Door/front fender fit with new front end pieces
06-20-2013, 09:47 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Door/front fender fit with new front end pieces
How do I correct this panel fit problem? When I put the new top surround and fenders on, the replacement fenders were much thicker than the eom fenders were. Some of the issue may be the gel coat applied to the new fenders. The fenders are from Corvette Image.
I'm not sure if I have to realign the doors to now match the fenders or maybe I just have to sand down the new fenders (alot) more. The eom fenders were "paper thin" going over the vertical bonding strip. Thanks for the help
I'm not sure if I have to realign the doors to now match the fenders or maybe I just have to sand down the new fenders (alot) more. The eom fenders were "paper thin" going over the vertical bonding strip. Thanks for the help
06-20-2013, 12:00 PM
#2
Drifting
TR--
How do the rear gaps look??? If the rear gaps are perfect, and this was mine, I'd contemplate:
1) Playing with shims and adjusting to see how close I could get the doors on "both" gaps...
2) Building up the front of the doors to match fenders (providing rear gaps are "perfect")
3) Judging by your hood on the other thread, would put the wiper tray on, and if that isn't a good fit, would consider "removing front clip", and get my gaps better before gluing clip back on... (I know, this would be a LOT of work)
Let's see what the experts recommend...
Rogman
How do the rear gaps look??? If the rear gaps are perfect, and this was mine, I'd contemplate:
1) Playing with shims and adjusting to see how close I could get the doors on "both" gaps...
2) Building up the front of the doors to match fenders (providing rear gaps are "perfect")
3) Judging by your hood on the other thread, would put the wiper tray on, and if that isn't a good fit, would consider "removing front clip", and get my gaps better before gluing clip back on... (I know, this would be a LOT of work)
Let's see what the experts recommend...
Rogman
06-20-2013, 06:22 PM
#3
Race Director
Shimming out on the hinges can be dangerous...due to the ability of the weatherstrip to obtain a good seal MAY be greatly lessened. But if you are using the dense, crappy weatherstrips offered now-a-days by "some" companies...that might not be a bad thing. Just DO NOT forget to take into account your door weatherstrips if you start to "play" with the door hinge shims...OR you MIGHT BE SORRY!!! A trick I use is tape,modeling clay and wax paper to check gaps for the door weatherstrips. A time consuming process for me but I hated it (in the past) when I was all about finished with a job and installing the weatherstrip and had an issue. Just "food for thought"
Building out on the front edge of the door may be you only recourse. This is also depending if at the top of the door and the bottom of the door the door is flush with the top hood surround and fender.
I have also been through this also. Making sure that when the fender is held up against the vertical bonding strip...and the fender is flush with the door is sometimes a "party" to get correct...and YES ...often times the amount of adhesive in this area is VERY thin due to how the vertical bonding strip was placed and how "other things" came together. More times than not...bonding adhesive is really thin at the vertical bonding strip at the center to lower area of the fender where it meets the door. I have moved this vertical bonding strip so allow a slightly thicker "bead" of adhesive...especially when installing a one-piece front clip.
DUB
Building out on the front edge of the door may be you only recourse. This is also depending if at the top of the door and the bottom of the door the door is flush with the top hood surround and fender.
I have also been through this also. Making sure that when the fender is held up against the vertical bonding strip...and the fender is flush with the door is sometimes a "party" to get correct...and YES ...often times the amount of adhesive in this area is VERY thin due to how the vertical bonding strip was placed and how "other things" came together. More times than not...bonding adhesive is really thin at the vertical bonding strip at the center to lower area of the fender where it meets the door. I have moved this vertical bonding strip so allow a slightly thicker "bead" of adhesive...especially when installing a one-piece front clip.
DUB
06-20-2013, 09:51 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
I suspect an all options approach may be in order here. As DUB has mentioned, shimming the doors outward may compromise weatherstrip sealing, and will also require refitting your windows since they will move with the doors.
Thinning the fenders is a limited thing since the discrepency in fit is large,,, but I would thin them a bit so they look more like "factory" panels.
Adding thickness to the doors will cure the gaps but the thickness will be apparent and look odd if that'sa ll you do to fix this so I recommend a bit of each to split the differences among several areas... or disbond the thing and refit it all again?? Your choice.
Thinning the fenders is a limited thing since the discrepency in fit is large,,, but I would thin them a bit so they look more like "factory" panels.
Adding thickness to the doors will cure the gaps but the thickness will be apparent and look odd if that'sa ll you do to fix this so I recommend a bit of each to split the differences among several areas... or disbond the thing and refit it all again?? Your choice.
