When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Luxury items, like sports cars no one needs, are the first things to get hit when the economy is in the crapper. Lots of you are choosing to ignore history
I’m not ignoring history and have seen several cycles through my life. I’m pointing out that the Z06 and C8 platform has brought in many interested parties that would have never considered a modern Corvette before because they considered them low brow, however misguided that assessment might have been. I’m one of those people, along with almost half a dozen other country club members just at my club here in the heart of Silicon Valley. None of us are going to be affected by a recession to the point that we will reconsider a Z06 purchase. If anything, we will just scoop up the opportunities that are created by those people who do have to bail. An enormous amount of additional wealth was created for many people during the past 3 years and while some luxury items like second or third homes may be reconsidered, a Z06 isn’t expensive for those buyers.
I’m not ignoring history and have seen several cycles through my life. I’m pointing out that the Z06 and C8 platform has brought in many interested parties that would have never considered a modern Corvette before because they considered them low brow, however misguided that assessment might have been. I’m one of those people, along with almost half a dozen other country club members just at my club here in the heart of Silicon Valley. None of us are going to be affected by a recession to the point that we will reconsider a Z06 purchase. If anything, we will just scoop up the opportunities that are created by those people who do have to bail. An enormous amount of additional wealth was created for many people during the past 3 years and while some luxury items like second or third homes may be reconsidered, a Z06 isn’t expensive for those buyers.
For every wealthy buyer of a supercar there is a person who is going above their means to buy one. Actually that ratio could be 1:4 rather than 1:1, for example.
Keep that in mind. No one said demand would drop to zero, just that it would drop due to economic forces (the amount that it would drop is up for debate).
Pre pandemic: Perhaps 1,000 buyers worldwide for a car that was a dream only. MacMulkin list at about 50 names. (mm x 20)
Pandemic onset plus 6 months: Macmulkin list at 300, interest growing.
Pandemic 1 year: MM list at 600.
GM Z06 Announcement: MM list at 1100. Perhaps every list in the country at capacity. No Ciocca list. Many feeling that Ciocca was the way to go.
Ciocca List Day: 4000+ names in less than an hour. National demand now estimated at 20,000 to 40,000 cars over the life of the program. 12-15 years of C8 production estimated.
Pre Recession: Demand seems incredible.
Press Release: Demand now solidified as the car is considered by many to be the last best Internal Combustion Corvette ever. Demand increases slightly again confounding the sceptics.
Production start: Late Summer and production line constraints dictate that no more than 10 percent of production can be Z06 cars and Z07 cars are even more rare. Total production for the 2022 calendar year is estimated at 500 cars for the world market. MM and the big dealers get virtually no allocations. Unknown number of CTF cars made. No further orders taken for 2022. Demand continues to maintain intensity.
Recession Start: September 1, 2022. Gas prices begin their rise to $10.00 a gallon, and the forecast by many is that the demand curve will flatten. Home sales drop but due to inflation prices remain static. Interest rates rise, over leveraged people get driven out and others reap the benefits.
Estimation. There will be a huge hit in demand, perhaps 20,000 would be buyers will decide not to pursue a car. The serious ones, in since the beginning have all made plans long ago. The constraints and brilliance of the car as well as its complexity hold production to 10-12 percent of total, leaving 2,500 cars per year nationwide as a production rate. With only 10,000 to 15,000 buyers in the country left demand is still exceeding supply by a considerable margin.
Result. Dealers will be not be giving them away as party favors....they will be expensive and difficult to obtain. And that is in 2025 when production hits full rate. For 2023 I do not think many of us at the 100+ positions on the MM list will see a car for at least another year. Im expecting a delivery in 2024 at this point.
Last edited by international blue; 10-18-2022 at 10:36 AM.
Pre pandemic: Perhaps 1,000 buyers worldwide for a car that was a dream only. MacMulkin list at about 50 names. (mm x 20)
Pandemic onset plus 6 months: Macmulkin list at 300, interest growing.
Pandemic 1 year: MM list at 600.
GM Z06 Announcement: MM list at 1100. Perhaps every list in the country at capacity. No Ciocca list. Many feeling that Ciocca was the way to go.
