I think what is lost - is that the C8Z is the first exotic class Corvette. FPC NA high revving. Like a Ferrari and Lamborghini. This is a mid engine car. Again as Jay Leno said - it was going to be a tough pill to swallow for many American car enthusiasts who aren’t used to that concept and type of car - who are used to low end - push rod power.
Again…the C8 ZR1 will be FI - maybe even EV assist - which will be quicker and faster than the C8Z in every way (the ZR1 has always been quicker and faster than the Z06 in every way). The C8Z is still Performante quick and fast - which is solid.

It isn’t about “cool aid” it is about a different car - that GM has never made before - which is unique to Corvette. It isn’t for everyone - but as the numbers of down payments have shown - a lot of people get it - and want it.

 

1000 whp from the LT4 from the factory? No. Unless everything was changed about the LT4 from the factory - starting with the Uber tiny roots blower. 1000 - wheel horsepower as you wrote - from factory still hasn’t been done by GM, Dodge or Ford.

 

Not overlooking, just don't matter in the grand scheme of things for what some of us care about. To me that's like being excited about a really efficient 4 cylinder or something, who'd care about that.... Now add some FI and we can play like with my old Evo, 900awhp is impressive out of a 4 cylinder, a hypothetical really efficient 300hp out of a 4 cylinder, who cares. I'm more impressed with the LT4 stock bottom end vs the VE of the LT6. It is impressive for what it is though, not taking away from that, just not my concern. And maybe the LT6 can handle more power, as much as the LT4, guess we'll see what the future holds.

 

No no, that's not what I meant. I was meaning that if GM tried to pull every little bit of power from the LT4 like they appeared to have done with the LT6 that it would likely have power somewhere in that region. Bolt on C7Z's get almost 800whp without too much fuss, I think GM could've easily pulled another 200 with more efficient blowers, LT6 like dedication, etc.

 

We will have to disagree on what the LT4 can make with the 1.74L “blower” it had. My F1A PC was limited to about 1000 whp and has 2x+ the CFM? There are bolt on fully spun C7Z setups - that are on the ragged edge. There is a difference between what can be and what is sustainable - stock levels - power. You mentioned a 900 whp EVO. Better than a 750 whp Subaru - but not by much - when it comes to staying alive at that power level.

I am sure the planet will mod this car - which makes me cry a little. With the WiFi updates - I think even the FI C8 ZR1 will have a tough time being modded without a stand alone ECU. The NA Huracan platform has done okay there - so a twin turbo setup will likely do similar for the C8Z (if you can mod around the stock ECU or get a stand alone) - but again - what the car is a NA FPC high revving motor - which is based on Euro-exotics. Not a big thing in North America manufacturing - literally ever before. It’s a new concept for many I get it.

I am happy for what it is - some won’t be.

EDIT: and either is okay.

 

I agree with most of what you say but there are some caveats. Ferrari hasn't been NA for a while most likely because NA is getting maxed out for current power levels. As far as Lambo goes and I could be wrong but they're still relatively light I believe, which helps offset the need for FI and a V12 doesn't hurt in instances as well. If they weren't going electric I bet turbos would be in their future. Also I freaking love a FPC, just don't like the limitations of it being NA.

Some people do sound rather cultish with their praise of the C8Z being NA. While the FI crowd probably do to some I do think we have a more justified reason. The NA crowd loses nothing but sound essentially if it were FI, where as we lose the ability to increase performance easily because of it being NA as well as barely being more powerful/faster than the outgoing model if we go by GM's numbers. And I'd be willing to bet most of the NA crowd would've bought it NA or not and the majority could probably care less except that it's the latest performance Vette, in my opinion anyway. I'm a good example, I'm number 4 on my dealer list and want it as well as hate the fact it's limited by being NA.

 

Exactly.

I didn't think for one second, that this will be GM's LAST CHANCE to do this, before we all see the EV world before us, that they won't "return to it's roots". Everyone thought that was a joke. Everyone thought this car would be a 700+hp TT FPC car that costs 85k lol. Like i really can't believe people believed that. Any thought of even discussing against that and everyone was on your throat saying you're wrong, you don't know anything, stop posting blah blah.

And now look at what we got lol. But this isn't about who ended up being right or who ended up being wrong.

The point is what is RIGHT FOR THE C8Z. And it is, what we actually got. A high revving NA car that makes more power than the outgoing z06. An engine that is so perfectly done (at least from reading and watching videos on it), that exotic car makers wish they had done in the past before they switched over to turbo engines.

