C8 Last ICE?
CF Community Team
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 14,146
Likes: 7,433
From: Pittsburgh
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Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 7,148
Likes: 1,546
From: Florida
Some of the thoughts then:
Horseless carriages would be capable of traveling as much as 30mph. This would result in tens of thousands of vehicle accidents and pedestrian deaths
The wholesale handling of a volatile substance, gasoline, would result in catastrophic fires that would eventually destroy the world.
How would fields be plowed without horses? The "vision" of tractors powered by gasoline and diesel engines didn't really sink in at the time. The world would starve.
The argument was so impacting that congress almost passed a law against the development of motor driven carriages.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 108
Likes: 57
From: Jacksonville Beach Fla
So ICE vehicle engines don’t degrade? Everything has planned obsolescence and BEV is the same. Us old guys can fight it. I will always own my C8 with a loud V8 but the industry is transforming. This is the third time since 1900. Anyone know the first two?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,361
Likes: 4,800
From: West Burbs of Chicago IL
Ford CEO announced they will not abandon ICE as quickly in their truck lines. Said it will be impractical to do so. Smart. I’m not a Ford guy but like his rationale.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 232
From: Licking MO
It will probably be more like 5-10. We’re already nearing cost parity. I love my Vette and can’t wait to get my ‘23, but also realize it will probably be my last ICE vehicle. I bought a Tesla Model X years ago and it’s been great… no regrets after 36,000 miles including many long road trips.
Like any new technology, we’ll hit a market tipping point where suddenly the “old” technology becomes undesirable and you can’t give it away. CRT based TVs, flip phones, VCRs… all became undesirable once the markets for the replacement technologies hit the tipping point. The same will happen with ICE vehicles. I’ll unload my ‘23 before that happens.
Like any new technology, we’ll hit a market tipping point where suddenly the “old” technology becomes undesirable and you can’t give it away. CRT based TVs, flip phones, VCRs… all became undesirable once the markets for the replacement technologies hit the tipping point. The same will happen with ICE vehicles. I’ll unload my ‘23 before that happens.
If they improve to the point where they are truly comparable to ICE vehicles in convenience and battery life improves I might consider eventually. If I can drive a battery vehicle for 150-200 thousand miles like an ICE vehicle and still have the same resale value then ok. Battery replacement costs will have to be in line with engine rebuild or replacement costs.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 817
Likes: 905
From: Cincinnati
As the old saying goes, "It's easier to fool someone, than to convince them they've been fooled."
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892
Likes: 1,200
From: Ft. Myers FL
It will take 30 new power plants and a total revamp our vulnerable and hackable electric grid to make EV's workable. But, 300 or even 500 mile battery range still won't be sufficient until they come up with a way to fully charge an EV in 5 or 10 minutes. As for GM to commit total EV's is not only stupid it's most likely to cause another bunch of government auto companies bailouts. It's a totally stupid and impractical business decision. In 13 years our country with a 30 trillion dollar dept and pending deep recession and all our jobs leaving this country and with right now 3 1/2 million illegal and un documented immigrants, I hate to burst your bubble, but it's NOT going to happen. The old saying "Never put all your eggs in one basket" is true. They should have committed to a 60 to 40 mix because of the percentage of people in rural and suburban areas. But, I've lived long enough to see plenty of companies seal their own doom by jumping on and off the popular bandwagon at that time. 
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 356
From: Colorado
Just wait until everyone wakes up and realizes the cost and environmental stress battery production causes. Wait until people get tired of waiting 20 minutes for a "super charge". Wait until low resale values of used EVs with nearly spent batteries are experienced by the public. Wait until a Corvette owner has to pay for new battery, battery installation, and old battery replacement. Oh yes, wait until there are so many EVs that our "green" electric grid can't charge them all. A slick salesman will sell you this great alternative technology that avoids all the above - an internal combustion engine.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 430
Likes: 227
From: 56th & Lakeshore
If the sheeple stop buying into the hype and stop buying EV's there would be no market for them.
Question : How do you get a frog into a boiling pot of water ?
Answer : Fill pot put him in and then turn the heat up slowly.
Question : How do you get a frog into a boiling pot of water ?
Answer : Fill pot put him in and then turn the heat up slowly.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 1
From: Paramus NJ
Actually they really did. I read an article that people in the day warned of catastrophic results if the world switched to horseless carriages.
Some of the thoughts then:
Horseless carriages would be capable of traveling as much as 30mph. This would result in tens of thousands of vehicle accidents and pedestrian deaths
The wholesale handling of a volatile substance, gasoline, would result in catastrophic fires that would eventually destroy the world.
How would fields be plowed without horses? The "vision" of tractors powered by gasoline and diesel engines didn't really sink in at the time. The world would starve.
The argument was so impacting that congress almost passed a law against the development of motor driven carriages.
Some of the thoughts then:
Horseless carriages would be capable of traveling as much as 30mph. This would result in tens of thousands of vehicle accidents and pedestrian deaths
The wholesale handling of a volatile substance, gasoline, would result in catastrophic fires that would eventually destroy the world.
How would fields be plowed without horses? The "vision" of tractors powered by gasoline and diesel engines didn't really sink in at the time. The world would starve.