Ciocca List Day: 4000+ names in less than an hour. National demand now estimated at 20,000 to 40,000 cars over the life of the program. 12-15 years of C8 production estimated.
Pre Recession: Demand seems incredible.
Press Release: Demand now solidified as the car is considered by many to be the last best Internal Combustion Corvette ever. Demand increases slightly again confounding the sceptics.
Production start: Late Summer and production line constraints dictate that no more than 10 percent of production can be Z06 cars and Z07 cars are even more rare. Total production for the 2022 calendar year is estimated at 500 cars for the world market. MM and the big dealers get virtually no allocations. Unknown number of CTF cars made. No further orders taken for 2022. Demand continues to maintain intensity.
Recession Start: September 1, 2022. Gas prices begin their rise to $10.00 a gallon, and the forecast by many is that the demand curve will flatten. Home sales drop but due to inflation prices remain static. Interest rates rise, over leveraged people get driven out and others reap the benefits.
Estimation. There will be a huge hit in demand, perhaps 20,000 would be buyers will decide not to pursue a car. The serious ones, in since the beginning have all made plans long ago. The constraints and brilliance of the car as well as its complexity hold production to 10-12 percent of total, leaving 2,500 cars per year nationwide as a production rate. With only 10,000 to 15,000 buyers in the country left demand is still exceeding supply by a considerable margin.
Result. Dealers will be not be giving them away as party favors....they will be expensive and difficult to obtain. And that is in 2025 when production hits full rate. For 2023 I do not think many of us at the 100+ positions on the MM list will see a car for at least another year. Im expecting a delivery in 2024 at this point.
I can't remember if you're intending to wait for a Z07 or not, but if you're just going with the base Z06 then I believe you have a very good chance of getting your car in '23. Z07 allocations, on the other hand, will probably be a total crap shoot for years to come.
While this thread is when will C8Z06 hit the market and put the world on Notice. Quite frankly it's been way way too long meanwhile
got a call from
my local Porsche dealer these are showing up and actually being delivered to customers.
once again
German design and engineering
prove it on the race track and nordschlefei
build cars
ship the cars
German U boat sighted inland in Philadelphia
artic grey carbon buckets Weissach package
Der nue GT4RS Ya ya volt Carbon intake to feed GT3 engine to 9000 rpm
easy to add another 50 horses
where is my C8 Z06 ? Shouldn't be that hard to build as it's essentially a 9 year old Ferrari 458 updated improved enhanced design. Truly looking forward to it.
[/QUOTE]Shouldn't be that hard to build as it's essentially a 9 year old Ferrari 458 updated design [/QUOTE]
You are so right. The Ferrari 458 update is a bit delayed, but that is to be expected as its so big and badder and nastier. Enjoy your updated 356 replica. Get one of those hats to go with it.
Incidentally the new upside down bathtub car has a production run coming of 2.5 years with 2,000 coming to the USA. In So-Cal they have a $100,000.00 ADM for the available cars...KInda sad it starts at $141,000.00....makes it tough to talk "Value".
Last edited by international blue; 10-18-2022 at 08:24 PM.
Shouldn't be that hard to build as it's essentially a 9 year old Ferrari 458 updated design [/QUOTE]
You are so right. The Ferrari 458 update is a bit delayed, but that is to be expected as its so big and badder and nastier. Enjoy your updated 356 replica. Get one of those hats to go with it.
Incidentally the new upside down bathtub car has a production run coming of 2.5 years with 2,000 coming to the USA. In So-Cal they have a $100,000.00 ADM for the available cars...KInda sad it starts at $141,000.00....makes it tough to talk "Value".[/QUOTE]
When I got my C8 a couple of years ago I was looking at Fabspeed for exhaust options. Went to my local Porsche/Exotic tuning shop that is very much a track oriented group that regularly tunes cars for executives, sports team owners, etc. here in the Silicon Valley area. They run their cars hard in track and racing environments and have many years of experience. When I told them I was thinking of getting a Fabspeed exhaust, they told me they would never recommend it for their customers and advised me to wait for other options. When I asked why they said Fabspeed is usually first to market but in their experience, their products aren’t built with the quality that their track oriented clientele would expect. They viewed them as a company that is good at marketing with an emphasis on being first to market. They were not at all impressed with the quality of the Fabspeed products that had come through their shop.
