Go Back  CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion > Off Topic > Other Cars
Reload this Page >

Debacle at NCM Motorsports Park reaches new low

Notices
Other Cars Non-Corvette Content, Daily Drivers, Winter Beaters, Work Trucks, Tow Vehicles, for sale

Debacle at NCM Motorsports Park reaches new low

 
Old 08-04-2017, 06:41 PM
  #21  
mschuyler
CF Senior Member
 
mschuyler's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2016
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Posts: 3,516
Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,000 Posts
Default

Seems to me the OP has an axe to grind. It's one thing to disagree with the NCM, but quite another to accuse people of crimes. As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
mschuyler is online now  
Old 08-04-2017, 08:58 PM
  #22  
woodsguy
CF Senior Member
 
woodsguy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Huntsville Tx
Posts: 365
Thanked 53 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Life style and family traits have way more to do with her health than a little extra noise. Geeze.
woodsguy is offline  
Old 08-04-2017, 09:10 PM
  #23  
White Out
CF Senior Member
 
White Out's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2007
Posts: 996
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Default

TIL not everyone likes loud noises.
White Out is offline  
Old 08-05-2017, 07:04 AM
  #24  
Crossed Flags Fan
CF Senior Member
 
Crossed Flags Fan's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2006
Location: Make America Great-Remove Trump!
Posts: 2,734
Thanked 230 Times in 149 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DickieDoo View Post
Might be more cost effective to give the home owners new windows and AC. Good windows can eliminate a lot of noise. And I'm sure most have AC already, but for those that don't... give them AC.

BESIDES in a few years, electric corvettes won't make ANY noise !
Some people like spend time out doors not locked up in their house....
Glad the homeowner in question received a settlement and will be moving.
If the NCM put in their development plan to do a sound reducing wall then they are not in compliance. Earth berms and trees are not acceptable alternatives. They lied.
I think it's important for someone to TELL THE TRUTH and expose the facts - as most of us were taught to do.
I'll leave it at that...
Crossed Flags Fan is offline  
Old 08-05-2017, 10:06 AM
  #25  
savewave
Administrator
 
savewave's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Lakeland TN
Posts: 54,914
Thanked 290 Times in 118 Posts
CI 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '19
NCM Lifetime Member
NCM Sinkhole Donor

Default

Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn View Post
,,, I don't think the OP's conclusion that Wendel Strode lied under oath is valid. At the time the testimony was given the plans may well have been to build the wall. If so the he didn't lie. As we all know due to a lot of considerations and situations over time plans change. Some times they change for the better some times for the worse (that is when it seemed like a good idea at the time statement comes out).

The only way he lied under oath is if he knew at the time of his testimony the wall wasn't going to be built by the following March as he testified. ...


I don't think Wendel would lie under oath.

Glad to hear the case has been settled.
savewave is offline  
Old 08-05-2017, 04:42 PM
  #26  
rbl
CF Senior Member
 
rbl's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: Ozark, Alabama
Posts: 1,912
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Are you a paid staffer at the NCM?

Your characterization of OP is totally unreasonable and certainly unjustified. You come across as having a bone to pick and seem to be suggesting he should be banned from the facility. Do you think the NCM has acted in good faith with the county or community - at any time - regarding noise abatement at the MSP?

I wonder if the MSP pays any business or property taxes on the new empire?
rbl is offline  
Old 08-05-2017, 05:08 PM
  #27  
AdamK1911
Junior Member
 
Member Since: May 2014
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by rbl View Post
Are you a paid staffer at the NCM?

Your characterization of OP is totally unreasonable and certainly unjustified. You come across as having a bone to pick and seem to be suggesting he should be banned from the facility. Do you think the NCM has acted in good faith with the county or community - at any time - regarding noise abatement at the MSP?

