Question about C8 headers
Racer
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 377
Likes: 435
Not saying the ARH headers are bad, i do think they are superior than most brands but again i'm not going to blatantly says "hands down the best, facts are facts, look at this completely ridiculous Dyno that proves nothing other than the car was fully cooled off and the straps were loosened to create the highest reading ever" Lol
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,709
Likes: 7,099
From: Fulshear, TX
Well again... I have proven this "Facts are Facts" statement wrong on plenty of products with actual track testing... I didnt see an iota of gain from adding headers on the car on a road course. Which maybe they do add power but as soon as the car gets any heat in it the timing tables reign the car back into very conservative specs. Further, the flange on ARH headers wasnt perfectly flat which is why the superior factory gasket wont work and they include a thick gasket that i'm sure will fail down the line.
Not saying the ARH headers are bad, i do think they are superior than most brands but again i'm not going to blatantly says "hands down the best, facts are facts, look at this completely ridiculous Dyno that proves nothing other than the car was fully cooled off and the straps were loosened to create the highest reading ever" Lol
Not saying the ARH headers are bad, i do think they are superior than most brands but again i'm not going to blatantly says "hands down the best, facts are facts, look at this completely ridiculous Dyno that proves nothing other than the car was fully cooled off and the straps were loosened to create the highest reading ever" Lol
Racer
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 387
Likes: 577
From: Philly
Yes.
Gains are hard to come by compared to previous generations and the (lack of) ability to tune the car. The ecu will adjust to your mods so that is a plus but its not perfect. For mods, I would recommend a top tier header like ARH, porting your intake manifold and throttle body.
I run an Attack Blue air filter and Brisk Racing spark plugs, Antigravity battery, a drag pack tire setup and some other small details that net me consistent mid 10 second timeslips at 128-130 mph in good air (still using the stock cats).I do believe Nick's headers are the best on the market without question.
@J5isalive I can appreciate the skeptical thinking because I have the same mind set, however, the dyno sheet you may be referring to in the video is from my car. I had the car dyno'd at EFX tuning in NJ before I took it to ARH and then redid it after I got it back from them. The results were the same as stated. No paid endorsement, just the facts.
Gains are hard to come by compared to previous generations and the (lack of) ability to tune the car. The ecu will adjust to your mods so that is a plus but its not perfect. For mods, I would recommend a top tier header like ARH, porting your intake manifold and throttle body.
I run an Attack Blue air filter and Brisk Racing spark plugs, Antigravity battery, a drag pack tire setup and some other small details that net me consistent mid 10 second timeslips at 128-130 mph in good air (still using the stock cats).I do believe Nick's headers are the best on the market without question.
@J5isalive I can appreciate the skeptical thinking because I have the same mind set, however, the dyno sheet you may be referring to in the video is from my car. I had the car dyno'd at EFX tuning in NJ before I took it to ARH and then redid it after I got it back from them. The results were the same as stated. No paid endorsement, just the facts.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,258
Likes: 545
So the dyno run before and after cat delete pipes should be zero gain according to ARH, Quote " We found zero net gains installing our very own high flow cats on a C8" So this video Is wrong?
dyno starts at 23.02.
Last edited by itsonlyairandfuel; Oct 20, 2022 at 12:45 AM.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 697
Likes: 419
From: Armonk, NY
The reason is actually quite simple, most of these aftermarket header brands are using 2.25-2.50" collector outlet flanges which is SMALLER than stock (2.75")! Kooks & Corsa are perfect examples of it, unfortunately. ARH & aFe are by far the best choices on the market considering both have factory-sized outlet flanges to match up to both stock and aftermarket cats, plus are 50-state emissions legal with CARB approval.
I installed my aFe headers working solo in the garage with the car on the ground; no reason to lift it, remove tires, wheel liners, etc. aFe recommends the Titanium Ceramic coated headers for use in the HTC due to thermal management. I have these ones in my car and engine bay temps are actually LOWER than factory temps due to the ceramic coatings keeping the heat where it should be, in the exhaust gas stream, plus improved ventilation airflow without all the bulky factory heatshields taking up space and retaining heat. aFe uses Cerakote Titanium V-164 ceramic coating; I used Cerakote Glacier Titanium C-7900 on my Corsa cats. Both are excellent coatings with great thermal properties. Here's my thread: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...port-cats.html
Titanium Cerakote Ceramic Outside Coating with Copper Ceramic Inside Coating:
This coating combination reduces the outside surface temperature of headers and reduces engine compartment temperatures by as much as 46% vs. non-coated headers. These headers are highly recommended for convertible applications where the top is stored over the engine compartment.
https://afepower.com/afe-power-48-34...oated#overview
I installed my aFe headers working solo in the garage with the car on the ground; no reason to lift it, remove tires, wheel liners, etc. aFe recommends the Titanium Ceramic coated headers for use in the HTC due to thermal management. I have these ones in my car and engine bay temps are actually LOWER than factory temps due to the ceramic coatings keeping the heat where it should be, in the exhaust gas stream, plus improved ventilation airflow without all the bulky factory heatshields taking up space and retaining heat. aFe uses Cerakote Titanium V-164 ceramic coating; I used Cerakote Glacier Titanium C-7900 on my Corsa cats. Both are excellent coatings with great thermal properties. Here's my thread: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...port-cats.html
Titanium Cerakote Ceramic Outside Coating with Copper Ceramic Inside Coating:
This coating combination reduces the outside surface temperature of headers and reduces engine compartment temperatures by as much as 46% vs. non-coated headers. These headers are highly recommended for convertible applications where the top is stored over the engine compartment.
https://afepower.com/afe-power-48-34...oated#overview
So the dyno run before and after cat delete pipes should be zero gain according to ARH, Quote " We found zero net gains installing our very own high flow cats on a C8" So this video Is wrong? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E23z3UtwMOQ dyno starts at 23.02.