06-22-2013, 09:56 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
TR--
How do the rear gaps look??? If the rear gaps are perfect, and this was mine, I'd contemplate:
1) Playing with shims and adjusting to see how close I could get the doors on "both" gaps...
2) Building up the front of the doors to match fenders (providing rear gaps are "perfect")
3) Judging by your hood on the other thread, would put the wiper tray on, and if that isn't a good fit, would consider "removing front clip", and get my gaps better before gluing clip back on... (I know, this would be a LOT of work)
Let's see what the experts recommend...
Rogman
How do the rear gaps look??? If the rear gaps are perfect, and this was mine, I'd contemplate:
1) Playing with shims and adjusting to see how close I could get the doors on "both" gaps...
2) Building up the front of the doors to match fenders (providing rear gaps are "perfect")
3) Judging by your hood on the other thread, would put the wiper tray on, and if that isn't a good fit, would consider "removing front clip", and get my gaps better before gluing clip back on... (I know, this would be a LOT of work)
Let's see what the experts recommend...
Rogman
) Rogman,1st - when I bonded the top surround and fenders on, I got it as good as it gets. Problem was the thickness of the front fenders compared to oem. When I bought the fenders they (FWIW) didn't have "GM Restoration" parts available. I bought them from Ecklers but they came from Corvette Image. I don't know, and it's too late now, if "thinner" fenders were available from other suppliers.
2nd - rear gaps are good. I put new body mounts on and got them pretty good. In fact, they didn't change much or at all from when the original body mounts were in.
Thanks,
Fred
06-22-2013, 10:08 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Shimming out on the hinges can be dangerous...due to the ability of the weatherstrip to obtain a good seal MAY be greatly lessened. But if you are using the dense, crappy weatherstrips offered now-a-days by "some" companies...that might not be a bad thing. Just DO NOT forget to take into account your door weatherstrips if you start to "play" with the door hinge shims...OR you MIGHT BE SORRY!!! A trick I use is tape,modeling clay and wax paper to check gaps for the door weatherstrips. A time consuming process for me but I hated it (in the past) when I was all about finished with a job and installing the weatherstrip and had an issue. Just "food for thought"
Building out on the front edge of the door may be you only recourse. This is also depending if at the top of the door and the bottom of the door the door is flush with the top hood surround and fender.
I have also been through this also. Making sure that when the fender is held up against the vertical bonding strip...and the fender is flush with the door is sometimes a "party" to get correct...and YES ...often times the amount of adhesive in this area is VERY thin due to how the vertical bonding strip was placed and how "other things" came together. More times than not...bonding adhesive is really thin at the vertical bonding strip at the center to lower area of the fender where it meets the door. I have moved this vertical bonding strip so allow a slightly thicker "bead" of adhesive...especially when installing a one-piece front clip.
DUB
Building out on the front edge of the door may be you only recourse. This is also depending if at the top of the door and the bottom of the door the door is flush with the top hood surround and fender.
I have also been through this also. Making sure that when the fender is held up against the vertical bonding strip...and the fender is flush with the door is sometimes a "party" to get correct...and YES ...often times the amount of adhesive in this area is VERY thin due to how the vertical bonding strip was placed and how "other things" came together. More times than not...bonding adhesive is really thin at the vertical bonding strip at the center to lower area of the fender where it meets the door. I have moved this vertical bonding strip so allow a slightly thicker "bead" of adhesive...especially when installing a one-piece front clip.
DUB
) DUB,Thanks for the info about shimming and weatherstripping - I will take it to heart.
Based on what you have said, what I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE DONE (but it's too late now) is grind down the lower oem vertical bonding strip and underneath it, then put in a new vertical bonding strip, to account for the thickness in the new replacement fenders. The top part of the fenders are good - they "pretty much" line up with doors. Problem is below the belt line. When bonding the fenders, I put the adhesive on and then attached the 2 lower bolts that went thru the bottom of the fenders - so I assume all excess adhesive oozed out. What I'm saying is that I don't thick I put too much adhesive on. I used the SEM stuff so it could ooze out if pressure was put on it.
Looks like I will sand down the fender (that is below the belt line) as much as I think reasonable and then build out the bottom of the door. Hopefully, when I sand down the fender I will not have to build out the door "too" much.
Thanks, Fred
06-22-2013, 10:11 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I suspect an all options approach may be in order here. As DUB has mentioned, shimming the doors outward may compromise weatherstrip sealing, and will also require refitting your windows since they will move with the doors.
Thinning the fenders is a limited thing since the discrepency in fit is large,,, but I would thin them a bit so they look more like "factory" panels.