I wonder if the MSP pays any business or property taxes on the new empire?
I am not a paid staffer of the NCM, and it would seem to me per previous statements made by the OP that he is the one with the bone to pick with the NCM and the MSP. I think if you have been to the MSP recently it is quite obvious, that the sound dampening fence system, berm, building, and constant sound test/check of cars running would in fact imply that they are trying to act in good faith. As far as taxes being paid, that is something I have no knowledge of. What I do have knowledge of us that the neighbors have been settled with in court, and that both sides have agreed that all is well. The Crumps received a healthy price for their property, so to go on about how horrible the NCM is for having agreed to pay far more than an appraised value for said property would imply that someone else just wants to stir the proverbial pot.

Last edited by AdamK1911; 08-05-2017 at 05:14 PM.
AdamK1911 is offline  
Old 08-06-2017, 09:49 AM
  #28  
rbl
CF Senior Member
 
rbl's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: Ozark, Alabama
Posts: 1,912
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AdamK1911 View Post
I am not a paid staffer of the NCM, and it would seem to me per previous statements made by the OP that he is the one with the bone to pick with the NCM and the MSP. I think if you have been to the MSP recently it is quite obvious, that the sound dampening fence system, berm, building, and constant sound test/check of cars running would in fact imply that they are trying to act in good faith. As far as taxes being paid, that is something I have no knowledge of. What I do have knowledge of us that the neighbors have been settled with in court, and that both sides have agreed that all is well. The Crumps received a healthy price for their property, so to go on about how horrible the NCM is for having agreed to pay far more than an appraised value for said property would imply that someone else just wants to stir the proverbial pot.

Good to hear you want to deal in the facts. They are clearly laid out in this thread by the only other person with the willingness to tell it straight. I still maintain when the toilet is flushed the community has a chance at a result. And BTW it is far from settled. The community agreed to a settlement in court and to my knowledge that STILL has not been complied with by the NCM.

This thread last few posts:
NCM information
rbl is offline  
Old 08-06-2017, 01:13 PM
  #29  
AdamK1911
Junior Member
 
Member Since: May 2014
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by rbl View Post
Good to hear you want to deal in the facts. They are clearly laid out in this thread by the only other person with the willingness to tell it straight. I still maintain when the toilet is flushed the community has a chance at a result. And BTW it is far from settled. The community agreed to a settlement in court and to my knowledge that STILL has not been complied with by the NCM.

This thread last few posts:
NCM information
Good thing you're interpreting "your understanding" as fact... better yet why let the simplicities of those in Kentucky venture down to Prt Charlotte Florida? Sounds to me like you hate the NCM management staff and that's fine, Tom obviously hates the track and is the master of the neighboring puppets so why not just leave well enough alone, the Crumps were bought out, noise has no bearing on diabetes, the Clark circle residents accepted the terms of the settlement so once the Crumps property is closed on as agreed to there's no further issue. Enjoy the beach!
AdamK1911 is offline  
Old 08-06-2017, 02:26 PM
  #30  
BEZ06
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
BEZ06's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Daytona Beach FL
Posts: 10,915
Thanked 756 Times in 548 Posts
Default

That parallel thread in the AutoX/Roadrace section that rbl has a link to has some good analysis of the problem. Here's a link to a post over there from a first-hand and up-close observation of what went on during the development of the plans and the initial construction:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1595301721


I've been concerned about what the NCM failed to do from the time I first heard rumblings of problems when I instructed at the inaugural HPDE in Sept 2014. I was surprised that they would not do what they had agreed to do.

Oh well....I guess it's all getting slowly, and probably expensively, settled!!

It is a GREAT track!!

.
BEZ06 is offline  
Old 08-06-2017, 06:48 PM
  #31  
NVR2L8
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
NVR2L8's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: Bowling Green KY
Posts: 1,610
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Default

I would only ask that those who are interested in the effect of stress on diabetes would do a little basic research before stating "your" facts.

