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The cross plane is more durable as most are built. Generally speaking, the higher the sustained rpm, the shorter the life of the engine. Flat pane crank engines are design to run at higher rpms than cross planes as designed today.
Thank you for your input.I have 08 corvette auto ls3 engine tuned by Jeremy Formato.The car has almost 100,000 miles on it and it still runs like a violent raped ape. I would like to buy the new Z06 when it comes out,but the negative things i have read about the flat plane crank scares me.I also read ford had a lot of problems with the gt 350 because of the flat plane crank,and maybe that is why it is not in the gt 500.This is a racing engine and GM has to warranty this motor.it might be in there best interest to go with the cadillac 4.2 liter turbo or stay with the 6.2 supercharge.
Thank you for your input.I have 08 corvette auto ls3 engine tuned by Jeremy Formato.The car has almost 100,000 miles on it and it still runs like a violent raped ape. I would like to buy the new Z06 when it comes out,but the negative things i have read about the flat plane crank scares me.I also read ford had a lot of problems with the gt 350 because of the flat plane crank,and maybe that is why it is not in the gt 500.This is a racing engine and GM has to warranty this motor.it might be in there best interest to go with the cadillac 4.2 liter turbo or stay with the 6.2 supercharge.
There has been no official announcements or leaked documents that have indicated the use of a flat plane crank. No need to be concerned about something that isn’t real. Just like that there is no reason for anyone to be concerned about the C9 flying Corvette falling out of the sky because it was assembled with a few $16.67 temps bring parts to the line.
Any engine can be durable or fragile depending on how it's designed and built. I think having a DCT behind it will help to preserve whatever engine is used in the C8. The DCT prevents an accidental downshift forcing the engine to over-rev.
For all the production engines GM does quite a bit of durability testing and whether flat plane or not, the Z06 will have an engine that survived both static and on road testing for MANY moons and miles
That being said, FPC engines generally are higher revving which puts lots more strain on the roatating assembly. While there are strength and HP advantages to the flat plane crank stuff I honestly don't think GM will put it in the prod engine
the lemans engines are limited on HP via restrictors, and the race engines have put out LESS HP than that production line engines for a long time.
I wouldn't assume that the race engine specs make it to the prod engine any more than I would expect the CF crass ram ITB intake to make prod.
Different animals for different requirements will generate wildly different specs. All the forged and billet goodness in the race motor won't necessarily be the right solution for the street and CAFE compliance.
We'll have to wait and see. I certainly hope some of the body styling cues like the front end make it to the production car, big improvement and an ez upgrade!!
Different animals for different requirements will generate wildly different specs. All the forged and billet goodness in the race motor won't necessarily be the right solution for the street and CAFE compliance.
CAFE will clearly be an issue if the displacement hits 5.5l. I'm under the impression that the LT2 is rev limited by the AFM highway cruise lifters. Tadge said they wanted to stop/start on the car. Maybe on a DOHC cam motor they can figure another solution for mileage, if the car doesn't end up as a hybrid.
Thank you for your input.I have 08 corvette auto ls3 engine tuned by Jeremy Formato.The car has almost 100,000 miles on it and it still runs like a violent raped ape. I would like to buy the new Z06 when it comes out,but the negative things i have read about the flat plane crank scares me.I also read ford had a lot of problems with the gt 350 because of the flat plane crank,and maybe that is why it is not in the gt 500.This is a racing engine and GM has to warranty this motor.it might be in there best interest to go with the cadillac 4.2 liter turbo or stay with the 6.2 supercharge.