AFAIK, it is against Federal law to alter the emissions control system in any way, shape or form. This includes removing the OEM cats and changing them to free flowing cats. It is a big no-no. I ran catless on two of my previous cars. The one with a 20 degree overlap (at 0.050") cam in an LS3 stunk SO bad at idle it would make your eyes burn and the cars behind me at a traffic light would literally back up! Not to mention nobody wanted to inspect it. What was "ok" for shops to do in 2020, they won't touch in 2022. Being subjected to investigations and HUGE fines is simply not worth it for them. Running catless on a modern street car is idiotic. It makes zero sense.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,709
Likes: 7,099
From: Fulshear, TX
My Corsa cats are 49-state EPA-compliant cores and pass state emissions inspection. Cicio, Paragon, & Kooks use the same emissions-friendly cores good everywhere but CA (they're 49-state, but not CARB).
Last edited by Kracka; Oct 20, 2022 at 08:35 AM.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 454
Likes: 272
I know for fact that the ARH are proven performance. I witnessed it the drag strip. One c8 with ARH including bolt-ons and another c8 with bolt-ons but without the ARH. The c8 with the ARH just continously pulled away from the bolt-on c8.....no contest. Do a search on YouTube.....Carlos Rioz and/or RearwheelDrive.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,038
Likes: 878
From: Tampa Florida
I disagree sir. First of all do you have a C8? If you do then you should know. Plan and simple.....put the headers on the other c8 then see what. happens. Please inform us of any c8 without headers that is quicker than the ones with the American Racing Headers but both with the bolt-ons included. Matter of fact most people won't do headers without the additional mods. If you want the ultimate natural aspirated go with American Racing Headers or AFE....the proven ones. I would not do just headers to my C8 without additional mods. And no I haven't done anything to my C8 as of yet. Just prefer to get additional drag strip runs in bonestock form.
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Racer
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 454
Likes: 272
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,709
Likes: 7,099
From: Fulshear, TX
Racer
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 377
Likes: 435
Also confident i have been faster in the 1/4 than AK. LOL
Racer
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 454
Likes: 272
Enjoy your car as you see fit Cracker. Here’s me thinking you would be first round runner up at any competitive event at any drag strip, commonly referred to as a Duck. Bolt on aftermarket stuff to your hearts content. Plenty of folks with first hand experience telling you other that what you think you know. Ingnorane has a price that may cut into your bolt on budget. LMAO
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 1,166
From: Early 2020 Z51 Coupe, Original Owner, Ahwatukee Foothills, AZ
Thanks for asking. I do have a C8. I have no intentions of "hot rodding" mine to improve 1/4-mile performance at a drag strip. I have a purpose-built car for that activity.
Craig Houston at Alaska Raceway Park - YouTube
Craig Houston at Alaska Raceway Park - YouTube
Racer
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 454
Likes: 272
Thanks for asking! The Camaro is nothing special, nor is the owner. It is representative of a well sorted combination that meets the expectations of the established goal. I think that applies to any and all cars and why people choose to modify. I do commend you for your contribution to the forum. If I had spent the amount of money for the parts listed in your signature and achieved the modest increase in power on the dyno that you have, I would be as disappointed as you are. Thanks for sharing that and maybe keeping a fellow enthusiast from making the same mistakes. The silver lining on your cloud is that your not making enough power to hurt the DCT
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,709
Likes: 7,099
From: Fulshear, TX
Enjoy your car as you see fit Cracker. Here’s me thinking you would be first round runner up at any competitive event at any drag strip, commonly referred to as a Duck. Bolt on aftermarket stuff to your hearts content. Plenty of folks with first hand experience telling you other that what you think you know. Ingnorane has a price that may cut into your bolt on budget. LMAO
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,258
Likes: 545
With soler tb and socal ported intake, guess where I got these LOL. Best run 7.78@ 94.15 mph 6000Da in the 1/8 mile. Not dead hooking. Where are you at? PS thanks again for your spare parts. Ron B.
Racer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 290
Likes: 110
From: sarasota florida USA!
In my opinion you see all these dyno comparisions and people freak out over 1 hp. If your dyno sheets say 8 hp increase but you pick up 2 tenths and 2 mph at the track then I’ll go with the track gains. Some people claim big hp from some headers and others say none but it seems everybody that runs them picks up at the track. I’ll take the track gains any day. Just my opinion.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,258
Likes: 545
Just for reference 5000Da Bone Stock 7.95 @93.21 mph, went 93.93 next pass , but slower 60ft. What I am getting at is gains are very hard to come by. Sticky tires are a must. Put stock tires on carlos's car and the results would change.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,038
Likes: 878
From: Tampa Florida
In my opinion you see all these dyno comparisions and people freak out over 1 hp. If your dyno sheets say 8 hp increase but you pick up 2 tenths and 2 mph at the track then I’ll go with the track gains. Some people claim big hp from some headers and others say none but it seems everybody that runs them picks up at the track. I’ll take the track gains any day. Just my opinion.