Hi Mitchell,

I totally agree with you. Take it from someone who has tuned vehcles for the masses. I can't stress the importance of having development engineers totally in touch with the spirit of the car, the customers, and the ability of the tire patch to communicate to the driver. It's daunting but doable, assuming the engineer tuning it is in touch with the expectations and the end result.

Thanks, Jim

 

^^^^ And I'd want nobody else tuning mine.

 

Hey Folks,

Don't have my Z06 yet, but I do have a 2023 C8 Z51. Took my 2002 Z28 out for a drive last night and the steering feel is much better than the '23. In fact the cars I own without electric steering all have better steering feel than the ones with electric steering.

Not progress in my view.

Y'all take care,
Robert

 

When you, one of the quickest drivers in the world at any track you go to, is uncomfortable in a car at speed, my suspicion is there's room for suspension tuning improvement. Your opinion is nothing but significant.

As has been said, thank you very much for sharing your insights! I for one am grateful you take the time to chime in once in awhile to share your immeasurable knowledge.

 

I've never driven a GT3 RS but I do have a 992 GTS and had a 991.1 GTS. Both of those cars are never scary on the highway at ridiculous speeds and have wonderful steering feel. So, it is not impossible for it to be better without it being scary and darty. If Jim hasn't driven a non GT Porsche car, maybe he should so that the engineers would know what to strive for. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

I find the middle setting for steering feel to be the most natural.

 

Jim, respectfully your bias might be showing a bit here. No doubt the Porsche steering is very lively, but it is millimeter precise, extremely informative, and having owned all the Z06's from C5, C6, C7, and C8 they are all "dead" feeling to me compared to the Porsche GT cars. Preference perhaps.

Not a dig on you or the Vettes, but criticizing Porsche GT car steering compared to any Z06, yikes. Understood the design limitations are different, but the target audiences are much the same across Z06 and GT3/4. I have owned several of both and would love to have the Porsche steering in the Z06. The seats too, but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

You miss the point… steering feel at the limit at 100+ on track is very different than twisty backroads going 40-60. What feels “lively” on the latter can be unstable in the former.

As I said before, these cars feel great on track at speed… they need to be driven hard and fast. Putting around at lower speeds I can see the criticism.

Even on my annual Tail of the Dragon trip the C8 steering feels excellent… go drive the car hard.

 

Agree to disagree, I have had my C8 Z06 on track and the steering is dead compared to a GT4/GT3. The brakes are even worse. Not sure why folks can't take criticism on a car. The Porsches aren't perfect either.

 

Curious what tracks you run and what your lap times are and your background/experience level? The brakes on my Sitingrays were excellent. Best feel and most consistent performance of any Corvette I've ever tracked. (C5/6/7 before hand).

 

I don't think lap times are relevant when you are comparing steering feel to other cars. No one is disputing the capability of the Z on track. I was faster in both my corvettes than my Porsches but the Porsches are more satisfying in terms of steering feel in all conditions. Not just 9/10's on a track. I'm not arguing with you either but have you driven the other cars being discussed?

 

I'm quick enough, but it's obvious if you think Stingray brakes are excellent we just differ vastly in opinion. I feel like I'm in an episode of the twilight zone, folks preferring steering and brake feel of a Corvette over a Porsche GT car.

 

I sold Porsches for a year, but it was awhile back. I have tracked a 997 GT3, but it was as student's car and I drove it lightly. Pace matters... a Cayman/Boxster feels excellent on a twisty back road where a C8 can feel boring, but then you take the C8 to VIR and hit the esses at 130 and it feels epic.

You dodged the question... I never said I preferred the brake feel to a Porsche GT car... simply that it's a well engineered system. I have been tracking modern Corvettes for 20 years and have been instructing/racing since 2011. I'm no Max Verstappen, but I've held some class records and driven all kinds of cars on track. My C5 racecar was very quick, and it'd stop, but the pedal often got a little long, or pads would judder, and the car will dance some. C7 was good... nothing crazy but similar characteristics to a C5/6. Get in the C8 and the car is incredibly stable under threshold braking. The rear weight bias makes it squat like a Porsche. I was running 2:05s at VIR OEM stock in traffic hitting 152-154 on each straight and the car stopped over and over and over with excellent consistent feel.

You literally have the calibration engineer of the C7 posting in here explaining their strategy and targets and many of you aren't in a position to understand it. A heavy car with large tires won't feel light/nimble tossing it around on a back road at 40-60 mph... it will come into it's own on track driving all out by an expert.

 

Quite a condescending rant there, not really a point in arguing nor do I feel the need to justify my opinion like you do with lap time quotes or my resume. Enjoy the rarified air where only your opinion is correct.

 

So.... basically "I've had my C8Z on track" is a lie.... or you've done some charity touring laps?

 

Your level of arrogance is astonishing. Yeah, I just drove around on track in my C8Z at 30mph sipping a coffee. I've been around VIR several seconds faster than your quoted C8 time in a stock GT4 with 100HP less, who cares? So what else do you want to fabricate to make yourself feel better and try to invalidate my opinion? I'm also an engineer with 30 years of industry experience, so I'm quite capable of both understanding Jim's comments as well as providing my own opinion. People like you baffle me.

 

So I’ll say that I’ve now started to appreciate this. Went on a very spirited rip through the boonies today. Over 80mph the dead/heavy steering feel transitions to a very light and lively wheel. It’s remarkably different. Never really had the experience in any previous car I’ve owned, and now I understand why ‘track’ steering is so heavy feeling at slow speeds.

 

Having come out of a 718 GT4 I had for 2 yrs and at least 50 track days I can say it is an amazing and very intuitive car. I've been tracking for about 20 yrs so not a rookie and I felt the cyborg that was the car and me had been maxed. I had 7 track days last fall in the Z and I have to say the ceiling is much higher than the GT4 and I did not find steering feel was a limiting factor at all. It is not a Porsche, it doesn't have the torsional rigidity of a Porsche, it is a whole nother beast a whole nother adventure. Tracks around here open in April and I am looking forward to exploring the limits. I don't think you will regret the move.

 

These 2 post hit on what I would suggest you all add to the conversation.
Steering feedback and feel may always be a challenge in an electrical steering car. It's probably just inherent in the set up. Nothing new here.

However it seems for the purposes of discussion you all should include what steering mode you have tethered to the driving mode you are using.
And state the driving mode you are using.
Same should be done anytime brake feedback and feel is discussed.

Additionally "Feedback" and "Feel" though related are 2 different characteristics that are often used interchangeably in discussions but probably shouldn't be.

With the many adjustable settings available in the C8 it is difficult to make a one fits all statement about the steering or brake feel on a C8.
Especially if we aren't all using the same settings to compare apples with apples.

DAR

 

From my racing (stuck in traffic in Northern VA) I prefer the feel of track steering the best