C8 Z06 vs C7 ZR1 High Speed Acceleration Analysis
06-03-2022, 03:37 PM
#101
With an 8 speed transmission it would have been nice to setup the car for top speed at ~redline in 6th and adjust the lower gears accordingly.
Instead it looks like top speed is pretty much redline in 5th, which makes 5th pretty tall.
The GT350 also has top speed at redline in 5th (180 MPH). This makes sense since it’s a 6 speed, but that choice does make the lower gears a bit tall as well, especially for the street where you basically get one redline shift.
I don’t necessarily agree that the current gearing is a problem, or that acceleration will be a disaster, but with all the extra gears available, IMO there would be some improvements with a different set of ratios.
-T
Instead it looks like top speed is pretty much redline in 5th, which makes 5th pretty tall.
The GT350 also has top speed at redline in 5th (180 MPH). This makes sense since it’s a 6 speed, but that choice does make the lower gears a bit tall as well, especially for the street where you basically get one redline shift.
I don’t necessarily agree that the current gearing is a problem, or that acceleration will be a disaster, but with all the extra gears available, IMO there would be some improvements with a different set of ratios.
-T
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06-03-2022, 03:45 PM
#102
06-03-2022, 03:53 PM
#103
06-03-2022, 03:54 PM
#104
06-03-2022, 03:59 PM
#105
Melting Slicks
Edit: Should add the C8 Stingray redlines in 4th gear at about 122 MPH/116 MPH(Z51) so it will be in 5th at 130, but the Z06 would be in 4th, which it is not.
Last edited by z28lt1; 06-03-2022 at 04:04 PM.
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Telepierre (06-03-2022)
06-03-2022, 06:39 PM
#106
Drifting
Thread Starter
I dont see any reason to do these gear ratios other than for the reason I highlighted before that higher hp variants need those tall gears to utilize and reach very speeds. I’m thinking GM will be able to hit 225 mph with 1,000 hp Zora and claim 0-60 times of very low 2s, below 10s 1/4 mile and trap higher than cars like 765lt.
The whole mpg argument is moot when you have 8 gears. The cost of producing different gear sets is very high for a car at this price point. As they have been working on FPC 5.5 liter for 8 years. They have been working on the ZR1 and Zora. Its foolish the assume they havent factored in cost into all these variants. There is no way to pull of $89k mid engine car and not cut costs somewhere.
The whole mpg argument is moot when you have 8 gears. The cost of producing different gear sets is very high for a car at this price point. As they have been working on FPC 5.5 liter for 8 years. They have been working on the ZR1 and Zora. Its foolish the assume they havent factored in cost into all these variants. There is no way to pull of $89k mid engine car and not cut costs somewhere.
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Z0HS1CK (06-03-2022)
06-03-2022, 08:47 PM
#107
Burning Brakes
If it keeps the cost down, I can understand it. I really have no idea what a different gear would cost, I thought it wouldn't be much but apparently it is. Bring on that $88,900 msrp!
06-03-2022, 09:53 PM
#108
I don't understand how an entire design team dedicated to producing America's finest achievement in sports car engineering could drop the ball so badly with something so simple as transmission gearing. Corvettes had 3 and 4 gears for decades, now there are EIGHT. But those 8 are not used. Boggles the mind. Disappointed but still excited at all the other goodness the car will bring.
06-03-2022, 11:27 PM
#109
Le Mans Master
06-04-2022, 02:11 AM
#110
GT3 has a modded PDK just like the C8 Z06 has a modded DCT.
As the various 911 PDK specs I posted clearly show. The point of my post is to invalidate UE false claims that the Porsche 911 line of cars EACH receive a bespoke tailored transmission. Indeed they are as series as anybody else's
As the various 911 PDK specs I posted clearly show. The point of my post is to invalidate UE false claims that the Porsche 911 line of cars EACH receive a bespoke tailored transmission. Indeed they are as series as anybody else's
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Skeptical (06-04-2022)
06-04-2022, 02:20 AM
#111
I dont see any reason to do these gear ratios other than for the reason I highlighted before that higher hp variants need those tall gears to utilize and reach very speeds. I’m thinking GM will be able to hit 225 mph with 1,000 hp Zora and claim 0-60 times of very low 2s, below 10s 1/4 mile and trap higher than cars like 765lt.
The whole mpg argument is moot when you have 8 gears. The cost of producing different gear sets is very high for a car at this price point. As they have been working on FPC 5.5 liter for 8 years. They have been working on the ZR1 and Zora. Its foolish the assume they havent factored in cost into all these variants. There is no way to pull of $89k mid engine car and not cut costs somewhere.