the LS engines routinely go 250-300k miles in pickups and SUVs. It is going to difficult to match that with a high RPM dual over head cam engine
https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us.../1010-c8r.html We will get our first look at the durability of the flat plane architecture from the race engine variant. Admittedly, this engine will have been heavily massaged by Pratt & Miller but it has the same “roots”. This will be a challenging year for Team Corvette: ”NEW EVERYTHING”... (including one driver, albeit a damn good one). But since the IMSA BoP rules seem to penalize everything good except reliability, lets just say TC has tough sledding ahead. If we go back a few years to Chip Gnassi’s switch from BMW power to Ecoboost in his DP cars (to sort the engine out for the later to come GTLM Ford GT race car), it had many hiccups over a 2 year period. The previous BMW’s were virtually bullet proof.... the early Ecoboosts had every possible failure imaginable. I really hope I’m wrong on this score, but IMO anybody thinking this new flat plane DOHC engine will be even remotely as reliable out of the gate as its venerable push rod predecessor, is smoking something strong.
the LS engines routinely go 250-300k miles in pickups and SUVs. It is going to difficult to match that with a high RPM dual over head cam engine
not at all. I don't know why folks equate pushrods with durability. While revving higher does challenge reliability, a well engineered engine will do this with ease.
as far as the durability target, gm already did this, it's called the LT5. Engine is very stout and goes well over 200k miles without a rebuild As the older cars are getting used even this 90s tech works just fine.
not at all. I don't know why folks equate pushrods with durability. While revving higher does challenge reliability, a well engineered engine will do this with ease.
as far as the durability target, gm already did this, it's called the LT5. Engine is very stout and goes well over 200k miles without a rebuild As the older cars are getting used even this 90s tech works just fine.
Amen. Some people seem to forget that a stock out of the box LT-5(the original one) ran 5k miles in 24hrs at an average of 175mph. That was nearly 30years ago and that its still the only production car to ever do that.
not at all. I don't know why folks equate pushrods with durability. While revving higher does challenge reliability, a well engineered engine will do this with ease.
as far as the durability target, gm already did this, it's called the LT5. Engine is very stout and goes well over 200k miles without a rebuild As the older cars are getting used even this 90s tech works just fine.
more parts = more breakage
the LT5s were so undesirable there were not enough made to generate meaningful stats from. the number of them even driven to 100k much less 200k can probably be counted on your fingers and toes
the LT5s were so undesirable there were not enough made to generate meaningful stats from. the number of them even driven to 100k much less 200k can probably be counted on your fingers and toes
Honestly you don't know what you are talking about. The LT5 had over 7k engines made so that's a pretty significant number. DOHC engines are used in most applications where high rpm durability is needed. There are a large number of ZR-` corvettes over 100k miles. I know of about 20 in my neighborhood in NOVA alone that are over 100k, and a whole bunch more down your way in Tx. Please do a little homework before you dis something you clearly know nothing about.
Still one of the best engines GM ever put in a vehicle. How many stock block engines ever set the FIA 24 endurance record? One, the LT5. Go try that with anything you have ever had your hands on and report back. Lots of urban myth and legend about the LT5. GM is going back to DOHC for the vette. Why is that? Increased durability, performance, and emissions targets which make the "more parts" approach necessary.
Your theory about more parts = more breakage isn't supported by modern engine design best practices so I'll leave it at that. Take a look across the board and you'll see GM has taken the old venerable SB pushrod engine as far as possible optimizing it over the years. Quite a good engine, but not the best.
https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us.../1010-c8r.html We will get our first look at the durability of the flat plane architecture from the race engine variant. Admittedly, this engine will have been heavily massaged by Pratt & Miller but it has the same “roots”. This will be a challenging year for Team Corvette: ”NEW EVERYTHING”... (including one driver, albeit a damn good one). But since the IMSA BoP rules seem to penalize everything good except reliability, lets just say TC has tough sledding ahead. If we go back a few years to Chip Gnassi’s switch from BMW power to Ecoboost in his DP cars (to sort the engine out for the later to come GTLM Ford GT race car), it had many hiccups over a 2 year period. The previous BMW’s were virtually bullet proof.... the early Ecoboosts had every possible failure imaginable. I really hope I’m wrong on this score, but IMO anybody thinking this new flat plane DOHC engine will be even remotely as reliable out of the gate as its venerable push rod predecessor, is smoking something strong.
I have read that article 4 times. I still where it says it is a flat plane crank engine. “the C8.R will feature a 5.5L naturally-aspirated V8 engine, producing 500 hp and 480 ft.-lb. of torque”. Is there another GM article that says it is a flat plane crank?
[QUOTE=Racer X;1600732708]I have read that article 4 times. I still where it says it is a flat plane crank engine. “the C8.R will feature a 5.5L naturally-aspirated V8 engine, producing 500 hp and 480 ft.-lb. of torque”. Is there another GM article that says it is a flat plane crank? [/https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/30317/chevrolets-corvette-c8-r-race-car-uses-a-dohc-5-5-liter-flat-plane-crank-v-8.
Last edited by Rinaldo Catria; Jan 2, 2020 at 06:22 PM.
https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us.../1010-c8r.html We will get our first look at the durability of the flat plane architecture from the race engine variant. Admittedly, this engine will have been heavily massaged by Pratt & Miller but it has the same “roots”. This will be a challenging year for Team Corvette: ”NEW EVERYTHING”... (including one driver, albeit a damn good one). But since the IMSA BoP rules seem to penalize everything good except reliability, lets just say TC has tough sledding ahead. If we go back a few years to Chip Gnassi’s switch from BMW power to Ecoboost in his DP cars (to sort the engine out for the later to come GTLM Ford GT race car), it had many hiccups over a 2 year period. The previous BMW’s were virtually bullet proof.... the early Ecoboosts had every possible failure imaginable. I really hope I’m wrong on this score, but IMO anybody thinking this new flat plane DOHC engine will be even remotely as reliable out of the gate as its venerable push rod predecessor, is smoking something strong.
why do you think you are smarter than the gm engineers? they are putting a very solid contending engine forward and just because YOU think old SB chevy tech is more reliable than this engine, I think YOU might be the one hitting the stash
Honestly, this car will not hit the track without significant development time and testing and represents what GM is competing with backed by a pretty solid engineering team. You want old tech, look at other platforms.
Corvette is making some big strides in engineering capability and you probably should watch the race before you throw brick bats at the new engine.
I also don't believe we'll see a FPC in a NA engine in the STREET car. This is a C8R race engine. While FPC has advantages for a race engine, it's a bit expensive to implement in production street engines with a marginal advantage relative to cost.
why do you think you are smarter than the gm engineers? they are putting a very solid contending engine forward and just because YOU think old SB chevy tech is more reliable than this engine, I think YOU might be the one hitting the stash
Honestly, this car will not hit the track without significant development time and testing and represents what GM is competing with backed by a pretty solid engineering team. You want old tech, look at other platforms.
Corvette is making some big strides in engineering capability and you probably should watch the race before you throw brick bats at the new engine.
I also don't believe we'll see a FPC in a NA engine in the STREET car. This is a C8R race engine. While FPC has advantages for a race engine, it's a bit expensive to implement in production street engines with a marginal advantage relative to cost.
I don’t think I’m at all smarter than GM engineers. To the contrary, I cited an example of some pretty smart people (Ford and Gnassi) who took several years to sort out their new engine. If you a want a GM example, go back several years to when Team Corvette had to drop to 5.5L on the pushrod engine. The higher rpms required to make needed hp resulted in cam shafts twisting and the valves and piston making contact in cyl 8 at Le Mans. Who ever heard of a cam shaft twisting? Only racing trial and error unveiled the problem. I’m just saying it takes time to sort out things in engines that are getting wrung out to near their max. Oh, and my money is on us seeing a flat plane V8 in the production car. You can buy one right now from Ford in the Shelby GT350.
Speaking of racing... it starts this weekend.
Last edited by Rinaldo Catria; Jan 3, 2020 at 09:19 AM.