GM could've done that. But the car would be 140+k, And even though we don't know the MSRP of the z06, i know it'll be around 100k starting. I'm guessing 95k still. But 2 people i've talked to, who work for GM (and they're not salesmen), said it'll be 92k. So we'll see what the actual price is.

GM gave us a z06 that is finally a supercar, before we see this car sail into the sunset as the greatest z06 ever made. I don't know why people are still sad about what we got.

 

I don't believe that this is true. Turbos are just more efficient so better MPG which is why they are so ubiquitous.

The best NA engines make plenty of power. For reference the Cosworth V-12s in the Aston Martin Valkyrie (7.3L/1000HP) and Gordon Murray T.50(3.9L/653HP).

 

Yeah I don't mean with a 1.74L blower, just talking in general. And I agree with sustainability being an issue. I did put a crap ton of miles on my Evo with no issues though. It's demise was caused by the one thing that wasn't built on it, the transmission. I believe the synchro's were going out (I don't know transmissions though) and it started shifting into lower gears so I over revved the **** out of it a few times.

That's where we differ. I believe we can have both a high revving FPC and have it be FI. Just because it's a FPC shouldn't mean it can't have FI. I do understand it may not rev quite as high but it will be a far cry from low revving I would think. I want it all , the best of both worlds so to speak. Again my main grip is that I didn't want to "have to" get the more expensive Vette to satisfy my long term desire for performance growth with this car. I also didn't want to be in the same boat as Vipers when it comes to modding, having to pay exorbitant prices to increase the performance.

 

The Performante is lighter - not by a ton though and makes less HP and torque. It runs about what the C8Z is supposed to run in the 1/4 (mid 10’s).
Believe me - I get it - when it comes to modding and getting more power - I have modded most of my life with builds up to 2000 HP.
One day I was in Vegas and did one of those race an exotic. I wanted the Aventador - which was broken (transmission). I ended up in a Ferrari 458. Which I was disappointed about. They are slow (mid 11’s at 125 MPH) - my future daily is quicker and faster. Then I drove one - and I understood. It was special. And the sound was the major factor in that special experience. It was literally the first time I understood why someone would pay more for less performance.

Since then - driving and racing other exotics for other reasons over the years - I really get it. It is apples and oranges to the modding game. Modding is quicker and faster - no doubt - but the sound and essence of high revving NA cars is simply its own thing. That is why the exotic space has been as potent as it’s been for as long as its been. You are right - new Ferraris and Mclarens are FI now - and there is a reason the 488 holds less value than the 458. The 488 and F8 and both much quicker and faster.

Again - people will mod this C8Z - it cannot be stopped. I get it. I will not - because if I wanted the most performance and modifiability - - I would wait for the ZR1 or simply get a C8 and really mod it. That isn’t my mission. I want it for what it was intended and designed for - a first and last of its kind mid engine FPC high revving exotic. I recognize that isn’t what many want. That said - the desire people are showing - more than any Corvette before it - makes me think (beyond the flippers) this is seen and understood as a special car.

 

Yes this is the greatest Z06 for sure factory vs factory but GM took one of the biggest draws for getting a Z.... modding it for better performance. It's hard to quantify but it seems as though half of the C6Z's are H/C/I cars, a third of C7Z's are at least CAI/pully's/tune so people seemed to love making their Vette better. To me they took arguably one of Corvettes greatest attributes and that's why some people are sad. If you don't mod cars then sure I get it, it doesn't matter to you but again I contest that even if it were FI you'd like it and still buy it.

 

Well yeah displacement can offset NA's power issue and the T.50 engine is miraculous voodoo or witchcraft, I don't know which

 

Again - for me sound of the FPC high revving engine is it. And no - it wouldn’t sound the same with FI - even if they somehow maintained a near 8600 rpm (despite the powerband likely completely changing) - turbos muffle sound. And they sound horrid compared to full out NA. Do a side by side for a 458 and a 488. It’s laughably different.

 

I'm not sure if you noticed but EVERYONE is interested in the C8Z. Are you on other car forums? I'm sure you are. Because i am.

You know what people say about the C8Z? They say, "i never was interested in corvettes until they revealed the C8 z06, if the wait list isn't so long, i'd get one. Oh well, i'll have to wait for them to pop up on the used market". Those words or similar, have been said across the many forums i'm on. I read the same thing on facebook discussions. I see the same thing in IG comments. While that might be a dumb way to see where there's interest, the fact of the matter is, i been into corvettes for almost a decade now, dating back to the C5. And i NEVER have seen so much interest in corvettes from people who do not even like corvettes, UNTIL THE C8 GENERATION.

