2023), VinDieselJetta (02-02-2023)
Old 02-01-2023, 12:10 PM
  #8  
Mike's LS3
Safety Car
 
Mike's LS3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2007
Location: Bay Area CA
Posts: 4,303
Received 736 Likes on 475 Posts

Default

Looks like the oil detergents are doing their job.
A touch, visual and smell inspection can determine cylinder fuel wash down or coolant intrusion. Oil analysis would take the guesswork out of it.
The following users liked this post:
GLFMAN (02-01-2023)
Old 02-01-2023, 03:08 PM
  #9  
SoCal C8
Burning Brakes
 
SoCal C8's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2021
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 1,147
Received 1,283 Likes on 538 Posts
Default

I love oil threads…..it’s been awhile since we’ve had one.

The following 4 users liked this post by SoCal C8:
MarkMeHopeful (02-02-2023), p4snow (02-02-2023), Wife said I could (02-01-2023), WishfulThinker23 (02-01-2023)
Old 02-01-2023, 03:10 PM
  #10  
tadda
Le Mans Master

 
tadda's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2018
Location: Dove Mountain, AZ
Posts: 5,153
Received 7,013 Likes on 2,701 Posts
2023 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Default

The following 3 users liked this post by tadda:
ATC399 (02-02-2023), MikeinAZ (02-02-2023), N2TU (02-02-2023)
Old 02-01-2023, 03:18 PM
  #11  
Sandman_73
Instructor
 
Sandman_73's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2022
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 184
Received 88 Likes on 51 Posts
Default

If color determined condition my Duramax oil would be toast in 100mi. 🤣
The following 6 users liked this post by Sandman_73:
Bozdx (02-03-2023), jay21 (02-02-2023), keitholcha (02-02-2023), langhorne_bill (02-01-2023), SECLT22021 (02-03-2023), THX_ZORA (02-02-2023) and 1 others liked this post. (Show less...)
Old 02-01-2023, 03:29 PM
  #12  
JDSC8VETTE
Melting Slicks
 
JDSC8VETTE's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,637
Received 2,901 Likes on 1,162 Posts
Default

After seeing this thread I’m going to change my oil and filter every other week from now on. I might even change it a couple times while it’s in winter storage.
The following 9 users liked this post by JDSC8VETTE:
JABCAT (02-01-2023), JTBogus (02-01-2023), keitholcha (02-02-2023), marc4427 (02-02-2023), MikeinAZ (02-02-2023), p4snow (02-02-2023), SECLT22021 (02-03-2023), thebroz1138 (02-02-2023), Tx_94vette (02-02-2023) and 4 others liked this post. (Show less...)
Old 02-01-2023, 03:32 PM
  #13  
JDSC8VETTE
Melting Slicks
 
JDSC8VETTE's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,637
Received 2,901 Likes on 1,162 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Mark9
Send it out for analysis and see what you get back. Do the same on your next oil change and see if there's any appreciable difference and what the oil analysis folks tell you on the report. I agree with the above on "color doesn't mean bad". Now if that were the DCT fluid at 7500 miles I'd be more "interested".
Another option is to just change it when the car tells you and don’t send anything to anyone for anything.
The following 5 users liked this post by JDSC8VETTE:
bikemiser (01-08-2024), Dave O (02-01-2023), p4snow (02-02-2023), Ray of sunshine (02-01-2023), Wife said I could (02-01-2023)
Old 02-01-2023, 03:37 PM
  #14  
Foosh
Team Owner
 
Foosh's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,434
Received 16,674 Likes on 8,313 Posts

Default

Yep, unless you plan to go for 100K miles or more in your C8, just change the oil every year or 7500 miles, whichever comes first, and you should be just fine. A lot of folks make things much more complicated than they need to be.
The following 3 users liked this post by Foosh:
85vetteguy (02-01-2023), Joe’s Z06 (02-01-2023), Maxie2U (02-02-2023)
Old 02-01-2023, 03:43 PM
  #15  
Dcdangerz
Advanced
 
Dcdangerz's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 85
Received 42 Likes on 24 Posts

Default

Change engine oil at 4000 unless your tracking half the time then go to 2500.
Run quality gasoline, this will have an equal effect as mileage on your oil.
Check the air filter every other oil change.