I never thought about it much after that, but I’d have to say the way Fabspeed shills on this forum only gives further credence to everything my local tuner told me. Just my opinion, but if Fabspeed is trying to grow their Corvette market, they haven’t done themselves any favors here. I know when I get my Z06 they won’t even be on the radar.
Shouldn't be that hard to build as it's essentially a 9 year old Ferrari 458 updated design
You are so right. The Ferrari 458 update is a bit delayed, but that is to be expected as its so big and badder and nastier. Enjoy your updated 356 replica. Get one of those hats to go with it.
Incidentally the new upside down bathtub car has a production run coming of 2.5 years with 2,000 coming to the USA. In So-Cal they have a $100,000.00 ADM for the available cars...KInda sad it starts at $141,000.00....makes it tough to talk "Value".[/QUOTE]
When I got my C8 a couple of years ago I was looking at Fabspeed for exhaust options. Went to my local Porsche/Exotic tuning shop that is very much a track oriented group that regularly tunes cars for executives, sports team owners, etc. here in the Silicon Valley area. They run their cars hard in track and racing environments and have many years of experience. When I told them I was thinking of getting a Fabspeed exhaust, they told me they would never recommend it for their customers and advised me to wait for other options. When I asked why they said Fabspeed is usually first to market but in their experience, their products aren’t built with the quality that their track oriented clientele would expect. They viewed them as a company that is good at marketing with an emphasis on being first to market. They were not at all impressed with the quality of the Fabspeed products that had come through their shop.
I never thought about it much after that, but I’d have to say the way Fabspeed shills on this forum only gives further credence to everything my local tuner told me. Just my opinion, but if Fabspeed is trying to grow their Corvette market, they haven’t done themselves any favors here. I know when I get my Z06 they won’t even be on the radar.[/QUOTE]
==================
WOW you guys take it personally when you should not. Information is good and factual.
GM needs to follow through, build and deliver the wonderful awesome car the C8Z06 represents.
. I got a CALL from my Porsche dealer and I could not believe GT4RS cars were actually being delivered. They requested i bring over one the very best last 993 RS 3.8 Aircooled cars and my GT4 for a photo shoot. I shared it as its news to all regardless of sportscar preferences .
Jealousy in the tuning world exists and the “shop you are likely quoting as bigtime ……is a small Porsche only outfit with a big ego. QUALITY and durability at Fabspeed are the ultimate.
HJS Emissions technology Menden Germany appointed Fabspeed Motorsport as their exclusive importer of catalytic converters for all of North & South America and Helical UK limited also appointed Fabspeed as their exclusive importer of super quality exhaust valves for North & South America.
These super premium tier 1 global parts racing components are used on McLaren, Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini , Pagani, Koe****segg and Porsche. At Fabspeed our engineers use these proven systems and parts on Corvette C8 and soon C8Z06 systems.
So Fabspeed Motorsport USA quality , engineering , design, durability , power, increases and sportscar sound are unparalleled . Innovation not imitation. AskSharky !
NASCAR CUP owners personal C8Z06 hopefully will be delivered soon to our facility. Perhaps we can again race a sports car against a light JET.
This time a C8Z06 with HJS 200 cell cats and a titanium Valved Helical exhaust. All built in house by craftsmen and craftswomen using fiber laser welding.
Not here to offend anyone. GT2RS v Eclipse Jet.
Next C8Z06 flat plane crank 700+ HP howling to 8600rpm on the runway. A C8Z06 will sound simply incredible with a set of HJS GERMAN katalaysators that flow the equivalent of 93% of a straight pipe with no CEL lights no fault codes. C8Z06 will be an event versus the 2011 Twin Turbo that sounds like a Dyson vacuum on steroids. Nothing sounds as good as a high strung 4 valve ICE engine redlining . Enjoy >
You are so right. The Ferrari 458 update is a bit delayed, but that is to be expected as its so big and badder and nastier. Enjoy your updated 356 replica. Get one of those hats to go with it.