It doesn't matter if i mod cars or not. I owned tons of modified cars in my day. The C7Z was the first car i actually didn't do anything to it besides an intake, xpipe and PTB. It was good enough for me.

If the C8Z ended up TT, i would've bought it, loved it, and kept it stock. With the C8Z being NA. I'm going to buy it, love it, and keep it stock. So i don't understand what you're trying to say.

The days of extensively modifying a car like this, is probably over. I highly doubt even if the ZR1 ends up being TT will be tunable, and if so, might be EXTREMELY difficult as regulations become more strict. We didn't even get the z06 yet and it's only going to get more strict from here. I feel bad to those who actually feel like they can modify these cars anymore lol. I think those days are done.

Let's just enjoy what GM gave us. They're engineers. I'm sure they did the car just right in factory form.

 

Exactly. Been a fan of the 458 since it debuted. I couldn't afford it. I still can't lol.

GM gave us their version of it. And i love GM so much for that! I can't wait to get my ferrari z06 458 edition!! LOL

 

Yeah closest thing I've driven is a GT3RS in a similar fashion, probably a far cry from a 458. I picked it because it was the raciest car in the fleet.

I do get all that. Stock for stock it's gonna be an awesome car, 100%. Like I've said, I'm more mad about the dealer markups as even though it was NA I had still planned on getting it anyway. But with the markups if that car doesn't do something miraculous for me knowing I paid 30k to 50k over msrp..... Driving a 160 to 180 thousand dollar car that a part of me resents will eat at my soul . I've said it before but it'll be like my GS all over again, I get out and stare, damn you're sexy. I drive it and am like eh with a constant desire to make it as fast as it should be. And I know the Z and the GS are in different realms but I said the same thing with my 903awhp Evo. I was like my next car is gonna be a beast, ain't gonna be limited again and that was in 04-05 when most cars were doing good to have hp in the 600's. I was of the mindset that even if she stays stock it'll be something that has the potential to do whatever I want with it.

What was you 2000hp car? I wanted my next street car to be like 1100-1200hp traction permitting and depending on the car we're talking about. C8's seem to hook really well so I'm eager to se how they do with some power.

 

Yeah I've admitted it sounds better but that doesn't do much for me. I think the 458 sounds great, I also think 488, Mustang GT, pretty much any Vette, F-type R, AMG, etc etc sound good but that is a perk to me not a reason that I'm gonna buy the car. And again I concede that the 458 sounds better but I don't think the 488 or newer Ferraris sound bad, definitely doesn't sound that much better that I'm gonna take the 458 over a newer one. That's just me though YMMV

 

I'm not really but I don't disagree with that at all, I'm just disagreeing that the popularity is because of the engine being NA. I think people would want it regardless because it's a badass car, not because it's NA.

Well no offense intended but that wouldn't be good enough for me and luckily with the C7Z I had an choice. The C8Z not so much by the looks of it. The point is we've always had a choice until now. Still an awesome car but it is most likely gonna stay what it is minus a few that can afford to break open the motor.

That's exactly what I'm saying, you would be happy and love it either way so it shouldn't matter to you if it's NA or not. I on the other hand am limited for what my plans were for this car.

I pray you're wrong but only time will tell. That takes away a huge dynamic of the car world. I never thought I'd utter the words but I might not even be a car enthusiast anymore if that's the case. I mean if they make a factory car fast enough then sure, there's no need for modding but my definition of fast is way different than a 10.6 in the quarter.

Oh it's a nice car for sure, no doubt about it.

 

The 458 is still a contender for me - despite being slow. I cannot explain that car - and I realize it’s subjective - but it just does it for me. It’s a very special car. The Performante is a 458 on steroids lol - it’s so loud and aggressive and a full second quicker. The Huracan EVO is also a contender.
I am hoping that the C8Z provides that feeling. I have heard it rev and it seems like it will be enough - although it was still pretty muted. I am buying this car for a different reason. It’s about enjoying the ride aurally vs just performance stats. I never thought I would write that - but that is how I feel today.

I had a bunch of higher powered modified cars that I raced for a few Shops in the US and Canada. At the time - this Alpha 16 setup was as quick and fast as you could get (in 2014). Now it is a middle of the road build. The car was high 7 second capable at 185 MPH. I wasn’t sponsored enough to risk lifting the head so I kept it at one setting below max - about 1450 whp running 8.3 at 175 MPH.

 

Nice, AMS is who built my car, my EVO. A fairly well known Evo in the mid 2000's. I wish I could afford more than one car to play with but I can't. That's why I want a car that does all things very well and had had high hopes for the C8Z which is still an awesome car, just didn't seem to do quite what I wanted but we'll see.