Brake Ducts
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 856
Likes: 74
From: Ave Maria FL
I had my inner ducts installed upon delivery of the car.
I just came back from Spring Mountain and they said they do not run the ducts on their cars as they get torn off if the car goes off track and they have not had any resulting brake problems. I know the car I drove had awesome brakes that never faded.
I just came back from Spring Mountain and they said they do not run the ducts on their cars as they get torn off if the car goes off track and they have not had any resulting brake problems. I know the car I drove had awesome brakes that never faded.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 293
Likes: 152
From: Sarasota
Not buying Z51 pkg
IMHO, the ducts are BS. I suspect that at the 98th%, they may have some effect.... I never put them on my C7 Z51, and had zero problems on the track.... however, you MUST put high temp DOT4 racing fluid in, and also follow their oil recommendation, and make sure the dealer does this so you are on record for warranty protection.
Now, unless you are a very novice driver, I would highly recommend replacing the stock pads with high-performance track pads when you go to the track to eliminate material build-up... this takes about 2 hours, and is easy to do (notice they don't mention this in the owners manual).
Most of this stuff is a** covering, and also ( I suspect) making it appear harder to comply with the warranty requirements... but give GM kudos for even providing warranty coverage for track... no other MFG does this.
Now, unless you are a very novice driver, I would highly recommend replacing the stock pads with high-performance track pads when you go to the track to eliminate material build-up... this takes about 2 hours, and is easy to do (notice they don't mention this in the owners manual).
Most of this stuff is a** covering, and also ( I suspect) making it appear harder to comply with the warranty requirements... but give GM kudos for even providing warranty coverage for track... no other MFG does this.
I had Hawk street pads, SS brake lines, and HD brake fluid installed on my 2012 Callaway Camaro, which I occasionally tracked, and it made a world if difference. I contacted Adam at CarboTech and he had no useful info for me.
thanks,
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 1,593
So if I opt out of the Z51 pkg, do I still get 4 piston Brembo calipers? What are the stock pads? I heard Harlan say if you don’t plan to track, you don’t need the Z51 pkg, but what if I want to track it just for fun or I just want improved braking?
I had Hawk street pads, SS brake lines, and HD brake fluid installed on my 2012 Callaway Camaro, which I occasionally tracked, and it made a world if difference. I contacted Adam at CarboTech and he had no useful info for me.
thanks,
I had Hawk street pads, SS brake lines, and HD brake fluid installed on my 2012 Callaway Camaro, which I occasionally tracked, and it made a world if difference. I contacted Adam at CarboTech and he had no useful info for me.
thanks,
I can only comment on the C7, but the Brembo discs and calipers are up to track use... however, the stock pads are a compromise... under heavy track use, they deposit material on the rotors.
There is a tried and true saying... "What is good for the track is bad for the street... and vice versa
As I said, you need 600+ degree Dot4 racing fluid. I put Carbo-tech pads on my Corvette, but also used Hawk DTC 60 on my Cayman, and they were excellent, and economical... with MPSC2 tires, you cannot use really aggressive pads... these worked great.
It only takes about 2 hours to change wheels and brake-pads for a track weekend, and it's no problem driving the car on the street... back home, swap everything back, and Bob's Your Uncle.
Now you have to change the Dot4 fluid every 6 mos, but that's not a big issue
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 34,859
Likes: 12,290
From: NE South Carolina
So if I opt out of the Z51 pkg, do I still get 4 piston Brembo calipers? What are the stock pads? I heard Harlan say if you don’t plan to track, you don’t need the Z51 pkg, but what if I want to track it just for fun or I just want improved braking?
I had Hawk street pads, SS brake lines, and HD brake fluid installed on my 2012 Callaway Camaro, which I occasionally tracked, and it made a world if difference. I contacted Adam at CarboTech and he had no useful info for me.
thanks,
I had Hawk street pads, SS brake lines, and HD brake fluid installed on my 2012 Callaway Camaro, which I occasionally tracked, and it made a world if difference. I contacted Adam at CarboTech and he had no useful info for me.
thanks,
- All calipers on C8s are 4 piston Brembo, Z51 has larger rotor and pads.
- Stock Z51 pads are capable of Tracking, I.e. can handle higher temps. Base car pads cannot handle higher Tracking temps but don’t have excess dust.
- Adam has great information perhaps you did like his answer! Carbotech has Street pads that are low dust, 1521s. That is what I put on my 2014 Z51, 2017 Grand Sport and now my C8. I drive agressivly but don’t Track, no sustained braking where rotors will exceed 1000F. Carbotech 1521 pads have a max temp about 1000F and are not recommended for Tracking. Carbotech hash 4 or 5 race pad compounds that will stop up to various high temps past 1500 F BUT have dust. No free lunch. One advantage is the Carbotech compounds are all compatible so you can switch from Street 1521 pads to race pads and back WITHOUT cleaning the rotors of the residual pad material. Heck just takes a few minutes when you are changing to and from race brake fluid!