Adding thickness to the doors will cure the gaps but the thickness will be apparent and look odd if that'sa ll you do to fix this so I recommend a bit of each to split the differences among several areas... or disbond the thing and refit it all again?? Your choice.
Thinning the fenders is a limited thing since the discrepency in fit is large,,, but I would thin them a bit so they look more like "factory" panels.
Adding thickness to the doors will cure the gaps but the thickness will be apparent and look odd if that'sa ll you do to fix this so I recommend a bit of each to split the differences among several areas... or disbond the thing and refit it all again?? Your choice.
) markids,I will take the fenders down a bit with my 80 grit like mentioned to DUB above and will add to the doors but
there is NO WAY I'm disbonding this thing
Thanks Fred
06-22-2013, 05:46 PM
#8
Race Director
If you are planning on adding material to the doors ( below the belt line) as you stated is where the problem begins. I would do just that and you can also... when sanding the edge of the door where the filler will be really thick...taper it back in the inside edge so when the door is shut...and you look a the edge of where you applied filler to make it right...the edge of the panel will look close to factory and not be 1/4" thick...so to speak...as just a reference. I fix many this way due to "issues" that the car has and breaking panels loose and re-bonding is something the customer does not want to pay for.
I would add material to the door instead of trying to take away from the fender. This is because I would not want to weaken the fenders thickness by heavy sanding. A little is OK..but I would NOT grind on the edge of the fender to make it so you would not have to add a lot of filler on the door. But that is just me on how I would do it.
DUB
I would add material to the door instead of trying to take away from the fender. This is because I would not want to weaken the fenders thickness by heavy sanding. A little is OK..but I would NOT grind on the edge of the fender to make it so you would not have to add a lot of filler on the door. But that is just me on how I would do it.
DUB
06-22-2013, 06:53 PM
#9
Race Director
I know you don't want to hear it, but I would break the bonds loose, if it all possible, and redo it. We used Corvette image PM panels on mine also and I did not notice any difference in thickness compared to factory. If your old panel was thinner I suspect someone in the past got enthusiastic with a DA sander.
In fact, one of my rear quarters was NOS and the other Custom Image PM. They were absolutely identical. You could not tell the difference by looking at them. I've heard Custom Image bought old GM molds and I believe it after looking at the parts.
In fact, one of my rear quarters was NOS and the other Custom Image PM. They were absolutely identical. You could not tell the difference by looking at them. I've heard Custom Image bought old GM molds and I believe it after looking at the parts.
06-24-2013, 09:53 AM
#10
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I know you don't want to hear it, but I would break the bonds loose, if it all possible, and redo it. We used Corvette image PM panels on mine also and I did not notice any difference in thickness compared to factory. If your old panel was thinner I suspect someone in the past got enthusiastic with a DA sander.
In fact, one of my rear quarters was NOS and the other Custom Image PM. They were absolutely identical. You could not tell the difference by looking at them. I've heard Custom Image bought old GM molds and I believe it after looking at the parts.
In fact, one of my rear quarters was NOS and the other Custom Image PM. They were absolutely identical. You could not tell the difference by looking at them. I've heard Custom Image bought old GM molds and I believe it after looking at the parts.
Thanks for the reply but "redoing" it wouldn't make any difference (unless I bought new correctly made fenders). I'd be exactly where I am now. I guess you were either lucky with your panels or I was unlucky with mine. Here is where I first posted about the thickness of the panels (and I see you replied back then
):http://forums.corvetteforum.com/pain...post1581961236
Believe me when I tell you the oem panels were really thin and the CI replacements were 2-3X thicker. I didn't put the fenders on till 4 years after I bought them so didn't know of the bad fit until last Sept. when I installed them so I was SOOL with returning them to anyone. I called CI and he said I could sand them down to fit
. I bought the fenders from Ecklers and they were dropshipped from CI. No way I'm taking this thing apart again.Regards, Fred
Last edited by TWINRAY; 06-24-2013 at 09:57 AM.
06-24-2013, 10:00 AM
#11
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
If you are planning on adding material to the doors ( below the belt line) as you stated is where the problem begins. I would do just that and you can also... when sanding the edge of the door where the filler will be really thick...taper it back in the inside edge so when the door is shut...and you look a the edge of where you applied filler to make it right...the edge of the panel will look close to factory and not be 1/4" thick...so to speak...as just a reference. I fix many this way due to "issues" that the car has and breaking panels loose and re-bonding is something the customer does not want to pay for.