The whole mpg argument is moot when you have 8 gears. The cost of producing different gear sets is very high for a car at this price point. As they have been working on FPC 5.5 liter for 8 years. They have been working on the ZR1 and Zora. Its foolish the assume they havent factored in cost into all these variants. There is no way to pull of $89k mid engine car and not cut costs somewhere.
It is obvious that the cost of R&D and tooling a new bespoke DCT for the corvette has been a very costly endeavor based on the additional power and torque the DCT delivers vis a vis the competition.
These high costs are not absorbed by cost cutting. The high costs are absorbed and spread by volume. Volume is the name of the game to turn a 500K car into a 90K car.
06-04-2022, 02:20 AM
#112
You can compare lap times at VIR during Lightning Lap events through the years here: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/
A few years back a Grand Sport C7 with a Manual was .1 of a second behind a Porsche GT3 that had PDK.
I think some of your fears may be misplaced considering that Grand Sport had aero, 40 less HP, and a slower shifting transmission.
A few years back a Grand Sport C7 with a Manual was .1 of a second behind a Porsche GT3 that had PDK.
I think some of your fears may be misplaced considering that Grand Sport had aero, 40 less HP, and a slower shifting transmission.
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06-04-2022, 03:40 AM
#113
Hoping this "unofficial" news on times at VIR becomes "official" or at least confirmed but another source at some point, because that is great news.
As far as the manual and shift points go, please keep in mind that is the maximum speed you can downshift in. That doesn't necessarily mean the redline of the below gear. It may be, but it also maybe that GM is giving you a few hundred RPM or so on the downshift so you don't instantly bang the limiter. You can't downshift to 4th above 140, but the limiter might actually put us a few MPH above that -- not that the few extra MPH/RPM is going to change this discussion much.
As far as the manual and shift points go, please keep in mind that is the maximum speed you can downshift in. That doesn't necessarily mean the redline of the below gear. It may be, but it also maybe that GM is giving you a few hundred RPM or so on the downshift so you don't instantly bang the limiter. You can't downshift to 4th above 140, but the limiter might actually put us a few MPH above that -- not that the few extra MPH/RPM is going to change this discussion much.
06-04-2022, 08:07 AM
#114
You can compare lap times at VIR during Lightning Lap events through the years here: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/
A few years back a Grand Sport C7 with a Manual was .1 of a second behind a Porsche GT3 that had PDK.
I think some of your fears may be misplaced considering that Grand Sport had aero, 40 less HP, and a slower shifting transmission.
A few years back a Grand Sport C7 with a Manual was .1 of a second behind a Porsche GT3 that had PDK.
I think some of your fears may be misplaced considering that Grand Sport had aero, 40 less HP, and a slower shifting transmission.
So? This car will push 20+ past that VIR easily.
06-04-2022, 11:07 AM
#115
Some in this comment thread think the corvette will be slow and the sky is falling, they'll be beat to work by someone in a Porsche because their shiny new ZO6 can't accelerate to 160mph as fast, etc... So I showed an example of a Corvette monstering a GT3 that it had no business coming within one tenth of a second of with Aero, less hp, and a manual (slower) transmission only to be summarily dismissed for... what reason?
06-04-2022, 04:02 PM
#116
Le Mans Master
You can do the math. You are not getting much past 140 if at all in 4th.
06-04-2022, 04:07 PM
#117
Le Mans Master
GT3 has a modded PDK just like the C8 Z06 has a modded DCT.
As the various 911 PDK specs I posted clearly show. The point of my post is to invalidate UE false claims that the Porsche 911 line of cars EACH receive a bespoke tailored transmission. Indeed they are as series as anybody else's
As the various 911 PDK specs I posted clearly show. The point of my post is to invalidate UE false claims that the Porsche 911 line of cars EACH receive a bespoke tailored transmission. Indeed they are as series as anybody else's
06-04-2022, 04:32 PM
#118
Drifting
Thread Starter
GT3 has a modded PDK just like the C8 Z06 has a modded DCT.
As the various 911 PDK specs I posted clearly show. The point of my post is to invalidate UE false claims that the Porsche 911 line of cars EACH receive a bespoke tailored transmission. Indeed they are as series as anybody else's
As the various 911 PDK specs I posted clearly show. The point of my post is to invalidate UE false claims that the Porsche 911 line of cars EACH receive a bespoke tailored transmission. Indeed they are as series as anybody else's
To my knowledge:
GT3/RS : different gear set and clutches
GT4: different gear set
GT4RS : different gear set and clutches
Turbo S/GTS/Base : different gear set
Turbo S : SHARES the gear set as the GTS and base but has a different clutch pack
And of all the arguments we have here, your point is valid only about Turbo/GTS/Base sharing the gear set. But you have missed the entire point that these GT cars get SPECIAL TREATMENT which Corvette’s Z classes dont get AS MUCH. My ZR1 shares the same M7 as Z06 which is same as Stingray. This is a compromise. How can you have a 755 hp/715 ft lbs car share the transmission gear ratios as a 495 hp stingray? How does this make sense?