The argument was so impacting that congress almost passed a law against the development of motor driven carriages.
kind of like they want to do now.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 7,148
Likes: 1,546
From: Florida
Yes, very little difference in sides, just 100 years later with some different details.
Those who say it can't be done, those who say it can and must be done. I know which side wins..it's inevitable...
Congress changes so often they're less impacting on the whole idea. State and local jurisdictions are much more impacting. In some states, local municipalities are no longer approving permits for new gasoline stations. State edicts like CA is doing regarding no sales of ICE vehicles allowed after a date certain have a way of moving sentiment...like it or not.
Those who say they'll never buy an EV might be walking someday as they might not be able to buy fuel or register an ICE vehicle in some or all states.
Those who say it can't be done, those who say it can and must be done. I know which side wins..it's inevitable...
Congress changes so often they're less impacting on the whole idea. State and local jurisdictions are much more impacting. In some states, local municipalities are no longer approving permits for new gasoline stations. State edicts like CA is doing regarding no sales of ICE vehicles allowed after a date certain have a way of moving sentiment...like it or not.
Those who say they'll never buy an EV might be walking someday as they might not be able to buy fuel or register an ICE vehicle in some or all states.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 430
Likes: 227
From: 56th & Lakeshore
Yes, very little difference in sides, just 100 years later with some different details.
Those who say it can't be done, those who say it can and must be done. I know which side wins..it's inevitable...
Congress changes so often they're less impacting on the whole idea. State and local jurisdictions are much more impacting. In some states, local municipalities are no longer approving permits for new gasoline stations. State edicts like CA is doing regarding no sales of ICE vehicles allowed after a date certain have a way of moving sentiment...like it or not.
Those who say they'll never buy an EV might be walking someday as they might not be able to buy fuel or register an ICE vehicle in some or all states.
Those who say it can't be done, those who say it can and must be done. I know which side wins..it's inevitable...
Congress changes so often they're less impacting on the whole idea. State and local jurisdictions are much more impacting. In some states, local municipalities are no longer approving permits for new gasoline stations. State edicts like CA is doing regarding no sales of ICE vehicles allowed after a date certain have a way of moving sentiment...like it or not.
Those who say they'll never buy an EV might be walking someday as they might not be able to buy fuel or register an ICE vehicle in some or all states.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 567
Likes: 31
i dont believe battery only EVs will end up being a long term solution. density, weight, charge time, cost to replace, cost to dispose, materials required to make EV batteries, electric power infrastructure limits with no major planning to massively increase electricity generation. then you get into things like, say you are on the coast, hurricane is coming, you need to go north, roads are jammed, limited 'refueling' availability. example is savannah to macon GA evac corridor. they block all south bound lanes to double the exit volume but it still backs up.
comparing motor cars to horse and buggy. yes folks freaked but it soon became obvious that there were lots of advantages to replacing your wagon with a model t. the advantages of replacing ICE are supposed reduced cost for 'fuel' but that cannot last. energy has to come from somewhere. it costs to produce. i dont see any other advantages for EV other than that.
comparing motor cars to horse and buggy. yes folks freaked but it soon became obvious that there were lots of advantages to replacing your wagon with a model t. the advantages of replacing ICE are supposed reduced cost for 'fuel' but that cannot last. energy has to come from somewhere. it costs to produce. i dont see any other advantages for EV other than that.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 7,148
Likes: 1,546
From: Florida
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 213
Likes: 149
From: Westminster, CA
Lately i have been seeing that companies are testing altenative/synthetic fuels that are clean burning. I have a feeling that we will see a big jump in this soon. also the 2035 law says no gasoline powered cars so, traditional ICE engines will not go away, especially in the trucking industry. My hope is that someone make a synthetic blend that burns similar to gas, but has no carbon emissions and basically will work on all cars past/present/future (A man can dream).
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 13,180
Likes: 10,527
Yes, and density will get better, those limits will continue to improve, and degradation is much less of an issue than people seem to think. There are 1st gen Tesla model S still driving around on the original batteries. There are hundreds of millions of dollars being spent on battery research. Today's LI tech isn't the end of the process, it's the beginning. Why people think technology stands still, when history demonstrates the opposite, I'll never understand. We're not still driving around with 10 liter V12s producing 120 HP, and in 20 years we won't be driving around on today's battery and motor technology.
Last edited by Red Mist Rulz; Sep 22, 2022 at 03:19 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 1
From: Paramus NJ
Porsche is already doing this. They have produced a synthetic gasoline. Actually this has been done before. During WW2 the ***** produced synthetic fuel. The downside was it was very costly to produce.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 7,148
Likes: 1,546
From: Florida
Yes, and density will get better, those limits will continue to improve, and degradation is much less of an issue than people seem to think. There are 1st gen Tesla model S still driving around on the original batteries. There are hundreds of millions of dollars being spent on battery research. Today's LI tech isn't the end of the process, it's the beginning. Why people think technology stands still, when history demonstrates the opposite, I'll never understand. We're not still driving around with 10 liter V12s producing 120 HP, and it 20 years we won't be driving around on today's battery and motor technology.