Incidentally the new upside down bathtub car has a production run coming of 2.5 years with 2,000 coming to the USA. In So-Cal they have a $100,000.00 ADM for the available cars...KInda sad it starts at $141,000.00....makes it tough to talk "Value".
When I got my C8 a couple of years ago I was looking at Fabspeed for exhaust options. Went to my local Porsche/Exotic tuning shop that is very much a track oriented group that regularly tunes cars for executives, sports team owners, etc. here in the Silicon Valley area. They run their cars hard in track and racing environments and have many years of experience. When I told them I was thinking of getting a Fabspeed exhaust, they told me they would never recommend it for their customers and advised me to wait for other options. When I asked why they said Fabspeed is usually first to market but in their experience, their products aren’t built with the quality that their track oriented clientele would expect. They viewed them as a company that is good at marketing with an emphasis on being first to market. They were not at all impressed with the quality of the Fabspeed products that had come through their shop.
I never thought about it much after that, but I’d have to say the way Fabspeed shills on this forum only gives further credence to everything my local tuner told me. Just my opinion, but if Fabspeed is trying to grow their Corvette market, they haven’t done themselves any favors here. I know when I get my Z06 they won’t even be on the radar.[/QUOTE]
==================
WOW you guys take it personally when you should not. Information is good and factual.
GM needs to follow through, build and deliver the wonderful awesome car the C8Z06 represents
. I got a CALL from my Porsche dealer and I could not believe GT4RS cars were actually being delivered. They requested i bring over one the very best last Aircooled cars and my GT4 for a photo shoot. I shared it as its news to all regardless of sportscar preferences .
Jealousy in these tuning world exists and the “shop you are likely quoting as bigtime is a small Porsche only outfit with a big ego. QUALITY and durability at Fabspeed are the ultimate.
HJS Emissions technology Menden Germany appointed Fabspeed as their exclusive importer of catalytic converters and Helical UK also appointed Fabspeed as their exclusive importer of super quality exhaust valves for North & South America. These type of parts racing components are used on McLaren, Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini , Pagani, Keo****segg and Porsche and our engineers use these parts on Corvette C8 and soon C8Z06 systems. So Fabspeed Motorsport usa quality , engineering , design, durability , power, increases and sportscar sound are unparalleled . Innovation not imitation. AskSharky !
NASCAR CUP owners C8Z06 hopefully will be delivered soon to our facility. Perhaps we can again race a sports car against a light JET. This time a C8Z06 with HJS 200 cell cats and a titanium Valved Helical exhaust. All built in house by craftsmen and craftswomen using fiber laser welding.
Not here to offend anyone. GT2RS v Eclipse Jet. Next C8Z06 flat plane crank 700+ HP howling to 8600rpm on the runway.
The shop I deal with is not a small shop and they do every kind of exotic that you can name. They tune cars for executives of tech companies, owners of the major sports franchises, athletes, etc. out here in Silicon Valley, which if you don’t know, has a huge concentration of wealth and high end cars. They have no reason to be jealous and happily recommend all sorts of companies’ products with which they have no affiliation. They are hardcore track guys as well that run programs for their clients. They just didn’t have good experiences with your products. I’m a longtime customer and they simply gave me their candid opinion. It doesn’t mean their opinion is fact.
As for me, I don’t take it personally. I’ll be the first to tell you that until the C8 I was almost exclusively a fan of German cars, including Porsche. I was one of those people who would never consider a Corvette. I continue to have my reservations about the C8 despite having owned a Stingray and waiting on a Z06. While the shop did affect my decision to not buy the Fabspeed setup, it is entirely your companies’ posts here that have made me feel like your company isn’t one that I would want to ever use. It’s one thing to be a regular forum coming here to extol the virtues of Porsches nonstop, but this forum has enough of that. Coming from a company it’s just spam. Thoughtful contributions are one thing, but you guys just bring all your marketing hyperbole and endless cheerleading. If as a company selling Corvette products, you don’t realize how your posts here would be off putting, that in itself gives me reason to pause. Plenty of other members will feel differently and I respect that. I wish your company nothing but success. I’m just being frank with you about the impression you have made on me.