It makes sense because it costs a ton of money to research, develop, assemble, and warranty these bespoke transmission. Changing clutches or the oil pan is not in the same realm of cost and complexity as gear ratios. The only reason GM is doing this with Z06 is because they need a transmission that will work with a 1000 hp car.
06-05-2022, 11:42 AM
#119
Telepierre, sometimes you come across as a smart guy and sometimes I feel like you are the type of person who just wants to twist the truth and believe one version (your version). You have misrepresented what I said. You KNOW my intention was to highlight Porsche’s GT cars receive BESPOKE transmissions versus their regular counterparts. I also implied BESPOKE means different gear sets. Not just clutch paks. GT3/RS have a bespoke gear set. This gear set is different than GT4 and in fact I believe GT4RS has also a different gear set than GT4 and GT3. The manual transmission found in GT3 is different than GT4. And GT3’s manual cant be found in GTS either.
To my knowledge:
GT3/RS : different gear set and clutches
GT4: different gear set
GT4RS : different gear set and clutches
Turbo S/GTS/Base : different gear set
Turbo S : SHARES the gear set as the GTS and base but has a different clutch pack
And of all the arguments we have here, your point is valid only about Turbo/GTS/Base sharing the gear set. But you have missed the entire point that these GT cars get SPECIAL TREATMENT which Corvette’s Z classes dont get AS MUCH. My ZR1 shares the same M7 as Z06 which is same as Stingray. This is a compromise. How can you have a 755 hp/715 ft lbs car share the transmission gear ratios as a 495 hp stingray? How does this make sense?
It makes sense because it costs a ton of money to research, develop, assemble, and warranty these bespoke transmission. Changing clutches or the oil pan is not in the same realm of cost and complexity as gear ratios. The only reason GM is doing this with Z06 is because they need a transmission that will work with a 1000 hp car.
To my knowledge:
GT3/RS : different gear set and clutches
GT4: different gear set
GT4RS : different gear set and clutches
Turbo S/GTS/Base : different gear set
Turbo S : SHARES the gear set as the GTS and base but has a different clutch pack
And of all the arguments we have here, your point is valid only about Turbo/GTS/Base sharing the gear set. But you have missed the entire point that these GT cars get SPECIAL TREATMENT which Corvette’s Z classes dont get AS MUCH. My ZR1 shares the same M7 as Z06 which is same as Stingray. This is a compromise. How can you have a 755 hp/715 ft lbs car share the transmission gear ratios as a 495 hp stingray? How does this make sense?
It makes sense because it costs a ton of money to research, develop, assemble, and warranty these bespoke transmission. Changing clutches or the oil pan is not in the same realm of cost and complexity as gear ratios. The only reason GM is doing this with Z06 is because they need a transmission that will work with a 1000 hp car.
You are so eloquent yet lack the basic (and I mean BASIC) understandings of automotive dynamics.
It could be your car skills are so deficient you really don't understand what you are posting try to leverage your wordsmithing to get out of trouble.
There is absolutely nothing you can write to get out of your last PDK bespoke whooper. In fact (confession) I did not read any of it.
Nonetheless, you go ahead and tune in to the LeMans racing this weekend and try to make another useless thread on how really slow the LT6 is over there.
Finally, on behalf of the Corvette Forum a hearfelt thank you for all your work to bring a new and younger cadre to the Corvette fold.
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ZRacerLE (06-06-2022)
06-05-2022, 11:58 AM
#120
Drifting
Thread Starter
UnhandledException,
You are so eloquent yet lack the basic (and I mean BASIC) understandings of automotive dynamics.
It could be your car skills are so deficient you really don't understand what you are posting try to leverage your wordsmithing to get out of trouble.
There is absolutely nothing you can write to get out of your last PDK bespoke whooper. In fact (confession) I did not read any of it.
Nonetheless, you go ahead and tune in to the LeMans racing this weekend and try to make another useless thread on how really slow the LT6 is over there.
Finally, on behalf of the Corvette Forum a hearfelt thank you for all your work to bring a new and younger cadre to the Corvette fold.
You are so eloquent yet lack the basic (and I mean BASIC) understandings of automotive dynamics.
It could be your car skills are so deficient you really don't understand what you are posting try to leverage your wordsmithing to get out of trouble.
There is absolutely nothing you can write to get out of your last PDK bespoke whooper. In fact (confession) I did not read any of it.
Nonetheless, you go ahead and tune in to the LeMans racing this weekend and try to make another useless thread on how really slow the LT6 is over there.
Finally, on behalf of the Corvette Forum a hearfelt thank you for all your work to bring a new and younger cadre to the Corvette fold.