Maintenance is cheap compared to a long block replacement or valve job.
The following 2 users liked this post by Dcdangerz:
Mark9 (02-01-2023), Maxie2U (02-02-2023)
Old 02-01-2023, 03:58 PM
  #16  
BADBIRDCAGE
Le Mans Master
Support Corvetteforum!
 
BADBIRDCAGE's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: Del Boca Vista FL
Posts: 9,678
Received 1,983 Likes on 1,062 Posts

Default

WTF do people do to make their oil look like that at such low mileage? I could see the dipstick clearly through the golden honey colored oil in my 2020 at just over 8,000 miles when it got the first oil change.
Old 02-01-2023, 05:07 PM
  #17  
paco04
Instructor
 
paco04's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2008
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 165
Received 111 Likes on 56 Posts

Default

Lots of Idling?

Get notified of new replies

To If you need a reason to change the oil before 7500 miles here it is…

Old 02-01-2023, 08:10 PM
  #18  
bhvrdr
Safety Car
 
bhvrdr's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2019
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,080
Received 2,354 Likes on 1,214 Posts
Default

My oil looked the same with 1500 miles on it.
Old 02-01-2023, 09:14 PM
  #19  
Red Mist Rulz
Race Director
 
Red Mist Rulz's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2016
Posts: 11,255
Received 8,640 Likes on 4,323 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Foosh
Yep, unless you plan to go for 100K miles or more in your C8, just change the oil every year or 7500 miles, whichever comes first, and you should be just fine. A lot of folks make things much more complicated than they need to be.
If you follow the OLM, the engine will still last for more than 100,000 miles. You're right, some folks do make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Some info about how the OLM works, and the safety margin built into it:

One thing I can touch on and clear up.....the GM oil life monitor operation and my statement that ZDP (or ZDDP as you tend to call it here...most of the API literature just sticks to ZDP so I tend to use that) depletion is the basis for oildeterioration.
My spelling is poor but ZDP stands for zinc dialkyldithiophosphate which , as it sounds, is an anti-wear compound comprised of zinc and phosphorus.

ZDP is dispersed in the oil so as to be at a potential wear site if a surface asperity happens to break thru the oil film thickness causing the dreaded metal-to-metal contact. A molecule of ZDP must be present at that moment to prevent microwelding at the contact site which will cause material transfer, scuffing, scoring, wear and catostrophic failure. The concentration of ZDP in the oil will determine if there is ZDP present to work it's magic. The greater the concentration...the more likely a molecule of ZDP will be there...and vice versa.

By nature, ZDP is sacrifical. As ZDP is "used up" at a wear site to prevent micorwelding the concentration of ZDP decreases.... So...if you measure the ZDP concentration in engine oil in a running engine it will decrease at linear rate based on engine revolutions. Any given engine has a certain number of high potential wear areas where metal-to-metal contact could occur due to reduced film thickness and/or surface asperities....areas such as rubbing element cam followers, distributor gears, rocker arm pivots, push rod tips, etc...... The more of these areas the more ZDP depletion. The more often these features come in contact the greater the ZDP depletion. That is why, generally speaking, ZDP concentration in the oil, for any given engine, will decrease at a fairly linear rate when plotted versus cummulative engine revolutions. The more times it turns the more contact the more chance for wear the greater the depletion. This is as much of a fact as I could quote ever and is really not speculation or anything. It is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in many studies. That is why it is ONE of the basis for determining oil life remaining and why it is THE basic premis of the GM oil life algorithm. It is only ONE of the things that determines oil life...but it is the one thing that can be tied to engine operation in a linear fashion and estimated very accurately by accumulating engine revolutions via a counter.

The GM engine oil life monitor counts engine revolutions and accumulates the number for the basis of the oil life calculation. It then adds deterioration factors for operating temperature, start up temperature, soak times, ambient, coolant temperature, etc... There are a LOT of factors that "adjust" or affect the slope of the deterioration but the fundamental deterioration is traced back to the ZDP depletion that is inescapable with engine revolutions. The specific rate of ZDP depletion is readily measurable for any given engine so that is the fundamental item that is first calibrated for the oil life algorithm to tailor it specifically to that engine.

You would obviously like to get the oil out of the engine before the ZDP concentration gets so low that it is ineffective at being at the right place at the right time and preventing engine wear so that becomes the long term limit on oil life for that application.