I would add material to the door instead of trying to take away from the fender. This is because I would not want to weaken the fenders thickness by heavy sanding. A little is OK..but I would NOT grind on the edge of the fender to make it so you would not have to add a lot of filler on the door. But that is just me on how I would do it.
DUB
I would add material to the door instead of trying to take away from the fender. This is because I would not want to weaken the fenders thickness by heavy sanding. A little is OK..but I would NOT grind on the edge of the fender to make it so you would not have to add a lot of filler on the door. But that is just me on how I would do it.
DUB
Regards, Fred
07-09-2013, 11:53 AM
#12
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Like a jerk, last year for the seams, I only bought a qt. of West Epoxy which I finished
. Since I need to do the door fill AND use it on the '67 I'm also doing, I bit the bullet this am and bought a Gallon and the appropriate amt of hardener $$$$
. Since I need to do the door fill AND use it on the '67 I'm also doing, I bit the bullet this am and bought a Gallon and the appropriate amt of hardener $$$$
07-10-2013, 11:52 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Ok, I should more or less finish the door/fender fit issue today. I resin and matted the right side
and sanded it
I would probably be OK but for added measure, I want to give it another layer or 2 and then sand it. It'll then be "really" flush with the fender. I'm doing the door gaps by measuring with a drill bit on the minimum side so that when I do my finishing, it'll still be well within specs.
I did the driver side yesterday and will sand that this afternoon. There should be enough on there so that it'll be flush after the sanding and will need no more applications.
Doncha just luv the pump arrangements on this stuff
no measuring
No problem with the mixture kicking over in this weather
Well, back to work
and sanded it
I would probably be OK but for added measure, I want to give it another layer or 2 and then sand it. It'll then be "really" flush with the fender. I'm doing the door gaps by measuring with a drill bit on the minimum side so that when I do my finishing, it'll still be well within specs.
I did the driver side yesterday and will sand that this afternoon. There should be enough on there so that it'll be flush after the sanding and will need no more applications.
Doncha just luv the pump arrangements on this stuff
no measuringNo problem with the mixture kicking over in this weather
Well, back to work
Last edited by TWINRAY; 07-10-2013 at 11:56 AM.
07-16-2013, 10:17 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I added 3” of fiberglass (widthwise) to the doors and block sanded for a flush fender fit. I used the file in my PST Leatherman and started cutting gaps. That worked out really well because the file blade was grooved on one top side so it acted like a saw blade. I used drill bits to set the gap, starting small and ending up with 11/64” (which miked
.167 on my HF digital caliper) for the front gaps and 5/32” for the rears. I then sat the car in the 95 degree sun to hopefully bake out all impurities in the new front end glass pieces including the glassed seams.
.167 on my HF digital caliper) for the front gaps and 5/32” for the rears. I then sat the car in the 95 degree sun to hopefully bake out all impurities in the new front end glass pieces including the glassed seams.
07-16-2013, 11:09 AM
#15
Race Director
Door gaps look nice. A trick to doing gaps is to stick a ~4" long piece of 80-grit self adhesive paper on a wood paint stick and drag it through the gap. Ends up just the right width.
You sure you have the gaps wide enough? Remember you will put primer & paint on them and they will shrink noticeably.
You sure you have the gaps wide enough? Remember you will put primer & paint on them and they will shrink noticeably.
07-16-2013, 11:16 AM
#16
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Door gaps look nice. A trick to doing gaps is to stick a ~4" long piece of 80-grit self adhesive paper on a wood paint stick and drag it through the gap. Ends up just the right width.
You sure you have the gaps wide enough? Remember you will put primer & paint on them and they will shrink noticeably.
You sure you have the gaps wide enough? Remember you will put primer & paint on them and they will shrink noticeably.
I had them the next drill size lower but was uncomfortable with that - you know how the front of the door swings close to the rear lip of the front fender. I will review this situation - thanks.
07-17-2013, 06:12 PM
#17
Race Director
Looks great.
Do not forget. That when you apply gelcoat, primer, sealer, paint and clear. These products will add to the panel and close up the gaps. I keep mine on the wide side...and when all is said and done...the gaps are really nice. But I also make a conscience effort to apply product to my edges because I am a freak about the edges of panels being really, really nice.
And for what it is worth...and I know that you probably do not want to read this...but I would grind down some of your fiberglass and then cover it with a filler like Fiberglass, Evercoat's Vette Panel Adhesive Part # 870 (quart) 880 (gallon)...or whatever you choose.
If you have small bubbles/pockets in your lamination.....that have either been exposed or are just below the surface and you can see them.... I would ( like I wrote) grind down the fiberglass a little bit and skim coat it with F/E's VPA. This is so when the car is outside in the future and it gets HOT...these bubbles in the glass can not grow and create a blister.
