How much power will the C8 DCT handle
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 10,230
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From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA VA
This thread is laughable. The GT500 has a thoroughly tested DCT. So ya, a Tremec DCT can handle whatever GM throws at it. DCT's and power mods is the real question. See, the DCT TCM is programmed and designed to work in concert with the peaks of HP and TQ of the PCM in the car. So, changing the parameters of the PCM throws off the stock program of the TCM in the DCT. Now, modding will involve tuning the TCM AND the PCM.
this. it's an integrated package. stay with street tires and leave the slicks alone and it will likely do just fine.
since you won't be able to upgrade the power without the new ET phoning home and ruining your warranty, wait until there is a solution to tune the car or upgrades won't likely do much good.
I'd be concerned about the main ring and pinion gear. With "deep gears" with a angled cut to run quiet, they may be the weak link. Leave the clutch alone too until you can tune it or the driveability might not be good.
Race Director
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From: "Shitcago"
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Fort Worth, Texas
this. it's an integrated package. stay with street tires and leave the slicks alone and it will likely do just fine.
since you won't be able to upgrade the power without the new ET phoning home and ruining your warranty, wait until there is a solution to tune the car or upgrades won't likely do much good.
I'd be concerned about the main ring and pinion gear. With "deep gears" with a angled cut to run quiet, they may be the weak link. Leave the clutch alone too until you can tune it or the driveability might not be good.
since you won't be able to upgrade the power without the new ET phoning home and ruining your warranty, wait until there is a solution to tune the car or upgrades won't likely do much good.
I'd be concerned about the main ring and pinion gear. With "deep gears" with a angled cut to run quiet, they may be the weak link. Leave the clutch alone too until you can tune it or the driveability might not be good.
https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us...-corvette.html
Last edited by PRE-Z06; Nov 13, 2019 at 07:28 PM.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 286
Likes: 61
From: traverse City, MI
Wouldn't stand up to the torque of the C7 Z06, but many are saying the C8 Z06 will be closer to 600 hp and with a FPC torque would be lower (if I understand FPC correctly) So if the fortune tellers here are right about NA 600hp 5.5L it might be down in the 500-550 range. No expert just sayin based on what others more knowledgable that I are saying.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
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How are you claiming facts for a model that is not out? Flat planes move TQ down by moving the power band higher in the RPM. But still maintain high HP numbers, which works out great on a track.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2008
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I am guessing 600-650 will wind up as a safe bet for the c8 dct too, since it should put down similar 2.9 0-60 with about a 20% safety margin over oem specs.
I've owned enough gm cars/trucks to tell you there will be "a huge pool of people" with transmission issues about the dct regardless of the failure rate.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
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From: Clouds Over California
Just sold one of my BMWs and was at the dealership eyeballing a M5 Competition which has over 600hp and reportedly runs a high 10 sec 1/4 mile...not too bad for a 4 door..although the latest update to my P3 Tesla reports the 0-60 at 2.9 secs lol. Anyway BMW is moving away from the DCT....one has to wonder why? Does anybody think GM will do a better job than the Germans? Perhaps but BMW made a run at it and is done with DCT citing it as a "weak point" and going back to good old fashioned tq. converter automatics. I'm glad I gave up my spot on the C8 list and waiting until the Z comes out. Let everybody else flush out the issues.
Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; Nov 17, 2019 at 11:12 AM.
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Le Mans Master
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From: Clouds Over California
Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; Nov 17, 2019 at 09:25 PM.
Pro
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Yeah I don't know so much about that. I mean how many cars have you designed? In fact many would say performance cars deserve a manual tranny. As an engineer I have pretty good confidence that if BMW is moving away from DCT with 600+ hp cars that there is an issue they are tired of fighting. If you spend as much time searching as you did responding you might find the article from BMW engineering explaining the move, in the article they clearly state there is a reliability with the DCT with higher hp applications and they are going back to a tq converter as the technology has improved with autos offering 8-10 speed transmissions. Honestly I trust BMW more than I do GM as they are normally ahead of GM as is Porsche in the R&D department.
I respect you and your cars.
But, ease back with the condescending crap.
DCT is the choice for a performance car.
Every supercar manufacturer proves this is true.
I research. More importantly, I test the cars for myself.
Manufacturers frequently lie, even in print, so what they say needs to be read skeptically.
Like GM's laughable claim that their garbage A8 was in the same universe as PDK.