The other things that determine oil life such a acid build up, oxidation, petane insuluables such as silicon from dust/dirt, carbon or soot build up from the EGR in blowby, water contamination, fuel contamination, etc.... are all modeled by the multipliers or deterioration factors that "adjust" the immediate slope of the line defined by the engine revolution counter as those items can be modeled in other ways and accounted for in the immediate slope of the ZDP depletion line.

The algorithm was developed over the course of many years by several lubrication experts at GM Fuels and Lubes, spearheaded by Doctor Shirley Schwartz who holds the patents (with GM) for the algorithm and the oil life monitor. I had the luck of working directly with Dr. Schwartz when the idea of the oil life monitor first progressed from the theoretical/lab stage to real world testing/development/validation. There were fleets of cars operated under all conditions that deteriorate the oil life for any and every reason and , thru oil sampling and detailed analysis of the oilcondition, the algorithm was developed, fine tuned and validated to be the most accurate way invented yet to recommend an oil change interval by. As just one example, I have seen cars driven side-by-side on trips, one towing a trailer and one not, for instance, to prove the effectiveness of the oil life monitor in deteriorating the oil at a faster rate just because of the higher load, higher average RPM, higher temps, etc...and it works flawlessly.

The oil life monitor is so effective because: it is customized for that specific vehicle/engine, it takes everything into account that deteriorates the oil, it is ALWAYS working so as to take into account THAT INDIVIDUALS driving schedule, and it tailors the oil change to that schedule and predicts, on an ongoing basis, the oil life remaining so that that specific individual can plan an oil change accordingly. No other system can do this that effectively.

One thing is that I know personally from years of testing and thousands of oil analysis that the oil life algorithm works. There is simply no argument to the contrary. If you don't believe me, fine, but, trust me, it works. It is accurate because it has been calibrated for each specific engine it is installed on and there is considerable testing and validation of the oil life monitor on that specific application. Not something that oil companies or Amsoil do. They generalize....the oil life monitor is very specific for that application. Oil condition sensors in some BMW and Mercedes products are useful, also. They have their limitations, though, as they can be blind to some contaminates and can, themselves, be contaminated by certain markers or constituents of certain engine oils. Oil condition sensors can only react to the specific oil at that moment and they add complexity, cost and another potential item to fail. One other beauty of the GM oil life monitor is that it is all software and does not add any mechanical complexity, mass, wiring or potential failure mechanism.

There is considerable safety factor in the GM oil life monitor. Typically, I would say, there is a 2:1 safety factor in the slope of the ZDP depletion curve....in other words, zero percent oil life per the ZDP depletion is not zero ZDP but twice the concentration of ZDP considered critical for THAT engine to operate under all conditions reliably with no wear. This is always a subject of discussion as to just how low do you want the ZDP to get before the oil is "worn out" if this is the deciding factor for oil life. We would tend to be on the conservative side. If the oil life is counting down on a slope that would recommend a 10K change interval then there is probably 20K oil life before the ZDP is catostrophically depleted....not that you would want to go there...but reason why many people are successful in running those change intervals.

There are entire SAE papers written on the GM oil life monitor and one could write a book on it so it is hard to touch on all aspects of it in a single post. Hopefully we hit the high spots. Realize that a GREAT deal of time, work and energy went into developing the oil life monitor and it has received acclaim from engineering organizations, petroleum organizations, environmental groups all across the board. It is not some widget invented in a week and tacked onto the car."
Originally Posted by Dcdanger
Change engine oil at 4000 unless your tracking half the time then go to 2500.


Maintenance is cheap compared to a long block replacement or valve job.
Good advice if you like wasting your money.
The following 5 users liked this post by Red Mist Rulz:
Maxie2U (02-02-2023), MIW RT (02-02-2023), RKCRLR (02-02-2023), RonBeau (02-01-2023), TNBatmobile (02-02-2023)
Old 02-01-2023, 09:20 PM
  #20  
aquake
Instructor
 
aquake's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2014
Posts: 203
Received 141 Likes on 84 Posts
Default

Looks like you changed it too soon, still says it's best before March lol


Quick Reply: If you need a reason to change the oil before 7500 miles here it is…



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:07 PM.