C8 ZR1 Demand speculation
09-10-2023, 12:35 AM
#21
Le Mans Master
ZR1 price will be high, but output will be low, so it will hold its value. The interesting thing is there is a split in demand. I think most ZR1 buyers want an 800 HP TT car, but others want the LT6 plus AWD. Both would be 800 HP cars, but at that price level, not many are ambivalent about that choice. There will be ZR1 buyers that will drop because the car isn't what they want.
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09-10-2023, 01:15 AM
#22
Drifting
Member Since: Oct 2013
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2018 C7 of Year Finalist
It's not even that they die often, many performance hybrids actually disengage the electrical assist above a certain speed. So up top they don't pull as hard as you'll all of a sudden be down 100+hp in a race, yet still carrying all that extra weight as you said.
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09-10-2023, 02:04 AM
#23
/\ That is why I would never consider an Eray. Dead weight when not charged = < Stingray performance.
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09-10-2023, 02:53 AM
#24
09-10-2023, 08:33 AM
#25
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09-10-2023, 01:09 PM
#26
Race Director
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2022 Corvette of the Year Finalist -- Modified
2021 C6 of the Year Winner - Modified
Finalist 2020 C7 of the Year -- Modified
2020 C6 of the Year Finalist - Modified
MSRP in writing. Dealer does not sell above MSRP for any new vehicle. Also has fixed dealer fee under $100 for active and retired military. He may or may not get the allocation. If he does, I'm first. They sold 4 Z06s for 2023 all at MSRP.
Last edited by Tally Ho; 09-10-2023 at 04:06 PM.
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09-12-2023, 04:04 PM
#27
I think there will be some demand and wait at first, but the market for a 150k-200k Corvette isn't huge. Suspect by second model year won't be that hard to get them (unless first year is very slow ramp up). The value proposition becomes less, because you keep inching closer to other cars. A Z06 at 100k+ less than a GT3 RS probably doesn't have a ton of cross-shoppers, and optioned likewise is still a good bit cheaper than a Porsche GT3. The ZR1 will overlap a GT3, although I'm sure it will be faster. Going to be hard to convince someone who isn't a Corvette loyalest to get one. Factor in interest rates and you really start to limit the buyer pool. There's enough Corvette folks to sell a bunch, just don't think it is going to be a 5 year wait list. Not sure the E-ray will have a super long wait list either, even though it's probably a more appropriate car than the Z06 for most.
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LE MANSZ (09-12-2023)
09-12-2023, 07:03 PM
#29
So, you go into 200k worth of fixed debt paid with after tax non tax deductible money because you hope you can cover the spread at a 10%-15% return somewhere else? That’s preposterous unless your some sort of financial genius that can do that year after year. If you hold that answer please let me know how to do that. If you can document your success I’ll gladly pay you for that information. I pay cash for everything thing I buy except for a partial mortgage on my house and acreage at 2.95% which is a no brainer. I have a significant amount of commercial rental properties that I always paid off on the 1st 5 year balloon payment if I didn’t pay cash for it to start with and I am always on the lookout for more to buy but the market is only paying about a 4.5% CAP rate on national single tenant properties that want to lock you into 20 year terms that only pay if your lucky maybe a 2%-2.5% rental increase every 5 years. With commercial loan rates in the 7.5% to 10%+ right now that knocks out making any money in real estate and in fact is a losing proposition unless you think you can somehow sell that property to someone else that wants to lose money. I have a 8 digit stock market portfolio that has brought in a 8.5% return so far this year but if you’ve been in the market as long as I have you always know it doesn’t take much to crash the market like it has several times in the past 20 years. The Donald Trump era was absolutely great with returning 26%-28% annual returns but that was just a fluke that I don’t see returning anytime soon and with the absolute idiots that are voting like the Democrats are some sort a football team or believe the constant parade of lies that come from their MSNBC and their ilk I hold no hope of ever seeing things ever returning to “normal” so the stock market even with my conservative portfolio is a risk. So the days of putting excess cash into it is no longer anything close to a guaranteed return. So, I’d really like to know how your going to beat a 6%+ loan with a spread anywhere.
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09-12-2023, 07:19 PM
#30
So, you go into 200k worth of fixed debt paid with after tax non tax deductible money because you hope you can cover the spread at a 10%-15% return somewhere else? That’s preposterous unless your some sort of financial genius that can do that year after year. If you hold that answer please let me know how to do that. If you can document your success I’ll gladly pay you for that information. I pay cash for everything thing I buy except for a partial mortgage on my house and acreage at 2.95% which is a no brainer. I have a significant amount of commercial rental properties that I always paid off on the 1st 5 year balloon payment if I didn’t pay cash for it to start with and I am always on the lookout for more to buy but the market is only paying about a 4.5% CAP rate on national single tenant properties that want to lock you into 20 year terms that only pay if your lucky maybe a 2%-2.5% rental increase every 5 years. With commercial loan rates in the 7.5% to 10%+ right now that knocks out making any money in real estate and in fact is a losing proposition unless you think you can somehow sell that property to someone else that wants to lose money. I have a 8 digit stock market portfolio that has brought in a 8.5% return so far this year but if you’ve been in the market as long as I have you always know it doesn’t take much to crash the market like it has several times in the past 20 years. The Donald Trump era was absolutely great with returning 26%-28% annual returns but that was just a fluke that I don’t see returning anytime soon and with the absolute idiots that are voting like the Democrats are some sort a football team or believe the constant parade of lies that come from their MSNBC and their ilk I hold no hope of ever seeing things ever returning to “normal” so the stock market even with my conservative portfolio is a risk. So the days of putting excess cash into it is no longer anything close to a guaranteed return. So, I’d really like to know how your going to beat a 6%+ loan with a spread anywhere.
09-12-2023, 08:13 PM
#31
I'm sure you got that 10-15% last year when the S&P was down 20%. Sure you did. Nonsense.
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09ZR1 (09-12-2023)
09-13-2023, 12:10 AM
#32
And if my Aunt Charleen had a set of ***** I’d call her Uncle Charlie. I was talking about where to park 200k TODAY. The IRS allows a certain percentage of a tax free or tax deferred retirement portfolio as one option or a Family Trust Fund as I have done, when I see these just outrageous 200+ collector car collections the first thing that comes to my mind is not to wonder what he paid for all of them and/or the cost to properly store them and how stupid he is to do this. I usually just think the guy really really likes performance cars of all stripes and years.
09-13-2023, 09:05 AM
#33
Instructor
Those who should not own one
I like, and agree with, your strategy on debt and investing. However, I have met a number of seemingly smart people look at me crosswise when I told them that I paid off my home mortgage decades ago. They always talked about the stock market averaging 7-10%, and mortgage rates periodically being far below, and so they were better off investing rather than paying off their mortgage. Maybe so, but mortgage interest is not really deductible anymore, and like you said, the stock market is volatile. Also, I always suspected that instead of investing all of the money they could have used to pay off their mortgage, they really were just excess consuming. I have long viewed the philosophy of taking on debt so as to invest at a higher rate, really just a justification for taking on the debt, with over consumption being the underlying play.
Congratulations on your success!
09-13-2023, 09:52 AM
#34
If the rumors are true that the ZR1 will get an LT6 with hybrid assist, that will turn off a lot of people in my opinion. I think most would prefer a SC or TT engine without hybrid assist on the ZR1. A hybrid ZR1 will drive higher demand for the C8 ZO6 and especially the Z07 spec. If this hybrid rumor is true for the ZR1, people will be waiting a VERY long time to get allocations for a Z07 spec Z06. The demand for Z07 will skyrocket to double current rate
09-16-2023, 09:40 AM
#35
09-16-2023, 10:24 AM
#36
S&P was down 20% in 2022. The "I get my 15% every year" didn't work so well there. Fantasy land stuff.
No problem here as I could care less how anyone justifies borrowing money for a $150,000 toy that is depreciating in value. Fools game.
No problem here as I could care less how anyone justifies borrowing money for a $150,000 toy that is depreciating in value. Fools game.
09-16-2023, 11:14 AM
#37
Some people will get whichever one they can get first, as a result on being on either multiple lists are on lists for both cars at a dealership.
As for the price. We have witnessed that GM cannot keep up with demand, regardless of (current) prices. The same will be true of the ZR1.
Many will go into debt for "symbol" over substance. Others, who have the money, as has been the case with previous expensive exotics are learning to appreciate the "bargain" the Z06 remains and the same will be said of the ZR1. As a practical matter, I never understand who wants/needs and can safely drive 800+ hp on the street.
As for the price. We have witnessed that GM cannot keep up with demand, regardless of (current) prices. The same will be true of the ZR1.
Many will go into debt for "symbol" over substance. Others, who have the money, as has been the case with previous expensive exotics are learning to appreciate the "bargain" the Z06 remains and the same will be said of the ZR1. As a practical matter, I never understand who wants/needs and can safely drive 800+ hp on the street.
09-16-2023, 12:46 PM
#38
Some people will get whichever one they can get first, as a result on being on either multiple lists are on lists for both cars at a dealership.
As for the price. We have witnessed that GM cannot keep up with demand, regardless of (current) prices. The same will be true of the ZR1.
Many will go into debt for "symbol" over substance. Others, who have the money, as has been the case with previous expensive exotics are learning to appreciate the "bargain" the Z06 remains and the same will be said of the ZR1. As a practical matter, I never understand who wants/needs and can safely drive 800+ hp on the street.
As for the price. We have witnessed that GM cannot keep up with demand, regardless of (current) prices. The same will be true of the ZR1.
Many will go into debt for "symbol" over substance. Others, who have the money, as has been the case with previous expensive exotics are learning to appreciate the "bargain" the Z06 remains and the same will be said of the ZR1. As a practical matter, I never understand who wants/needs and can safely drive 800+ hp on the street.
09-16-2023, 10:10 PM
#39
Le Mans Master
The E-Ray battery system doesn't work like that. It won't ever 'die'. At 1.9kW (1.1 available), it is so tiny and charges so fast. It has power management strategies built in to ensure that you always have electric assist. It does shut down the fun at I believe 130mph, so I guess it is dead weight at that point.
09-16-2023, 10:24 PM
#40
Race Director
The ZR1 is not getting an LT6. Period.