The shop I deal with is not a small shop and they do every kind of exotic that you can name. They tune cars for executives of tech companies, owners of the major sports franchises, athletes, etc. out here in Silicon Valley, which if you don’t know, has a huge concentration of wealth and high end cars. They have no reason to be jealous and happily recommend all sorts of companies’ products with which they have no affiliation. They are hardcore track guys as well that run programs for their clients. They just didn’t have good experiences with your products. I’m a longtime customer and they simply gave me their candid opinion. It doesn’t mean their opinion is fact.
As for me, I don’t take it personally. I’ll be the first to tell you that until the C8 I was almost exclusively a fan of German cars, including Porsche. I was one of those people who would never consider a Corvette. I continue to have my reservations about the C8 despite having owned a Stingray and waiting on a Z06. While the shop did affect my decision to not buy the Fabspeed setup, it is entirely your companies’ posts here that have made me feel like your company isn’t one that I would want to ever use. It’s one thing to be a regular forum coming here to extol the virtues of Porsches nonstop, but this forum has enough of that. Coming from a company it’s just spam. Thoughtful contributions are one thing, but you guys just bring all your marketing hyperbole and endless cheerleading. If as a company selling Corvette products, you don’t realize how your posts here would be off putting, that in itself gives me reason to pause. Plenty of other members will feel differently and I respect that. I wish your company nothing but success. I’m just being frank with you about the impression you have made on me.
100% agreed.
It doesn’t help that he constantly makes loaded statements either about women as a whole (that I myself have even pointed out in the past).
He used the comparison of choosing a PTS GT4RS or C8 Z51 as being the same choice of.. “Would you rather date a hot blonde super leggy Victoria Secret model or a fat obese 300lb hip hop star”. His words, not mine. You can imagine and draw comparisons to what he meant by that for yourselves. I choose to not support that kind of behavior and will do so with my wallet.
Take that as you will. I already decided to go with Dundon for my GT3 pipes instead long ago (praying for the allocation still!)
It’s one thing to be a regular forum coming here to extol the virtues of Porsches nonstop, but this forum has enough of that. Coming from a company it’s just spam. Thoughtful contributions are one thing, but you guys just bring all your marketing hyperbole and endless cheerleading. If as a company selling Corvette products, you don’t realize how your posts here would be off putting, that in itself gives me reason to pause. Plenty of other members will feel differently and I respect that. I wish your company nothing but success. I’m just being frank with you about the impression you have made on me.
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. Joefab would do much better with his constant Porsche fanboy posts and videos on Rennlist. Most of those posts literally read like they came straight from Porsche's marketing. Well I'm not surprised since he stated he is very close to Porsche management and has business arrangements with them.
Or perhaps it's because he realizes the C8 Z06 doesn't need an exhaust (it's already loud and tuned to perfection), so he's trying to convert people to the underwhelming sound of stock Porsches where he can sell them something? Jk.
And full disclosure, I have driven the GT4RS on the track a year ago and I loved the car. For a few minutes I was just so taken by it that I had to have one, because it was a perfect driving low horsepower fun car that was not at the 911 price point. Then "surprise" I found out that it was at a 911 price point anyway. If Porsche could sell that car with all options for $85,000.00 it would be great. But it costs more than twice that. Advantage Corvette.
Ok. So I decided to look at the Fabspeed video. That type of jet is the lowest powered personal 4 passenger biz jet on the market and is a pretty neat little efficient plane. I haven't flown one. But that low pass, the proximity to spectators on the field and the "racing" against a car on the runway is/was extremely risky and silly. The best the car can do is about 150 mph on a runway...the jet 265 and is limited by its red line after that. What does it prove? A jet at that low speed that close to the ground is not in its best handling mode, so good on the pilot for not killing anyone. But that pilot would be violated in an instant if his or her name was out there.
Last edited by international blue; 10-19-2022 at 11:58 AM.
10-17-2022, 10:34 PM
Jk.