Servicing mid engine
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,535
Likes: 115
From: Arlington TX
now that you mention that my parents had a 1991 Z28 and I think we never even changed one of the back plugs because it was just too hard to get too. So I am not sure what people are worried about mid engine being hard to work on.... anycar can be made hard to work on.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,535
Likes: 115
From: Arlington TX
normal flat garage floor, normal large home jack and jack stands. I did this like 17 years ago and did it twice so yes it can be done.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,900
Likes: 1,841
From: Hot Springs AR
Have a good one,
Mike
Racer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 471
Likes: 62
From: Caliente Houston Tejas
4 Choices
If one is worried about “servicing” the new mid engine C8 your choices are pretty much laid out already:
Im sure, 5-8 years from now, that there will be plenty of jack stand warriors that will do complete builds via jack stands on a C8. While it’s not my cup of tea (working under jack stands) I’ve definitely “been there - done that” albeit I was a lot younger with a lot of time/energy (though a lot less money! LOL).
- Let The dealer do it
- Join the “jack stand” mafia
- Put a lift in (best “tool” I have in my garage!)
- DON’T buy the mid engine Vette
Im sure, 5-8 years from now, that there will be plenty of jack stand warriors that will do complete builds via jack stands on a C8. While it’s not my cup of tea (working under jack stands) I’ve definitely “been there - done that” albeit I was a lot younger with a lot of time/energy (though a lot less money! LOL).
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,671
Likes: 4,144
2020 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Changing oil probably will not be any harder. Same goes for brake jobs. And if they went with a clamshell design for the rear lid maybe changing sparkplugs will not be that hard either. Basically look at a modern ferrari or an audi r8 and that's about how complex service will be. The Ferrari 360 for instance doesn't require an engine out service as belts are accessed through the firewall, as opposed to its predecessors. But yes, it is likely that some things will be harder to get to. It is also likely that GM will consider the corvette a bit more upmarket and raise servicing prices accordingly (after all, they will be compared directly to the Audi R8 on this, not to the camaro).
The annual service on an F430 was 13 hours. On a 458 it was 2. Ferrari even started including it for free for 7 years (if the dealer did it and it was on schedule).
CCB brakes though are expensive. They last longer but if you track it they can be pretty pricey if you need to replace both pad and rotor. These track renting places where you can take a Ferrari out for 10 laps have converted back to steel brakes because of the cost.
Even Ferrari has learned the cars are too expensive to maintain which hurts resale values. And poor Resale values hurt new car sales.
Last edited by Sin City; Apr 17, 2019 at 11:21 AM.
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The Consigliere
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 22,993
Likes: 6,042
From: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Technology and engineering has really improved.
The annual service on an F430 was 13 hours. On a 458 it was 2. Ferrari even started including it for free for 7 years (if the dealer did it and it was on schedule).
CCB brakes though are expensive. They last longer but if you track it they can be pretty pricey if you need to replace both pad and rotor. These track renting places where you can take a Ferrari out for 10 laps have converted back to steel brakes because of the cost.
Even Ferrari has learned the cars are too expensive to maintain which hurts resale values. And poor Resale values hurt new car sales.
The annual service on an F430 was 13 hours. On a 458 it was 2. Ferrari even started including it for free for 7 years (if the dealer did it and it was on schedule).
CCB brakes though are expensive. They last longer but if you track it they can be pretty pricey if you need to replace both pad and rotor. These track renting places where you can take a Ferrari out for 10 laps have converted back to steel brakes because of the cost.
Even Ferrari has learned the cars are too expensive to maintain which hurts resale values. And poor Resale values hurt new car sales.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Betting the cradle drops out from the bottom such as an LS1 Camaro might.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1,170
From: C&D 10 Best loop
I'd like to know this as well since Tremec purchased Hoerbiger Drivetrain Mechatronics for their DCT designs and expertise, and HDM supplies DCTs to Ferrari.
It may not be indicative of Tremec's DCT reliability though, since production was moved from Belgium to Mexico and the US. But as far as I know Tremec products are quite reliable.
It may not be indicative of Tremec's DCT reliability though, since production was moved from Belgium to Mexico and the US. But as far as I know Tremec products are quite reliable.
The Consigliere
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 22,993
Likes: 6,042
From: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
I'd like to know this as well since Tremec purchased Hoerbiger Drivetrain Mechatronics for their DCT designs and expertise, and HDM supplies DCTs to Ferrari.
It may not be indicative of Tremec's DCT reliability though, since production was moved from Belgium to Mexico and the US. But as far as I know Tremec products are quite reliable.
It may not be indicative of Tremec's DCT reliability though, since production was moved from Belgium to Mexico and the US. But as far as I know Tremec products are quite reliable.
Instructor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 195
Likes: 43
I get some people change cars every few years. That's fine and that makes the decision on what car to buy not nearly as important as someone who plans to keep a car 10 years or more. But how can anyone actually suggest that no one should care about maintenance cost because a car will have a warranty when you buy it? Amazing.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 11,905
Likes: 2,148
Amazingly short sighted. Hey sunsalem, warranties ACTUALLY DO run out. Owners who plan to keep the car should care A LOT about service costs for the potentially MANY years that the car will be out of warranty.