I do this on all of my lamination's NOW...because I have seen issues in the past on repairs that I did that I was not happy with. Apply AT LEAST the thickness ( after sanding) about that of a paper match stick. This is why I use the VPA because when it has cured...it is really hard...but still sand-able. And also why you really need to make sure that your thickness of your gelcoat over these lamination's is thick enough to try to keep things "down". If the gelcoat is not thick enough...it was a waste of time.
DUB
Do not forget. That when you apply gelcoat, primer, sealer, paint and clear. These products will add to the panel and close up the gaps. I keep mine on the wide side...and when all is said and done...the gaps are really nice. But I also make a conscience effort to apply product to my edges because I am a freak about the edges of panels being really, really nice.
And for what it is worth...and I know that you probably do not want to read this...but I would grind down some of your fiberglass and then cover it with a filler like Fiberglass, Evercoat's Vette Panel Adhesive Part # 870 (quart) 880 (gallon)...or whatever you choose.
If you have small bubbles/pockets in your lamination.....that have either been exposed or are just below the surface and you can see them.... I would ( like I wrote) grind down the fiberglass a little bit and skim coat it with F/E's VPA. This is so when the car is outside in the future and it gets HOT...these bubbles in the glass can not grow and create a blister.
I do this on all of my lamination's NOW...because I have seen issues in the past on repairs that I did that I was not happy with. Apply AT LEAST the thickness ( after sanding) about that of a paper match stick. This is why I use the VPA because when it has cured...it is really hard...but still sand-able. And also why you really need to make sure that your thickness of your gelcoat over these lamination's is thick enough to try to keep things "down". If the gelcoat is not thick enough...it was a waste of time.
DUB
07-22-2013, 10:25 AM
#18
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Looks great.
Do not forget. That when you apply gelcoat, primer, sealer, paint and clear. These products will add to the panel and close up the gaps. I keep mine on the wide side...and when all is said and done...the gaps are really nice. But I also make a conscience effort to apply product to my edges because I am a freak about the edges of panels being really, really nice.
And for what it is worth...and I know that you probably do not want to read this...but I would grind down some of your fiberglass and then cover it with a filler like Fiberglass, Evercoat's Vette Panel Adhesive Part # 870 (quart) 880 (gallon)...or whatever you choose.
If you have small bubbles/pockets in your lamination.....that have either been exposed or are just below the surface and you can see them.... I would ( like I wrote) grind down the fiberglass a little bit and skim coat it with F/E's VPA. This is so when the car is outside in the future and it gets HOT...these bubbles in the glass can not grow and create a blister.
I do this on all of my lamination's NOW...because I have seen issues in the past on repairs that I did that I was not happy with. Apply AT LEAST the thickness ( after sanding) about that of a paper match stick. This is why I use the VPA because when it has cured...it is really hard...but still sand-able. And also why you really need to make sure that your thickness of your gelcoat over these lamination's is thick enough to try to keep things "down". If the gelcoat is not thick enough...it was a waste of time.
DUB
Do not forget. That when you apply gelcoat, primer, sealer, paint and clear. These products will add to the panel and close up the gaps. I keep mine on the wide side...and when all is said and done...the gaps are really nice. But I also make a conscience effort to apply product to my edges because I am a freak about the edges of panels being really, really nice.
And for what it is worth...and I know that you probably do not want to read this...but I would grind down some of your fiberglass and then cover it with a filler like Fiberglass, Evercoat's Vette Panel Adhesive Part # 870 (quart) 880 (gallon)...or whatever you choose.
If you have small bubbles/pockets in your lamination.....that have either been exposed or are just below the surface and you can see them.... I would ( like I wrote) grind down the fiberglass a little bit and skim coat it with F/E's VPA. This is so when the car is outside in the future and it gets HOT...these bubbles in the glass can not grow and create a blister.
I do this on all of my lamination's NOW...because I have seen issues in the past on repairs that I did that I was not happy with. Apply AT LEAST the thickness ( after sanding) about that of a paper match stick. This is why I use the VPA because when it has cured...it is really hard...but still sand-able. And also why you really need to make sure that your thickness of your gelcoat over these lamination's is thick enough to try to keep things "down". If the gelcoat is not thick enough...it was a waste of time.
DUB
. I'm 
just about done with the added fiberglass and sanding issues. I had to do another application on the top of the drivers door yesterday. For those who like photos and thanks to my wife (who thinks I'm nuts) for the candid photo.