In my original post, I did not state a definitive cause, I simply stated that "studies show", and provided a link for all to read. I also stated that "there was no way to assert a 100% correlation". Words matter.

http://www.healthline.com/health/dia...ress#overview1

Diabetes management is a lifelong process. This can add stress to your daily life. Stress can be a major barrier to effective glucose control. Stress hormones in your body may directly affect glucose levels. If you’re experiencing stress or feeling threatened, your body reacts. This is called the fight-or-flight response. This response elevates your hormone levels and causes your nerve cells to fire.

During this response, your body releases adrenaline and cortisol into your bloodstream and your respiratory rates increase. Your body directs blood to the muscles and limbs, allowing you to fight the situation. Your body may not be able to process the glucose released by your firing nerve cells if you have diabetes. If you can’t convert the glucose into energy, it builds up in the bloodstream. This causes your blood glucose levels to rise.

Constant stress from long-term problems with blood glucose can also wear you down mentally and physically. This may make managing your diabetes difficult.
NVR2L8 is offline  
Old 08-06-2017, 10:25 PM
  #32  
NVR2L8
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
NVR2L8's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: Bowling Green KY
Posts: 1,610
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Default

My goal for the NCM Motorsports Park has not changed since the fall of 2008, when Wendell and a couple of board members asked me to do a research project regarding the feasibility of developing a motorsports park. It took me six months of constant research, visiting almost 20 tracks, talking to track owners and operators, including meeting with Alan Wilson at Miller Motorsports Park. In April of 2009, I presented a Concept Plan with over 100 exhibits, making the case for the MSP. It became the roadmap for the project, at least until NCM management decided that they knew a better way.

My goal that has remained all along, including today, is that the NCM Motorsports will become a signature track in the U.S., one that people will drive 1000 miles to drive, one on everybody's "bucket list". The vision has not changed, but there are obstacles that must be overcome in order to get there.

For those who disagree, I respect your right to have a different opinion, sometimes we just have to "agree to disagree", hopefully without being hostile or offensive to one another.

I believe in people saying what they do ... and then doing what they say, especially when it comes to infringing on the rights of others. It has been said that "the true measure of a man's character is determined by how he treats those who are weaker or less fortunate".

My relationship with the neighbors began in 2013, when I started going door-to-door, assuring them that the NCM would be good neighbors.

In 2014, I decided to review all of the documents at the planning commission to make sure we were in compliance. I was stunned to learn that numerous deficiencies needed immediate attention, not the least of which was the acoustic berm required by the Detailed Development Plan and Binding Elements. I immediately brought this to the attention of Wendell, but instead of a positive reaction I was admonished via e-mail for visiting the planning commission and "raising red flags". I knew that we were in trouble. At that point, I knew that my only recourse was to go around Wendell and go straight to the NCM board of directors. I knew this would be the beginning of the end of my daily role with the MSP, but I felt that it was more important to protect the project than to protect myself.

It was not until 2015 that I learned that the berm that was committed to, designed by an acoustic engineer, was designated to be built on property that the NCM did not own. They had the piece of land (14 acres) on option, but they did not exercise that option until 3 years after they committed to build the berm BEFORE the track opened.

The berm that was built in 2015 was not "designed by an acoustic engineer", as required by the DDP, but rather by obtaining a simple grading permit. The NCM even stated that the berm was built for "visualization" purposes, so the neighbors could not see the track, and not for acoustic purposes.

The second acoustic expert retained by the NCM in 2015, Bowlby and Associates, reviewed the berm and reported that the berm would have "no significant decrease" in the noise reduction on Clark Circle. Wendell would later testify that Bowlby had "signed off" on the berm, whatever that means. In fact, the only statement made by Bowlby on the record is that the berm would help "some". Great science at work. "Some" could mean .01 dBa. I can hold a piece of paper in front of my mouth and reduce the sound "some".

The same is true about the Acoustifence placed on the fences at the MSP.
http://www.acoustiblok.com/acoustical_fence.php

Reading the web site, they make no claims about decibel reduction, and the product is most effective for sounds under 60 Hz. I am sure some of you know what the frequency range is for a car at 6500 rpms.

