Z Mode vs Track Mode
07-17-2023, 09:42 AM
#41
I have literally never seen that light before probably because I've never driven the car outside of z mode with transmission set to track. This appears to lock it in that most aggressive performance shift setting as my transmission shift behavior does not change whether on a road course or driving across the state on a trip. It's always performance shifting which depends on things like brake pressure (for how aggressive the downshifts are) and throttle pressure (for holding gears). It's predictable though unlike in other modes where you can be placed in and out of performance shifting algorithm without you selecting it
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bhvrdr (07-17-2023)
07-17-2023, 10:02 AM
#42
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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As usual Andy you have done a very thorough job of playing Lawyer and going thru the Owner's Manual!Quoting a key point:
"On page 211, Throttle Progression and AFM are described as "presets" of the engine/shift setting - that is - by adjusting engine/shift setting, the throttle progression and AFM behavior are modified. On page 212, the engine/shift setting is described as controlling throttle response, gear shifting and engine performance. So putting together the pieces that are attributable to the engine/shift setting we have engine/shift controls throttle progression, AFM behavior, gear shifting, and engine performance."
Funny, when placing a Hold-A-Sport order for my C8 in July 2019 I recalled a statement about Throttle Progression that "sounded like" in Z-Mode set to Track for Power it was the fastest as if in Track Mode. Because of the issue I had with my 2017 Grand Sport where because I did not Drive in Track Mode (because of the stiff Ride) as I had my non MRC 2014 Z51, Throttle Progression was significantly slower when I drove in Touring to get about the ride I had in my non MRC 2014 Z51. Thought no downside at all with MRC Option in the C8 and got it for the transient handling benefits.
From what you found with Z-Mode Power Set in Track (in my case Ride set to Sport) is Throttle Progression as I thought, in Track?
07-17-2023, 10:18 AM
#43
Was that a rhetorical question? Anyway, yes I believe that with Engine/Shift set to track, that throttle progression is set to Track. I consider that to be explicit in the table on page 210 of the 2023 manual. The only features that are not clear are the references to "engine valve timing" in the description of the Track Driver Mode, and the "engine performance" in the description of the engine/shift setting, because neither appears in the list of "attributes" in the table on page 210, and neither term is further explained anywhere else in the manual.
07-17-2023, 11:49 AM
#44
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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^^^
No it was a question because in prior forum discussions it was argued it was not and ONLY set in Track Mode is the Throttle Progression at the fastest setting!
Frankly with the way they have written the Owner's Manual I was not going to argue. Thanks for your effort to find those sections and your comment!
Jerry
No it was a question because in prior forum discussions it was argued it was not and ONLY set in Track Mode is the Throttle Progression at the fastest setting!Frankly with the way they have written the Owner's Manual I was not going to argue. Thanks for your effort to find those sections and your comment!
Jerry
07-17-2023, 12:11 PM
#45
^^^
No it was a question because in prior forum discussions it was argued it was not and ONLY set in Track Mode is the Throttle Progression at the fastest setting!
Frankly with the way they have written the Owner's Manual I was not going to argue. Thanks for your effort to find those sections and your comment!
Jerry
No it was a question because in prior forum discussions it was argued it was not and ONLY set in Track Mode is the Throttle Progression at the fastest setting!Frankly with the way they have written the Owner's Manual I was not going to argue. Thanks for your effort to find those sections and your comment!
Jerry
And I believe there is a difference between throttle progression and actual available engine performance. I believe engine performance refers to available torque and available peak power. And, I note the two (throttle response and engine performance) are separately identified as being controlled by the engine shift setting. And the Track Driver Mode is described as changing the engine valve timing, which would be related to available torque and/or peak power. Of course there are other things like fuel trim and ignition timing that also affect engine performance. Its unlcear (actually unstated) as to exactly what is changed with those settings.
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JerryU (07-17-2023)
07-17-2023, 09:27 PM
#47
I think you might be right about performance shift being always active in track mode. I tested it today and in z-mode when taking the same turn as track will sometimes stay in 3rd gear where track mode always down shifts to 2nd gear and will hold 2nd gear longer.
07-17-2023, 10:07 PM
#48
I've seen the performance shift Icon when spirited driving on the highway in z-mode set to track. I think you might be right about performance shift being always active in track mode. I tested it today and in z-mode when taking the same turn as track will sometimes stay in 3rd gear where track mode always down shifts to 2nd gear and will hold 2nd gear longer.