As far as BMW, they've obviously lost their way, especially the M division.
The last BMW worth buying was the V8 M5 with it's exclusively MANUAL transmission.
That's why I daily drive a SS Sedan with a stick.
Last edited by 2021 C8; Nov 17, 2019 at 09:54 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,391
Likes: 2,911
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Yeah I don't know so much about that. I mean how many cars have you designed? In fact many would say performance cars deserve a manual tranny. As an engineer I have pretty good confidence that if BMW is moving away from DCT with 600+ hp cars that there is an issue they are tired of fighting. If you spend as much time searching as you did responding you might find the article from BMW engineering explaining the move, in the article they clearly state there is a reliability with the DCT with higher hp applications and they are going back to a tq converter as the technology has improved with autos offering 8-10 speed transmissions. Honestly I trust BMW more than I do GM as they are normally ahead of GM as is Porsche in the R&D department.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 286
Likes: 61
From: traverse City, MI
Yeah I don't know so much about that. I mean how many cars have you designed? In fact many would say performance cars deserve a manual tranny. As an engineer I have pretty good confidence that if BMW is moving away from DCT with 600+ hp cars that there is an issue they are tired of fighting. If you spend as much time searching as you did responding you might find the article from BMW engineering explaining the move, in the article they clearly state there is a reliability with the DCT with higher hp applications and they are going back to a tq converter as the technology has improved with autos offering 8-10 speed transmissions. Honestly I trust BMW more than I do GM as they are normally ahead of GM as is Porsche in the R&D department.
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 1
Likes: 2
Like NoOne, I'm actually quite impressed with the ZF in our '19 S4 and there is a plethora of other manufactures using similar transmissions.
While I do prefer most DCTs, its somewhat disingenuous to believe DCTs are the end-all solution in every performance application. In either case, I'm sure Dodson will step up in the aftermarket to meet the horsepower requirements of most consumers.
While I do prefer most DCTs, its somewhat disingenuous to believe DCTs are the end-all solution in every performance application. In either case, I'm sure Dodson will step up in the aftermarket to meet the horsepower requirements of most consumers.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
Likes: 527
From: Clouds Over California
I've been reading you posts for 20 years.
I respect you and your cars.
But, ease back with the condescending crap.
DCT is the choice for a performance car.
Every supercar manufacturer proves this is true.
I research. More importantly, I test the cars for myself.
Manufacturers frequently lie, even in print, so what they say needs to be read skeptically.
Like GM's laughable claim that their garbage A8 was in the same universe as PDK.
As far as BMW, they've obviously lost their way, especially the M division.
The last BMW worth buying was the V8 M5 with it's exclusively MANUAL transmission.
That's why I daily drive a SS Sedan with a stick.
I respect you and your cars.
But, ease back with the condescending crap.
DCT is the choice for a performance car.
Every supercar manufacturer proves this is true.
I research. More importantly, I test the cars for myself.
Manufacturers frequently lie, even in print, so what they say needs to be read skeptically.
Like GM's laughable claim that their garbage A8 was in the same universe as PDK.
As far as BMW, they've obviously lost their way, especially the M division.
The last BMW worth buying was the V8 M5 with it's exclusively MANUAL transmission.
That's why I daily drive a SS Sedan with a stick.
But being that you are admittedly a magazine reader. Did you miss the review on the 2019 M5 Competition doing 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and 10.8 in the 1/4. That car weighs in at over 4K lbs. too. I don't consider that losing their way as much as being pretty bad *** for a 4 door sedan.
I've had 3 different series BMWs and liked them all for different reasons and not liked them for some of the same.
Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; Nov 20, 2019 at 05:47 PM.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2019
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LOL If you think I was being condescending you really don't know me that well or have read many of my post. For example if I was being that way I would have posed my question as more of statement such as: "unless you are an engineer and designed cars you don't really know ****" that would have been a condescending remark. So I apologize if what I said came across that way. I simply asked how many cars have you designed? Having been on this forum for a while there are people who have done their own engineering (such as myself) or worked for car companies that could answer "yes" to such a question. So I don't like to be presumptuous about it.
But being that you are admittedly a magazine reader. Did you miss the review on the 2019 M5 Competition doing 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and 10.8 in the 1/4. That car weighs in at over 4K lbs. too. I don't consider that losing their way as much as being pretty bad *** for a 4 door sedan.
I've had 3 different series BMWs and liked them all for different reasons and not liked them for some of the same.
But being that you are admittedly a magazine reader. Did you miss the review on the 2019 M5 Competition doing 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and 10.8 in the 1/4. That car weighs in at over 4K lbs. too. I don't consider that losing their way as much as being pretty bad *** for a 4 door sedan.
I've had 3 different series BMWs and liked them all for different reasons and not liked them for some of the same.
Some of our resident "auto engineers" prove to be rather clueless, so I take that claim with a pound of salt. (You excluded)
Cancelled all of my magazines in 2003.
They've lost most of their credibility IMHO.
No doubt the current M5 is a bullet train.
Fast in a straight line, but they are heavy, don't like to change direction, and are rather soulless.
Don't even get me started on the torque converters.
NO THANK YOU.
Although I despise Porsche, I have more respect for their engineers then I do BMWs.
Porsche, as all the other supercar manufacturers, have abandoned torque converters for DCT.
Enough said.
On top of that, my experiences with DCT have been good enough to get this lifelong stickshift guy to give up his cluitch pedal.
Not to mention, my snowboarding buddy is a top tech for new Porsche/McLaren/Lambo/Ferrari, and he swears by them, especially PDK.
Good enough for me.
Last edited by 2021 C8; Nov 21, 2019 at 02:51 AM.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 286
Likes: 61
From: traverse City, MI
No worries.
Some of our resident "auto engineers" prove to be rather clueless, so I take that claim with a pound of salt. (You excluded)
Cancelled all of my magazines in 2003.
They've lost most of their credibility IMHO.
No doubt the current M5 is a bullet train.
Fast in a straight line, but they are heavy, don't like to change direction, and are rather soulless.
Don't even get me started on the torque converters.
NO THANK YOU.
Although I despise Porsche, I have more respect for their engineers then I do BMWs.
Porsche, as all the other supercar manufacturers, have abandoned torque converters for DCT.
Enough said.
On top of that, my experiences with DCT have been good enough to get this lifelong stickshift guy to give up his cluitch pedal.
Not to mention, my snowboarding buddy is a top tech for new Porsche/McLaren/Lambo/Ferrari, and he swears by them, especially PDK.
Good enough for me.
Some of our resident "auto engineers" prove to be rather clueless, so I take that claim with a pound of salt. (You excluded)
Cancelled all of my magazines in 2003.
They've lost most of their credibility IMHO.
No doubt the current M5 is a bullet train.
Fast in a straight line, but they are heavy, don't like to change direction, and are rather soulless.
Don't even get me started on the torque converters.
NO THANK YOU.
Although I despise Porsche, I have more respect for their engineers then I do BMWs.
Porsche, as all the other supercar manufacturers, have abandoned torque converters for DCT.
Enough said.
On top of that, my experiences with DCT have been good enough to get this lifelong stickshift guy to give up his cluitch pedal.
Not to mention, my snowboarding buddy is a top tech for new Porsche/McLaren/Lambo/Ferrari, and he swears by them, especially PDK.
Good enough for me.
BMW performance driving school in SC it is very fast in a straight line and very comfortable but it stops there, it is heavy, ponderous and really doesn't like to take corners and it really is not that fun to drive. I know if were to take my C7 Stingray on that course it would kick the M5s ***.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 573
Likes: 358
I agree with what you say about the M5 I drove one at high speeds on the track at the
BMW performance driving school in SC it is very fast in a straight line and very comfortable but it stops there, it is heavy, ponderous and really doesn't like to take corners and it really is not that fun to drive. I know if were to take my C7 Stingray on that course it would kick the M5s ***.
BMW performance driving school in SC it is very fast in a straight line and very comfortable but it stops there, it is heavy, ponderous and really doesn't like to take corners and it really is not that fun to drive. I know if were to take my C7 Stingray on that course it would kick the M5s ***.
the Corvette would still be more fun.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 942
From: Fl
590 lb-ft is how much torque the clutches can handle. I bet if they changed the gear ratio for 1st gear it will be more. No different than the tall first gear in the C7 Z06 manual allowing the 6070 to handle more torque than the shorter gear in the C7 Z51.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,391
Likes: 2,911
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Taller gearing actually puts more strain on the clutch, the taller gearing has a higher torque rating because the teeth of gears are thicker being there are less of them in a taller numeric ratio.