In fairness, I conducted a Acoustifence test in an area where I could make a noise both where the product was installed, and then make the identical noise where there was none. Behind the fence was 88,2 dBa, and with no protection was 87.4 dBa, a difference of .8 decibels, not even perceptible to the human ear.

I will explain more later.


Last edited by NVR2L8; 08-06-2017 at 10:29 PM.
NVR2L8 is offline  
Old 08-07-2017, 12:14 AM
  #33  
NVR2L8
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
NVR2L8's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: Bowling Green KY
Posts: 1,610
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Yes, I unapologetically support the Residents Against Motorsports Track Noise, LLC. I support them like I would a family member. I support them because I made promises to them that the NCM MSP would be a good neighbor. I support them because they have been abused by the NCM for more than five years. I had to make a decision as to whether I wanted to be part of the problem ... or part of the solution, and I chose the latter.

I have joined the efforts of all of the citizens of Bowling Green and Warren County, as representatives of the people by and through the BGWC Planning Commission who have done everything within their power to get the MSP to adhere to the commitments to the the citizens.

A question was raised earlier in this thread, paraphrased as: We are in compliance, so what is the point of this discussion?

The MSP is not in compliance, the Planning Commission is investigating new violations at this time, and new enforcement action is anticipated.

As to the point of this thread, "Sunshine is the best disenfectant". I am a lifetime member of the NCM, One Acre Club member (and founder), and as of the Grand Opening the MSP, I was one largest donors to the project.

Tomorrow this controversy will reach a new audience, and the following is a "sneak preview".


Bowling Green, Kentucky: An Obnoxiously Loud Race Track

Noise Free America: A Coalition to Promote Quiet
For immediate release
August 7, 2017
Contact:
Tom Blair
[email protected]
270-796-7500
Ted Rueter
877-664-7366
[email protected]

Chapel Hill: The National Corvette Museum in Bowling Green, Kentucky has won this month’s Noisy Dozen award from Noise Free America:

A Coalition to Promote Quiet for building an obnoxiously loud race track within a few hundred feet of a neighborhood—and not even bothering to do an acoustic study before construction. Neighbors hear noise levels as high as 90 decibels.

The National Corvette Museum Motorsports Park was conceived in 2008 and fundraising began in 2009. Ignoring professional design experts, the project was overseen by National Corvette Museum executives, none of whom had ever been involved with building or operating a track. In fact, not a single subcontractor on the project had ever built a track, either.

The original zoning hearing was held in March 2012, and there was a tremendous opposition by the neighborhood and surrounding property owners. The National Corvette Museum wanted no restrictions on hours of operation or noise. The Bowling Green/ Warren County planning commission denied their request and added language that there would be no significant increase in noise to the surrounding property owners.

The National Corvette Museum fought the planning commission at every turn, and refused to comply with the zoning ordinance, binding elements and conditions of approval. The most egregious violation was their failure to construct a noise abatement structure between the track and the adjacent neighborhood. They even failed to obtain a “certificate of occupancy” before opening the track in August 2014.

Neighbor complaints began immediately, but the National Corvette Museum did nothing to resolve the problems. In June 2015, the city/ county planning commission voted unanimously to issue a “certificate of violation” and ordered the track to cease operations. The National Corvette Museum refused to close, and appealed the order to the Bowling Green/ Warren county Code Enforcement Board, which also voted unanimously to enforce the “cease and desist” order. At this hearing, Wendell Strode, executive director of the museum, conceded that “I would not want this track in my back yard.” The National Corvette Museum appealed to the Warren County District Court, and the case remains unsettled.

In July 2015, the neighbors began to organize. They formed “Residents Against Motorsports Park Noise,” created a Facebook page, and retained legal counsel. A lawsuit was filed in Warren County Circuit Court, including the request for a temporary injunction against the track. The residents were also joined by the Bowling Green Warren County Planning Commission, where their attorney argued that the lack of compliance by the National Corvette Museum was a blatant disregard of the rules which govern our society.