Let me start with the basics.... Corvette is a sports car. Why don't we just harden them all for the track to avoid this question? The truth is many customers use their Corvette for road driving only and we don't want to penalize those owners unnecessarily. Aside from cost and mass, making our car "track certified", has other trade-offs. We have had a lot of customer interest in more well-rounded rubber. We have had a great reception for our ultra-high performance all season tires. Nobody likes brake dust, but unfortunately the aggressive pads we must use for track durability and performance throw off some dust. That means cleaning your wheels more often. Also, our standard pads are compatible with rotors treated for reduced corrosion. The Z51 pads are not, so the rotors will have more tendency to show some cosmetic rust if the car is not driven. Then there is efficiency: Low drag is achieved by routing air cleanly around the vehicle. Taking air and running it through a tortuous path to get more air on the brakes adds drag. Forcing air through finned heat exchangers adds drag but it is the only way to keep engine, trans and A/C temps under control on a hot day at the track. Front splitters and rear spoilers add down force, but they add drag too. Our Z51 option has a lot of content precisely because it takes all of it to keep the car performing great the hands of a pro driver on a 100-degree day. Some third-party reviews have already validated this performance lap after lap, tanks of fuel at a time.
So, do we just not care about non-Z51 performance? Of course not. The standard Corvette must be a great sports car. We design it for very well-rounded performance, and it can still be driven very hard and fast. The reason we do not recommend it for the track, is that the driver may notice a few things because it wasn't optimized for that usage. All season tires don't use the rubber compounds that can stand extended periods of high-stress, high-temperature use. Therefore, you may get accelerated or uneven wear. As you mention in your question, brake fade could become noticeable as well and this is one area where the C8 driver needs to understand the effects of the cooling airflow balance I described above. With our electro-hydraulic apply system brake fade will appear both in higher pedal effort and in progressively more intrusive warning messages to the driver. Eventually the vehicle speed will be limited if brake pad or rotor damage is occurring. If the early warnings are ignored and the car is pushed to this speed limitation it will need to be serviced at the dealership prior to going back on the track. The car’s powertrain will act to protect itself, so mechanical failure is unlikely although the driver may notice performance pullbacks as the car senses impending thermal stress. For the 2020 Stingray we made a dry sump engine lube system standard ensuring an extra measure of confidence in that area. Bottom line is that most people would not have any serious issues driving an FE1 (non-Z51) car on the track, but GM does not recommend it because the car is not equipped or validated for that use. There are also variable driver skill levels as well to consider. That is why it is a grey area. Thanks for the question.
Last edited by JerryU; Sep 14, 2021 at 07:14 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 293
Likes: 152
From: Sarasota
I can only comment on the C7, but the Brembo discs and calipers are up to track use... however, the stock pads are a compromise... under heavy track use, they deposit material on the rotors.
There is a tried and true saying... "What is good for the track is bad for the street... and vice versa
As I said, you need 600+ degree Dot4 racing fluid. I put Carbo-tech pads on my Corvette, but also used Hawk DTC 60 on my Cayman, and they were excellent, and economical... with MPSC2 tires, you cannot use really aggressive pads... these worked great.
It only takes about 2 hours to change wheels and brake-pads for a track weekend, and it's no problem driving the car on the street... back home, swap everything back, and Bob's Your Uncle.
Now you have to change the Dot4 fluid every 6 mos, but that's not a big issue
There is a tried and true saying... "What is good for the track is bad for the street... and vice versa
As I said, you need 600+ degree Dot4 racing fluid. I put Carbo-tech pads on my Corvette, but also used Hawk DTC 60 on my Cayman, and they were excellent, and economical... with MPSC2 tires, you cannot use really aggressive pads... these worked great.
It only takes about 2 hours to change wheels and brake-pads for a track weekend, and it's no problem driving the car on the street... back home, swap everything back, and Bob's Your Uncle.
Now you have to change the Dot4 fluid every 6 mos, but that's not a big issue
Racer
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 293
Likes: 152
From: Sarasota
It’s a bit more complicated than a simple answer I’ll try then see forum post below giving full answer from Tadge re what they have in the Z51.
Let me start with the basics.... Corvette is a sports car. Why don't we just harden them all for the track to avoid this question? The truth is many customers use their Corvette for road driving only and we don't want to penalize those owners unnecessarily. Aside from cost and mass, making our car "track certified", has other trade-offs. We have had a lot of customer interest in more well-rounded rubber. We have had a great reception for our ultra-high performance all season tires. Nobody likes brake dust, but unfortunately the aggressive pads we must use for track durability and performance throw off some dust. That means cleaning your wheels more often. Also, our standard pads are compatible with rotors treated for reduced corrosion. The Z51 pads are not, so the rotors will have more tendency to show some cosmetic rust if the car is not driven. Then there is efficiency: Low drag is achieved by routing air cleanly around the vehicle. Taking air and running it through a tortuous path to get more air on the brakes adds drag. Forcing air through finned heat exchangers adds drag but it is the only way to keep engine, trans and A/C temps under control on a hot day at the track. Front splitters and rear spoilers add down force, but they add drag too. Our Z51 option has a lot of content precisely because it takes all of it to keep the car performing great the hands of a pro driver on a 100-degree day. Some third-party reviews have already validated this performance lap after lap, tanks of fuel at a time.
So, do we just not care about non-Z51 performance? Of course not. The standard Corvette must be a great sports car. We design it for very well-rounded performance, and it can still be driven very hard and fast. The reason we do not recommend it for the track, is that the driver may notice a few things because it wasn't optimized for that usage. All season tires don't use the rubber compounds that can stand extended periods of high-stress, high-temperature use. Therefore, you may get accelerated or uneven wear. As you mention in your question, brake fade could become noticeable as well and this is one area where the C8 driver needs to understand the effects of the cooling airflow balance I described above. With our electro-hydraulic apply system brake fade will appear both in higher pedal effort and in progressively more intrusive warning messages to the driver. Eventually the vehicle speed will be limited if brake pad or rotor damage is occurring. If the early warnings are ignored and the car is pushed to this speed limitation it will need to be serviced at the dealership prior to going back on the track. The car’s powertrain will act to protect itself, so mechanical failure is unlikely although the driver may notice performance pullbacks as the car senses impending thermal stress. For the 2020 Stingray we made a dry sump engine lube system standard ensuring an extra measure of confidence in that area. Bottom line is that most people would not have any serious issues driving an FE1 (non-Z51) car on the track, but GM does not recommend it because the car is not equipped or validated for that use. There are also variable driver skill levels as well to consider. That is why it is a grey area. Thanks for the question.
- All calipers on C8s are 4 piston Brembo, Z51 has larger rotor and pads.
- Stock Z51 pads are capable of Tracking, I.e. can handle higher temps. Base car pads cannot handle higher Tracking temps but don’t have excess dust.
- Adam has great information perhaps you did like his answer! Carbotech has Street pads that are low dust, 1521s. That is what I put on my 2014 Z51, 2017 Grand Sport and now my C8. I drive agressivly but don’t Track, no sustained braking where rotors will exceed 1000F. Carbotech 1521 pads have a max temp about 1000F and are not recommended for Tracking. Carbotech hash 4 or 5 race pad compounds that will stop up to various high temps past 1500 F BUT have dust. No free lunch. One advantage is the Carbotech compounds are all compatible so you can switch from Street 1521 pads to race pads and back WITHOUT cleaning the rotors of the residual pad material. Heck just takes a few minutes when you are changing to and from race brake fluid!
Let me start with the basics.... Corvette is a sports car. Why don't we just harden them all for the track to avoid this question? The truth is many customers use their Corvette for road driving only and we don't want to penalize those owners unnecessarily. Aside from cost and mass, making our car "track certified", has other trade-offs. We have had a lot of customer interest in more well-rounded rubber. We have had a great reception for our ultra-high performance all season tires. Nobody likes brake dust, but unfortunately the aggressive pads we must use for track durability and performance throw off some dust. That means cleaning your wheels more often. Also, our standard pads are compatible with rotors treated for reduced corrosion. The Z51 pads are not, so the rotors will have more tendency to show some cosmetic rust if the car is not driven. Then there is efficiency: Low drag is achieved by routing air cleanly around the vehicle. Taking air and running it through a tortuous path to get more air on the brakes adds drag. Forcing air through finned heat exchangers adds drag but it is the only way to keep engine, trans and A/C temps under control on a hot day at the track. Front splitters and rear spoilers add down force, but they add drag too. Our Z51 option has a lot of content precisely because it takes all of it to keep the car performing great the hands of a pro driver on a 100-degree day. Some third-party reviews have already validated this performance lap after lap, tanks of fuel at a time.
So, do we just not care about non-Z51 performance? Of course not. The standard Corvette must be a great sports car. We design it for very well-rounded performance, and it can still be driven very hard and fast. The reason we do not recommend it for the track, is that the driver may notice a few things because it wasn't optimized for that usage. All season tires don't use the rubber compounds that can stand extended periods of high-stress, high-temperature use. Therefore, you may get accelerated or uneven wear. As you mention in your question, brake fade could become noticeable as well and this is one area where the C8 driver needs to understand the effects of the cooling airflow balance I described above. With our electro-hydraulic apply system brake fade will appear both in higher pedal effort and in progressively more intrusive warning messages to the driver. Eventually the vehicle speed will be limited if brake pad or rotor damage is occurring. If the early warnings are ignored and the car is pushed to this speed limitation it will need to be serviced at the dealership prior to going back on the track. The car’s powertrain will act to protect itself, so mechanical failure is unlikely although the driver may notice performance pullbacks as the car senses impending thermal stress. For the 2020 Stingray we made a dry sump engine lube system standard ensuring an extra measure of confidence in that area. Bottom line is that most people would not have any serious issues driving an FE1 (non-Z51) car on the track, but GM does not recommend it because the car is not equipped or validated for that use. There are also variable driver skill levels as well to consider. That is why it is a grey area. Thanks for the question.
89X
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 64
Likes: 8
From: Ellicott City Maryland
Anyone willing to sell their C8 Track/Brake duct kit please contact me asap. We bought a used '21 and it didn't have the kit with it. Heading to Sebring Tuesday.
Thanks
Mike
410-707-5304
Mike@89xms.com
Thanks
Mike
410-707-5304
Mike@89xms.com
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