I have literally never seen that light before probably because I've never driven the car outside of z mode with transmission set to track. This appears to lock it in that most aggressive performance shift setting as my transmission shift behavior does not change whether on a road course or driving across the state on a trip. It's always performance shifting which depends on things like brake pressure (for how aggressive the downshifts are) and throttle pressure (for holding gears). It's predictable though unlike in other modes where you can be placed in and out of performance shifting algorithm without you selecting it
07-17-2023, 10:29 PM
#49
"Display Themes...........
.. Sport/Z-Mode: Displays Coolant
Temperature, Fuel Gauge, Compass, Drive
Mode Indicator, Odometer, Speed,
Tachometer, Electronic Transmission
Range, Current Gear, Active Fuel
Management (AFM), Peak Performance,
Performance Shift Lights, Speed Limit, Info
Area, and Interaction Area.
07-17-2023, 10:47 PM
#50
Safety Car
Actually, I don't think I said Performance Shift is always active in Track Mode or at least I did not mean to say that. I think it was @bhvrdr that said something like that (see below quote). I'm not really sure, but I believe folks observations. Track Mode description in the 2023 Manual actually says "In this mode the vehicle also monitors driving behaviors and automatically enables Performance Shift features when spirited driving is detected.These features maintain lower transmission gears to increase available engine braking and improve acceleration response. The vehicle will exit this feature and return to normal operation after a short time when spirited driving is no longer detected." It is essentially the same as the statement for "driver influenced gear selection" which "are effective in all driving modes, however the aggressiveness of the transmission response will increase between Tour, Sport, and Track Modes respectively". My original point in bringing it up was just the manual seems to be using different names for what appear to be the same functions and light. But others have also reported that it seems to be in that performance shift mode all the time in Track mode.
It's possible the shifting could get slightly less aggressive in track setting depending on driving style but it will never let it sit at 1200rpm like touring mode.
07-18-2023, 09:09 PM
#51
Most think not. But I will not dispute your observation. I have looked through the 2023 Owners Manual for any clue about what could possibly be different. I found one item, but its ambiguous at best.
Now, here comes the one possible thing that is different in Track Driver Mode. The Track Driver Mode description says it modifies "exhaust valve tuning". That particular item is not in the list of Driver Mode Attributes, and in fact does not appear anywhere else in the manual. Is it unique to Track Driver Mode - or is it just part of what is meant by "engine performance" selected by the engine/shift setting? Its ambiguous in my view. I think most will say its just part of the engine/shift setting. I have no basis to dispute that.
Now, here comes the one possible thing that is different in Track Driver Mode. The Track Driver Mode description says it modifies "exhaust valve tuning". That particular item is not in the list of Driver Mode Attributes, and in fact does not appear anywhere else in the manual. Is it unique to Track Driver Mode - or is it just part of what is meant by "engine performance" selected by the engine/shift setting? Its ambiguous in my view. I think most will say its just part of the engine/shift setting. I have no basis to dispute that.
07-19-2023, 06:01 AM
#53
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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So, I believe that throttle progression refers to how the flap in the throttle body responds to the throttle pedal (along with the necessary adjustments to other engine parameters to accommodate the selected flap position). So one curve might have the throttle body flap open to 50% when the pedal is half way down. Another more progressive response might have the throttle body flap open 75% when the pedal is half way down. And that would be "faster" throttle progression (right?) And it would result in the perception of a more responsive engine even though available engine performance remains unchanged (or could remain unchanged).
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I had an issue only when taking off with my Grand Sport with the initial MRC software that I had to drive in Touring to match the ride I had for 3 1/2 years with my non-MRC C7 Z51 I always drove on Track Mode. That had no effect on ride and I got the fastest throttle progression and least nannie intervention. I added a Throttle controller and set mid-way as they stated it was a linear pedal to throttle response. That setting felt like my non-MRC C7 in Track. I referred to their highest setting as "Boy Racer" where a ~40% gas pedal depression was ~75% Throttle opening.
Funny for my 1st car where I installed an Olds engine replacing the flathead had a similar issue as the Boy Racer setting! The OHV Olds was higher than the flathead. Too get the throttle linkage to clear the much higher Olds intake manifold I had an extension brazed to the pedal linkage. Wound up with instead of like 1 1/2-inch gas pedal movement from idle to WOT it was only ~3/4 inches. Very touchy but got used to it!
Last edited by JerryU; 07-19-2023 at 06:10 AM.