I get some people change cars every few years. That's fine and that makes the decision on what car to buy not nearly as important as someone who plans to keep a car 10 years or more. But how can anyone actually suggest that no one should care about maintenance cost because a car will have a warranty when you buy it?
I get some people change cars every few years. That's fine and that makes the decision on what car to buy not nearly as important as someone who plans to keep a car 10 years or more. But how can anyone actually suggest that no one should care about maintenance cost because a car will have a warranty when you buy it?
GM has ALREADY said model generations will become shorter (as it has with all manufacturers) in the future.
Keeping "a car 10 years or more" means missing out on at least one generation...for example, missing out on the great C7.
BUT if anyone is determined to keep a car that long, they can:
1) Buy extended warranty and/or service contracts.
OR
2) Bang knuckles, burn hands/arms, grease-up hands/fingers (woman LOVE this
), enjoy having to buy special tools that have only one purpose, discover with horror that manufacturers no longer carry large parts inventories for older cars as they once did, and on and on...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 1,024
From: AA/Metro Detroit
BUT if anyone is determined to keep a car that long, they can:
1) Buy extended warranty and/or service contracts.
OR
2) Bang knuckles, burn hands/arms, grease-up hands/fingers (woman LOVE this), enjoy having to buy special tools that have only one purpose, discover with horror that manufacturers no longer carry large parts inventories for older cars as they once did, and on and on...
1) Buy extended warranty and/or service contracts.
OR
2) Bang knuckles, burn hands/arms, grease-up hands/fingers (woman LOVE this
), enjoy having to buy special tools that have only one purpose, discover with horror that manufacturers no longer carry large parts inventories for older cars as they once did, and on and on...Cars just aren't that delicate of a thing, especially ones who live in garages and are pampered with low yearly mileage.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 1,024
From: AA/Metro Detroit
I completely forgot about my Fusion too. Had to drop the whole front end subframe to replace a clutch. Only time I've ever been happy to pay someone to do work for me.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,691
Likes: 322
From: Alexandria VA
The engine is sitting directly behind the seats which is directly behind the tallest part of the car. Maintenance will be a pain in the *** especially for a shade tree mechanic. A lot of items that used to be able to be serviced from the top of the car will have to be serviced underneath.
As an example to change the belt and belt tensioners on a Ferrari 360 it takes approx. 7 hours labor. On a front engine car this would take an hour taking your time while drinking a couple of beers.
As an example to change the belt and belt tensioners on a Ferrari 360 it takes approx. 7 hours labor. On a front engine car this would take an hour taking your time while drinking a couple of beers.
And as stated before, many of you are forgetting how much of a PITA it was to do a clutch job on a C5/6/7. I'd much rather drop the rear cradle for a major service than to have to split the entire car.
Last edited by RandomTask; Apr 18, 2019 at 09:01 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,900
Likes: 1,841
From: Hot Springs AR
So, the take away from this thread, at least to me:
1. Expect the C8 to be more difficult to work on than typical, but we don't know exactly how much
2. Expect the parts to be normal GM pricing
3. Expect normal maintenance to be about the same or slightly more difficult.
Honestly, my biggest concern is going to be reaching over the higher rear fenders as opposed to the front fenders (oh, and being able to afford one).
Have a good one,
Mike
1. Expect the C8 to be more difficult to work on than typical, but we don't know exactly how much
2. Expect the parts to be normal GM pricing
3. Expect normal maintenance to be about the same or slightly more difficult.
Honestly, my biggest concern is going to be reaching over the higher rear fenders as opposed to the front fenders (oh, and being able to afford one).
Have a good one,
Mike
Racer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 419
Likes: 140
The DCT used by Ferrari must be relatively good. I haven't seen it mentioned on ferrarichat, unlike the e-gear transmission in the gallardo where the early clutches wore down very quickly.
Googling it the F430 and F360 seem to last for quite some time (50k miles?) and one would expect them to have improved even further, late revision Gallardo clutch seem to have about a 20-30k mile life while the early Gallardo e-gear clutch was 2.5-5k miles.
So if they can just keep torque down to minimize clutch slippage there shouldn't be much issues with the DCT clutch in the C8. Might have to be very careful about keeping the hydraulic fluid fresh to keep it operating correctly, unless they've done away with hydraulics in favor of electric controls?
Googling it the F430 and F360 seem to last for quite some time (50k miles?) and one would expect them to have improved even further, late revision Gallardo clutch seem to have about a 20-30k mile life while the early Gallardo e-gear clutch was 2.5-5k miles.
So if they can just keep torque down to minimize clutch slippage there shouldn't be much issues with the DCT clutch in the C8. Might have to be very careful about keeping the hydraulic fluid fresh to keep it operating correctly, unless they've done away with hydraulics in favor of electric controls?