The case was heard by Judge John Grise in October 2015. The request for an injunction was denied, and the case was settled out of court. Terms of the settlement were not disclosed, but it is believed that substantial damages were paid to the neighbors by the track.

The neighbors never really sought monetary damages--they just wanted the peaceful enjoyment of their property, which is exactly what the museum promised them in 2012.

In March 2017, the National Corvette Museum presented an amended “detailed development plan” to the Bowling Green Warren County Planning Commission. It set forth the requirement for the track to install an online “community monitoring system,” with agreed-upon sound limits in the adjacent neighborhood. The system was required to be in place by July 1, 2017. The system is not in compliance with the amended development plan and the noise is significantly higher than the agreed upon level.

After five years, the National Corvette Museum has never been in compliance with either the original or amended development plan. Complaints are being made to the planning commission, and now enforcement action will start all over again.

The health consequences that have been created by the noise are a human tragedy. Ms. Betty Crump, 81 years old, is the closest resident to the track. Wendell Strode, executive director of the museum, testified in November 2015 that a noise abatement wall would be constructed between the track and her home by March 2016. The wall was never built, and in the fall of 2016 she was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. Noise causes stress--and stress is linked to the onset of diabetes.

Tom Blair, a supporter of Residents Against Motorsports Noise, stated that “the National Corvette Museum has asserted many times that they want to be a good neighbor, but their actions say more about what they want. They wanted to build a track with no restrictions and no oversight. They have done everything in their power to stall, appeal and litigate their noise problems with total disregard for the neighbors. They have used their community and political influence to put pressure on regulators to not enforce the zoning and development plan requirements.”

Blair concluded, “the residents of Clark Circle and Grimes Road are decent, hard-working people—the type of people who value community and are good neighbors. Many of them have lived in their homes for more than thirty years. There is a Baptist minister, a truck driver, a factory worker, a nurse, a social worker, a grocery store manager, a church volunteer, and many retirees. They do not own Corvettes or go on fancy vacations. They just want what we all want: to live in a quiet, peaceful environment. They want what they were promised in 2012—and they deserve no less.”

Noise Free America: A Coalition to Promote Quiet is a national citizens’ organization opposed to excessive noise. Past “winners” of the Noisy Dozen award include Louisville, Harley-Davidson, and Bikers for Trump.
###
NVR2L8 is offline  
Old 08-07-2017, 12:14 PM
  #34  
rbl
CF Senior Member
 
rbl's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: Ozark, Alabama
Posts: 1,912
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AdamK1911 View Post
Good thing you're interpreting "your understanding" as fact... better yet why let the simplicities of those in Kentucky venture down to Prt Charlotte Florida? Sounds to me like you hate the NCM management staff and that's fine, Tom obviously hates the track and is the master of the neighboring puppets so why not just leave well enough alone, the Crumps were bought out, noise has no bearing on diabetes, the Clark circle residents accepted the terms of the settlement so once the Crumps property is closed on as agreed to there's no further issue. Enjoy the beach!
Actually I'm from Alaska after 38 years and then rural SW Virginia for 16 and now FL for 5 - leaving for Alabama in 2 weeks.

I have been to the museum twice and owned 15 Corvettes since 1967 - People in KY are not stupid as you are implying.

No I don't hate NCM staff by any means. I hate bullies like the NCM has been in this instance and especially people who lie and do not live up to their word. A very simple concept to understand if you are taught it as a young person.

We do agree however, that diabetes is not a consideration. We all have stress and that simply is NOT a cause of diabetes.
rbl is offline  
Old 08-09-2017, 07:26 AM
  #35  
strand rider
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Dec 2011
Location: Redondo Beach CA
Posts: 3,393
Thanked 53 Times in 49 Posts
Default

perhaps the wall was always a fiction, sometimes developers do things and then let the lawyers settle things later.

