Notices
C8 Stingray/General Discussion The place to discuss the next generation of Corvette including the Stingray.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Wheel Design

Servicing mid engine

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 03:47 PM
  #61  
RapidC84B's Avatar
RapidC84B
Team Owner
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 22,598
Likes: 14,559
Default

Originally Posted by TheSenator
Who's ready for $3,000 motor dropped cam-only swaps?
You already have to pull the motor do do a cam on a LT1. Yes I know some do it in car, but they drop the cradle and the oil pan and it's a huge PITA. All the major shops yank the engine. It sure isn't like the LS1/6.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 03:50 PM
  #62  
Sin City's Avatar
Sin City
Le Mans Master
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,671
Likes: 4,144
2020 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Default

Originally Posted by Shaka
Give a brief overview of your contention.
Over the years, the idea of mid engine cars are more and more common. But most (which are primarily Italian and German) need to have enlarged cooling because the engine is at the back, improved heat protection, more complicated controls, reinforced front ends for crash protection, complicated packaging of the intake and exhaust, and exotic suspensions to fit in the space. Something like replacing the alternator or starter motor can be a huge pain in the rump.

In many cases Mid engine cars need the entire engine removed for servicing. Some are easy, others are really difficult. All take more time and labor to do as well as replace parts that need to be replaced while you are there. Do a clutch in a Ferrari 308 and you might as well replace the timing belts, bearings, oil seals, and water pump at the same time.

Many times, in an effort to make the engine and gearbox in a tighter package than what is available space up front, they use exotic engineering that is more costly to make and assemble, as well as repair if needed. Engines are often transverse mounted to make the length of the engine and gearbox shorter.

As to training, I also offer the Ferrari 328. There are two drain plugs on the bottom. One is engine oil and one is gearbox oil. They look pretty much identical. One is easy to find, the other takes a bit of searching. I can't tell you how many backyard mechanics have drained the gearbox oil and then overfilled the engine oil by removing the wrong plug.

Working on Mid engine cars is just more complicated and difficult, which is why the preferred method today is drop the entire subframe and work on everything separated from the car. That's rare on front engine cars.

Last edited by Sin City; Apr 16, 2019 at 04:36 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 04:21 PM
  #63  
Warp Factor's Avatar
Warp Factor
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
Conversation Starter
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
Default

Originally Posted by TheSenator
Who's ready for $3,000 motor dropped cam-only swaps?
A cam swap? If the C8 dosen't come with a removable panel between the passenger and engine compartment, just about any local hardware store has hole-saws.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 05:08 PM
  #64  
jcp911s's Avatar
jcp911s
Melting Slicks
10 Year Member
Top Answer: 1
Top Answer: 3
Top Answer: 5
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,599
Likes: 1,593
Default

Originally Posted by Warp Factor
A cam swap? If the C8 dosen't come with a removable panel between the passenger and engine compartment, just about any local hardware store has hole-saws.
Yup. Every time I buy a new car, the first thing I do when I get it home is a cam swap...warranty-smarranty...then I drink a six-pack of beer.

Ya don't even have to go to the hardware store neither... why I just went right down the street to Walmart... there were hole-saws all over the place.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 05:59 PM
  #65  
BLUE1972's Avatar
BLUE1972
Race Director
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Top Answer: 5
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,295
Likes: 1,681
From: Long Island
Default

If I remember right , drilling a hole in the inner fender / wheel-well was the first thing you did to change the plugs on a 69 - 70 Cougar,,

Then put in a rubber plug...
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 06:20 PM
  #66  
ladder13's Avatar
ladder13
Melting Slicks
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,469
Likes: 839
From: NC
Default

Since I won’t be buying for at least one year, probably two, I’ll wait to hear what Paul Koerner and Brittany George have to say.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 06:33 PM
  #67  
invadermoose's Avatar
invadermoose
Instructor
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 28
Default

Ignore absolutely everyone saying you need a lift to work on a mid engine car. Just isnt true. Get 6-ton jack stands and you can do whatever you want. Also pulling an engine isnt hard.

Last edited by invadermoose; Apr 16, 2019 at 06:34 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 06:43 PM
  #68  
MikeG37's Avatar
MikeG37
Drifting
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 789
From: Hernando MS
Default

After doing the clutch and torque tube bushings & bearings in a C5 (be about the same in a 6 or 7) dropping an engine don't seem like that big a deal.
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

10 Corvettes to Drive Before You Die!

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

Corvette & Porsche 911: How Two Icons Conquered the Last 25 Years

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

2027 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 First Look: Everything You NEED to Know!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-3

5 Best & 5 Worst Corvette Daily Drivers

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

The Headlights of Every Corvette Generation Explained

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

5 Best & 5 Most Overrated Corvette Track Packages of All Time!

 Joe Kucinski
story-6

Every 2027 Corvette Engine Explained

 Joe Kucinski
story-7

Designer Imagines A Corvette That Looks More Like a Corvette Than the Corvette

 Verdad Gallardo
story-8

10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

 Joe Kucinski
story-9

Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

 Brett Foote
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 07:05 PM
  #69  
rgregory's Avatar
rgregory
Race Director
25 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 115
From: Arlington TX
Default

Originally Posted by Sin City
Completely wrong. Mid engine cars (and I've owned about 8 of them) are far more complicated to engineer, maintain, and repair than their front engine counterparts.
But what do you need to service often in newer cars? My Tahoe has a GM engine and it has 199k miles and only things ever changed on the engine are oil, spark plugs, oil/air filters and once the coolant. It still has the original serpentine belt on it.

One of the spark plugs on the Tahoe is kind of a pain to get to. I can actually change the plugs on my mid-engine Gallardo easier, 62k miles on it and nothing but the same thing replaced on the engine as the Tahoe.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 07:13 PM
  #70  
heavymetals's Avatar
heavymetals
Drifting
Supporting Lifetime
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 27
From: Torrance Calif
Default

Originally Posted by invadermoose
Ignore absolutely everyone saying you need a lift to work on a mid engine car. Just isnt true. Get 6-ton jack stands and you can do whatever you want. Also pulling an engine isnt hard.
You need a lift just to remove the exhaust from a C5!
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 07:46 PM
  #71  
rgregory's Avatar
rgregory
Race Director
25 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 115
From: Arlington TX
Default

Originally Posted by heavymetals
You need a lift just to remove the exhaust from a C5!
not true. I swapped the 2000 FRC I had exhaust twice and I do not own a lift.

Also I took the transmission out of my Tahoe last year to rebuild it without a lift.

Last edited by rgregory; Apr 16, 2019 at 07:47 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 09:40 PM
  #72  
Pisswilly's Avatar
Pisswilly
Melting Slicks
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,250
Likes: 938
From: Wisconsin
Default

Tech told me C8 is “lubed for life”, requires no oil changes!
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 11:03 PM
  #73  
heavymetals's Avatar
heavymetals
Drifting
Supporting Lifetime
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 27
From: Torrance Calif
Default

Originally Posted by rgregory
not true. I swapped the 2000 FRC I had exhaust twice and I do not own a lift.

Also I took the transmission out of my Tahoe last year to rebuild it without a lift.
Yeah and how high did you end up jacking it up or did you have a trench underneath?

You have to get a C5 almost four feet off the ground to snake the exhaust out from the rear bend.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 11:05 PM
  #74  
jefnvk's Avatar
jefnvk
Melting Slicks
 
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 1,024
From: AA/Metro Detroit
Default

Originally Posted by rgregory
One of the spark plugs on the Tahoe is kind of a pain to get to. I can actually change the plugs on my mid-engine Gallardo easier, 62k miles on it and nothing but the same thing replaced on the engine as the Tahoe.
I remember service manuals telling me to pull the steering column to get to a spark plug on my S10 Blazer, and to cut a hole in the fender liner to get to another.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 11:05 PM
  #75  
invadermoose's Avatar
invadermoose
Instructor
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 28
Default

Originally Posted by heavymetals
Yeah and how high did you end up jacking it up or did you have a trench underneath?

You have to get a C5 almost four feet off the ground to snake the exhaust out from the rear bend.
What? No you dont. I'm not sure what else to say, but you just dont. You just have to tilt it to the right/left and you can remove it with very little lift.

Last edited by invadermoose; Apr 16, 2019 at 11:06 PM.
Reply
Old Apr 16, 2019 | 11:12 PM
  #76  
heavymetals's Avatar
heavymetals
Drifting
Supporting Lifetime
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 27
From: Torrance Calif
Default

Originally Posted by invadermoose
What? No you dont. I'm not sure what else to say, but you just dont. You just have to tilt it to the right/left and you can remove it with very little lift.
This is the way I know works.

https://tech.corvettecentral.com/201...-installation/
Reply
Old Apr 17, 2019 | 06:36 AM
  #77  
PerKr's Avatar
PerKr
Racer
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 419
Likes: 140
Default

Changing oil probably will not be any harder. Same goes for brake jobs. And if they went with a clamshell design for the rear lid maybe changing sparkplugs will not be that hard either. Basically look at a modern ferrari or an audi r8 and that's about how complex service will be. The Ferrari 360 for instance doesn't require an engine out service as belts are accessed through the firewall, as opposed to its predecessors. But yes, it is likely that some things will be harder to get to. It is also likely that GM will consider the corvette a bit more upmarket and raise servicing prices accordingly (after all, they will be compared directly to the Audi R8 on this, not to the camaro).
Reply

Get notified of new replies

To Servicing mid engine

Old Apr 17, 2019 | 06:58 AM
  #78  
Warp Factor's Avatar
Warp Factor
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
Conversation Starter
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
Default

I'd expect that dropping the power train on a C8 might be easier than on a C5-7, since it's all one unit, and nothing needs to be done at the other end of the car.

Depending on the design of the exhaust manifolds, spark plugs might be pretty accessible from underneath the car.
Reply
Old Apr 17, 2019 | 07:00 AM
  #79  
tobaccokid's Avatar
tobaccokid
Burning Brakes
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 853
Likes: 388
Default

All things being equal, of course it is more expensive to service a mid engine car. The drivetrain is more highly integrated into the car’s structure. Whether it somewhat more expensive or much more expensive is a separate discussion depending upon a specific car’s design. Access alone can easily be more *** cumbersome.
Reply
Old Apr 17, 2019 | 07:24 AM
  #80  
lt4obsesses's Avatar
lt4obsesses
Le Mans Master
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 482
From: H-Town Texas
Default

Originally Posted by 1985 Vette
Old Buckeye is asking a VERY good question, that seems to be getting ignored. Will a mid engine Corvette require engine removal for spark plus? A $500 oil change? Chevrolet will eventually need to supply this information, as this will be a big consideration on whether I will ever buy a mid engine Vette.
It is a good question, while, at the moment an unanswerable one. We can pretty much guess that the real issue will be accessibility. Between the placement of the engine, and the laying of components in the engine bay, simple maintenance items may take longer. A good illustration, while not going in the Corvette, is the Cadillac Hot V engine. By appearance, it looks like the intercoolers would need to be removed to do anything like a spark plug and coil pack change. That would require draining coolant and dismantling the assembly and of course replacing all the associated gaskets etc. What similar challenges the C8 technician will face are yet unknown, but they will be there.

On the flip side, understand, that while the technicians may argue the point at times, manufacturers have a vested interest in minimalizing the overall cost of warranty work. If, for example, removing the engine is going to almost always be required, then, they will most likely make dropping the cradle as simple as possible.

As far as parts, the good news is that this is a mass produced car, and contracts and par levels for parts have already been decided. So it won't be like they are one off, hand built individual pieces of art. If the transmission goes out, it won't be like you'll have to wait 6 months for GM to hand build you a new one.

But things like oil changes, which will be about all most people will face at least for the first few years, will be addressed in design. I would almost bet that the C8 will be exclusively dry sump system.

Last edited by lt4obsesses; Apr 17, 2019 at 07:28 AM.
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:33 PM.

story-0
10 Corvettes to Drive Before You Die!

Slideshow: 10 Corvettes to drive before you die.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-23 08:31:12


VIEW MORE
story-1
Corvette & Porsche 911: How Two Icons Conquered the Last 25 Years

Slideshow: Corvette and Porsche 911, how two icons conquered the last 25 years.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-23 08:18:33


VIEW MORE
story-2
2027 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 First Look: Everything You NEED to Know!

Slideshow: Is the 2027 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 the best Silverado yet?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-06-16 08:01:12


VIEW MORE
story-3
5 Best & 5 Worst Corvette Daily Drivers

Slideshow: 5 best and 5 worst Corvette daily drivers

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-15 10:32:13


VIEW MORE
story-4
The Headlights of Every Corvette Generation Explained

Slideshow: The headlights of every Corvette generation explained

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-15 10:17:14


VIEW MORE
story-5
5 Best & 5 Most Overrated Corvette Track Packages of All Time!

Slideshow: The 5 best and 5 most overrated Corvette track packages ever.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-09 12:46:45


VIEW MORE
story-6
Every 2027 Corvette Engine Explained

Slideshow: Every 2027 Corvette engine explained

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-09 12:16:31


VIEW MORE
story-7
Designer Imagines A Corvette That Looks More Like a Corvette Than the Corvette

Slideshow: A Jaguar designer's personal project imagines what a modern front-engined Corvette might look like if Chevrolet revisited the golden age of the Stingray.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-06-08 19:53:43


VIEW MORE
story-8
10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

Slideshow: 10 ugly Corvettes that we still kinda love.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-03 10:34:17


VIEW MORE
story-9
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

A lot of money has changed hands at the online auction house over the years.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-03 10:21:50


VIEW MORE