It would have to be a heck of a wall. I was raised with Ascot park, a half mile dirt track, a good ways away, perhaps over ten miles away. Winged dirt track cars, you could hear them most week end nights when they ran.
strand rider is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 03:51 AM
  #36  
NVR2L8
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
NVR2L8's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: Bowling Green KY
Posts: 1,610
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by strand rider View Post
perhaps the wall was always a fiction, sometimes developers do things and then let the lawyers settle things later.

It would have to be a heck of a wall. I was raised with Ascot park, a half mile dirt track, a good ways away, perhaps over ten miles away. Winged dirt track cars, you could hear them most week end nights when they ran.
Actually, the wall proposed in 2015 by Bowlby and Associates, acoustic engineers, was to a height of 557' above sea level. The berm built by the NCM was 534.5'.

Thus, the wall proposed but never built, was 22.5'.

Last edited by NVR2L8; 08-10-2017 at 03:52 AM.
NVR2L8 is offline  
Old 08-16-2017, 08:23 AM
  #37  
TurboTnZ06
CF Senior Member
 
TurboTnZ06's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2000
Location: City of Turbo Buicks in Corvette County FL
Posts: 8,783
Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Noise free america? For real? In college when I lived next to the Daytona Speedway, I would open my windows, doors and while the race was on tv so I could hear all the awesomeness. Always gonna be complainers. If I didn't like where I lived, I'd move.
TurboTnZ06 is offline  
Old 08-16-2017, 09:09 AM
  #38  
falconhulk
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Oct 2016
Posts: 546
Thanks: 0
Thanked 83 Times in 62 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AORoads View Post
I have visited the track and surrounding homes, just to look at them. These are, as BEZ says, not brand new homes built after the track. If promises were made, the NCM has to do what it says it was going to do. I don't understand how any governmental agency can be giving them a pass on complying with what all sides agreed to.

Many tracks have noise restrictions. Many race and practice sessions have them, too. For those who want real-world cancellation of track events, history should teach the NCM board and staff a lesson. In 2002, Washington DC scheduled its first-ever auto racing event in a park-like setting---called it The Cadillac Grand Prix. It was a great event with American LeMans cars and other classes there. It was also the one and only year it happened. It was cancelled for noise, among other reasons. There was little-to-no effort made to for noise abatement.

Maybe noise isn't a serious issue to you, and maybe it has nothing to do with the diabetes onset in the neighbor to the NCM track. But take heed from those who can, and have effectively had events cancelled and been a part of imposing strict measures on tracks. Also note that your word, be it for an organization or a person, is supposed to mean something to everyone.


Hah hah, in a park like setting? I think you mean a parking lot setting? It was outside the old stadium. Noise was an excuse. The place held 50k+ fans and the traffic that went along with it weekly!!! The people in that area complained about the whole event. That sports car racing was for the rich and did not appeal to them. They complained about the people it brought in. It was a class warfare thing. The same thing happened to a lesser extent in Baltimore when the first race occurred. You are talking one race in a year and the practice run up. That was nothing like what is occurring here.
falconhulk is offline  
Old 08-16-2017, 03:11 PM
  #39  
Duntov7
CF Senior Member
 
Duntov7's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 488
Thanked 42 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by White Out View Post
TIL not everyone likes loud noises.
And.....the folks in Montreal seemed to enjoy in July the new "ePRIX" racing format from F1. Is it too quiet for some ? Maybe we should get back to skateboards.
Duntov7 is offline  
Old 08-16-2017, 03:49 PM
  #40  
68ragtop69
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
68ragtop69's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2006
Location: Severn Maryland
Posts: 2,840
Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
MD Events Coordinator
2015 C3 of Year Finalist
Cruise-In X Veteran
CI-X Car Show Winner
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17

Default

Originally Posted by mschuyler View Post
Seems to me the OP has an axe to grind. It's one thing to disagree with the NCM, but quite another to accuse people of crimes. As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
I'm glad that the Crumps reached a settlement and everyone is happy.......well except for the OP!
68ragtop69 is offline  
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Debacle at NCM Motorsports Park reaches new low


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: